Sir John Perrot, Kt., MP - Wives, Mistress(es), Children

Started by Private User on Thursday, October 31, 2019
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It looks very much as though Sir Thomas Perrot, MP was the only child of Sir John Perrot and his first wife Anne Chene(y). That Thomas was born in 1553 and Anne died in 1553 has...ominous implications.

Sir John took a widow, Jane Prust widow of Lewis Pollard, to be his second wife. The date of the marriage is uncertain, but was sometime before 1566. Sir John's second son, William, was certainly hers, and his shadowy third son, John Perrot II, may have been also. (If so, this would explain why Sir John didn't have to scramble to provide for John II the way he did James - John II was already in the line of succession.) But he was soon left a widower for the second time, as Jane died in 1568. (Incidentally, Jane's "birth" date of "1517" seems to be much too early. She cannot have been born to a father who was only four years old.)

Exactly when Sir John took up with Sybil Jones is unknown, but she did give him his fourth son, (Sir) James Perrot, circa 1570. Sir John loved him well enough to acknowledge him and make repeated efforts to insert him into the succession as a backup - in which he was not entirely successful, as later events showed.

Which daughters were Jane's and which Sybil's is also unclear (any born after 1568 would *have* to be Sybil's, or perhaps another mistress').

William, the second son (and first by the second wife), is reported to have died in 1587, unmarried and without heirs.

As for John II, he is last heard of entering Gray's Inn in 1583, and if he did not succumb to the diseases bred by the filth of London, he was certainly dead by 1594 - and just as heirless as William.

It was in 1594 that Sir John's eldest son Thomas died, leaving a wife and a daughter (he had also had a son, who died young). This precipitated a legal wrangle over the Perrot inheritance between James Perrot, Sir Thomas' widow Dorothy and her new husband (Henry Percy, 9th earl of Northumberland), and a legitimate cousin, Thomas Perrot of London. This is what makes it obvious that John II *must* have been deceased by then - he nor any one claiming connection to him had any part in the case.

The short of it is that James managed to inherit most of his father's lands, but the case dragged on for twenty-five years before the last of it was resolved.

Tagging:
Sir John Perrot
Anne Perrot
Jane Perrot
Sibyl verch Rhys Jones
Sir Thomas Perrot, MP
(profile for William Perrot appears to be seriously inaccurate)
John Perrot, II
Sir James Perrot, MP

Things I believe strongly:

the overview for Sir John Perrot says that his parentage is unknown. To my mind, this is untrue; he is in the Welsh Genealogies as the son of Sir Thomas Perrot, Kt., of Haroldston and Mary Pughe (NOT Henry VIII.)

As you see by my curator's notes on Sibyl verch Rhys Jones she does not appear in the Welsh Genealogies as a mistress of Sir John Perrot. I don't insist that we remove the connection, because there is other evidence for the connection in Archaeologia Cambrensis, BUT I myself believe the Welsh Genealogies more than I believe Archaeologia Cambrensis.

That Anne Perrot is the wife of Sir John is attested by the Welsh Genealogies; Jane Perrot is also attested.

However.

The Welsh Genealogies, as we have them in the notes, give no dates.

And we are just at the line -- any children of Sir John are too late to make the database cut.

Alumni Oxonienses https://www.british-history.ac.uk/alumni-oxon/1500-1714/pp1131-1154 gives enough information for guesswork birth dates on John and James (and yes, John was the older of the two).

Perrot, John of co. Hereford, militis fil. Broadgates Hall, matric. entry under date 28 April, 1580, aged 15; student of Gray's Inn 1583, as 3s. John, of Carew, co. Pembroke, kt.; brother of James 1586. See Foster's Gray's Inn Reg. (age 15 in 1580 = born c. 1565)

Perrott, (Sir) James of co. Pembroke, equitis fil. Jesus Coll., matric. 8 July, 1586, aged 14; student of Middle Temple 1590, as 2s. John, of Carew, co. Pembroke, kt.; Wood says, "a natural son" (his father was lord deputy of Ireland), of Haroldstone, co. Pembroke, knighted in July, 1603, M.P. Haverfordwest 1597-8, 1604-11, 1614, 1621-2, 1628-9, co. Pembroke 1624-5, held office in Ireland; died s.p. 4 Feb., 1636; brother of John 1580. See Ath. ii. 605; & Foster's Inns of Court Reg. (age 14 in 1586 = born c. 1572)

Depending on exactly when Sir John married his second wife, John II might be legitimate - but James certainly was not.

Sir John Perrot was over in Munster, Ireland, and based in Waterford during the years 1570-1573. Did he bring Sybil with him, did he find her there, or is everyone mistaken in thinking she was (Sir) James' mother?

To give us all a reason to eat a bit more popcorn, I ask, wasn't it also normal in (Modern day U.K) those areas at those days for a woman to keep her own maiden name? This was at least the method most common in the Middle Ages in many parts of Europe.

If so, Sir John Perrot, Kt's wifes could have their names back? If not, they shall keep them.

(Thanks for interesting discussions ladies :))

Talking about this señor here. Sir John Perrot

A most helpful exchange, thank you.

Sir John's revised wiki profile below addresses some of the questions raised via its updated source material.
https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Perrot-4&p...

In particular his ODNB entry by Roger Turvey is now directly accessible: https://archive.org/details/SirJohnPerrotOxfordDNBEntryRogerTurvey

This builds on the work of Bartrum and Edwards to provide an authoritative summary of current research. The Parliamentary bio of Sir James P also acknowledges Turvey's work. https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1604-1629/member/p

Private User

Re: wasn't it also normal in (Modern day U.K) those areas at those days for a woman to keep her own maiden name?

I’ve read wills & IPMs from English women in the 1500s and 1600s. They were written with their husband’s surname. Wills also referred to married daughters by their married names only.

My understanding is it was different for Wales, Scotland and Ireland. I have seen Scots wills in the same 1500s / 1600s period, and women used their father’s surname.

Keeping their own surname was apparently a pre-Tudor thing. (Surnames as such were a relative innovation, phasing in from about the 12th to 14th century and, typically, percolating down the status ladder.)

James Perrott was not a known child of Sir Thomas Perrot, MP

Disconnected and locked relationships on his ex - parents.

Wonder how that happened?

I tried to find information on the web, but I didn't succeed. I probably used the wrong keywords, thanks Erica for the info.

Saga, the article here is a start.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maiden_and_married_names#English-sp...

se husband's family name
In the past, a woman in England would usually assume her new husband's family name (or surname) after marriage; often she was compelled to do so under coverture laws. Assuming the husband's surname remains common practice today in the United Kingdom (although there is no law that states the name must be changed) and in other countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, Gibraltar, Falkland Islands, Ireland, India, Philippines, the English-speaking provinces of Canada and the United States.

In the lowlands of Scotland in the 16th century, married women did not change their surnames, but today it is common practice to do so.

—-

The key legal term is “coverture.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coverture

Coverture (sometimes spelled couverture) was a legal doctrine whereby, upon marriage, a woman's legal rights and obligations were subsumed by those of her husband, in accordance with the wife's legal status of feme covert. An unmarried woman, a feme sole, had the right to own property and make contracts in her own name. Coverture arises from the legal fiction that a husband and wife are one person.

Coverture was established in the common law of England for several centuries and throughout most of the 19th century, influencing some other common-law jurisdictions. According to Arianne Chernock, coverture did not apply in Scotland, but whether it applied in Wales is unclear.

——

They do not say beyond “several centuries,” but England was all about the lawyers and the property rights.

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