Arnold van Aerschot - FIX all around

I found another cloned line inserted yesterday, it has 13 cloned profiles (7 generation).
I have identified and written in the suffix the point of cut & graft, but no JPG, info, about or link inserted. You decide:

for solve merge Jan De Pape
whit Jan De Pape
and cut / report duplicate leftovers

So the merger may have been ill-advised; if so, mea culpa. You could have simply contacted me instead throwing a public fit. In any event, I was trying to harmonize existing geni “facts” with a series of Wikipedia articles. See, e.g., https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnout_III,_Count_of_Aarschot I think exising line is still confused, and hopefully any mistakes I may have made will help sort it out.

References should be within profiles and double checked with supporting genealogy data from a more studious source (often Wikipedia cites a source and that’s what we need to look at).

When I enter a profile, I see no place to enter my sources. Am I missing something? Likewise, when I view an existing profile, I rarely see any sources for the data. Again, am I missing something?

the first feeling is of attack, but instead it's a team rescue :D
There is no other way to fix things so old and delicate..
..insert link of the sources you follow on info-about profile.
kmon, you are not a noob, on GENI for 10 years with 13 thousand profiles inserted, be part of area FIX! :D

Arnold I, Count of Loon has a Curator Note from George Homs that warns against following Medlands for this family, however the Note is from 2014 while the Medlands page in question has been updated just a few months ago, so perhaps it is more useful than it was 5 years ago?

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.h...

As a starting point I would be using George's project https://www.geni.com/projects/Counts-de-Looz-van-Loon/4399 as a guide.

CUT & GRAFT on Jan De Pape executed..
..but it's all so pale white everywhere :\

Livio: My initial entries were some ten years ago; however, my account was largely dormant until April this year, after which I have made the vast bulk of my entries. I am still learning. I do not, however, make false statements. I am in the process of adding the father of: Christine Clementine Leonard The form that appears does not offer any place to insert sources; there is no space entitled “info about profile.”

Capt Henry Edward Heater,

You can add links to the about of a profile or add pictures and/or documents to the profile (documents can even be scans, adding them as document gives you more options). If you add documents you can use those as sources on the sources tab of the profile.
There is some documentation on https://www.geni.com/projects/User-Tutorial-Basic-Techniques-3-Prof...

Welcome to the one big world shared tree :D
Well, there is an ingenious document insertion system for old family profiles, (which now some [C] will send you a message linck to the tutorial :)

but in ancient medieval historical profiles it's rare & difficult for the private user to have them, it's much more probable and plausible that they are available to museums, mentioned in encyclopedias or specialized sites, so in this case it is sufficient to linck them in the info/about section of the profile that appears when you enter the profile after creating it.

a pair of "small" recommendation, before putting our hands to the medieval ancient tree, do a lot of practice on our own.. & ...check read notifications from phone, but modify when comfortable and focused on a desktop :D

Capt Henry Edward Heater

Be sure and get OUT of tree view and into PROFILE view so you can see any notes, comments, projects, co managers, etc.

Indeed this group had no sources cited, either in an uploaded source document or a reference or citation or link in the profile. Good, now we can get the citations in so anyone can see them.

But really, “don’t” make new profiles. Work with the existing tree instead.

So for your example of Christine Clementine Leonard b 1835 (and thank you for adding her to the tree), if you click the link, you’re in full profile view.

You’ll see:

About edit | history
Share some things about Christine Clementine (Maurice) Leonard.

All in blue. Click “edit” and a text box opens up where you can enter notes.

You may be able to find some online sources using Google books (if you know what you are looking for). But I agree with Livio, please first get very familiar with Geni in a more recent part of the tree.

Be sure you can find duplicate profiles even when Geni does not indicate them and that you know how to solve tree and data conflicts the correct way before you do anything in the medieval part of the tree.
It is very easy to make mistakes there and it takes much time and effort to correct any errors and handle duplicate profiles.

Be sure most profiles in the medieval tree are already at least once on Geni.

Sorry for the preaching but it takes so much effort to correct mistakes there that we have to warn users to be very careful in that part of the tree.

Cross posted with Erica

Erica: Thanks. I cannot add sources when I enter a profile; however, I see that after I enter the profile, there is a tab for adding document sources, which seems contra-intuitive to me. In any event, the next step is to see what I can add as a basic user.

Job: I appreciate your comment and certainly do not regard it as “preaching.”

Erica: Another question while I am at it. I notice other geni profiles have more specific place locations than I seem able to enter. When I am entering a profile, the location blanks offer me an auto-fill that usually offers me a modern equivalent of an old city, that has incorporated the old city, or even a city that is nearby. It will not accept my own entries. What gives? Likewise, I cannot enter a profile without clicking on the person as living or dead. Sometimes I do not know and simply guess based on the birthdate.

I want to address a point about the medieval tree. The way we get corrections made is by discussion from that tab on the profile. So for example google

geni jan de pape

And you will find the profile. Then go to the discussion tab and add your comments, giving links to sources, and what you think needs correction.

Location entry offers you a modern place. When working with a historic profile, don’t use it; fill in the data by hand.

Actually you can add documents at time of profile entry, Ive done it. But I’ve found it a better practice to create the profile first, proofread, edit as need be, and then FIRST STEP open the profile to the “about” and describe the source of my entry. It can be as simple as a link to another tree or a huge, detailed biography. But without information in the “about” I have no clue where the profile came from.

Part of Livio’s point is that access to primary sources for medieval profiles is likely to be limited to regular people, and interpreting them correctly is a whole other issue. Even if some of us retain our junior high school Latin, do we know the language as it was used c 1000 in what is now Belgium? Not I! So we rely on the published scholarship, who may disagree in their reconstructions. Wikipedia is a decent start point (often enough) particularly for summarizing who it is you’re looking at, but we “chase the citations” for the best tree configuration.

Erica: I did not rely on unsourced Wikipedia articles; they were supported by secondary sources. Now, secondary sources generally are trumped by primary sources; however, I saw none here. In any event, with 20-20 hindsight, there were enough red flags sticking out of the line, that I should have raised the conflicts here instead trying to resolve them on my own. Part of my point to Livio is that we all make mistakes; however, if he makes a mistake I would not gratuitously accuse him of “playing around.”

Looks like Livio relied on the source I cited to in Wikipedia.

I’m not quarreling with the source.

What we’re trying to get across is that “particularly” in the medieval tree, we need to approach tree correction collaboratively and transparently. It’s really different from entering new family in 1825.

Capt Henry Edward Heater,

Geni has a steep learning curve, but there is some help information available, but it can be hard to find for someone just starting with Geni. There is a list of some English documentation on https://www.geni.com/projects/Nederlandse-handleiding-GENI-voor-Dum...

Alex Moes the matrimonial connection
with the MP you indicated there is.(different opinions but there is)
I found and glued to which wiki pages followed, & also the correspondents on MedLands... (some JPG to be able to navigate on sight;)

We have to concentrate among too many children of Arnout III, graaf van Aarschot, his dates & name not numbered locked (remove time travelers blocks).

Now as soon as SWAT finishes explaining the fire and the wheel, we hope to join in the work :D

Job: Thanks for the link.

Henry,

There must be more, I only put these there because many people in the Netherlands can read/understand English and we do not have Dutch documentation for everything.
There is also some information in the https://www.geni.com/blog and on https://help.geni.com