John Perrot The Quaker Pope Converter His writings from Bedlam Prison

“Michael Bacon, of Winston is John Rice, II's 11th cousin once removed!”

If this is correct, that means their common ancestor is around Alice de Latham - who Geni shows as my 24th Great grandmother.

This is meaningless for Rice Pudding, particularly since John Rice, II is of Wiltshire with no known connections to John Rice of Dedham or anyone in Wales, either.

Severe, advanced Emma Siggins White Disease, that's what this is. The name's the same, therefore they must all be the same family - or even the same person.

Dear Emma made that mistake over and over and over again, rendering her work virtually useless on the English side of the Atlantic. Moreover, she sometimes did not make it innocently, but with deliberate fraudulent intent, rewriting her husband John Barber White's ancestry from the Somerset yeomen they actually were into Hampshire gentry because "the names matched" and they were More Important.

To this day research into the various White families remains a minefield, because of her.

This exchange from "HMS Pinafore":

Buttercup.
Things are seldom what they seem,
Skim milk masquerades as cream;
Highlows pass as patent leathers;
Jackdaws strut in peacock's feathers.

Captain. (puzzled)
Very true,
So they do.

Buttercup.
Black sheep dwell in every fold;
All that glitters is not gold;
Storks turn out to be but logs;
Bulls are but inflated frogs.

Captain. (puzzled)
So they be,
Frequentlee.

Buttercup.
Drops the wind and stops the mill;
Turbot is ambitious brill;
Gild the farthing if you will,
Yet it is a farthing still.

Captain. (puzzled)
Yes, I know.
That is so.
Though to catch your drift I'm striving,
It is shady — it is shady;
I don't see at what you're driving,
Mystic lady — mystic lady.

Both. (aside)
Stern conviction's o'er me/him stealing,
That the mystic lady's dealing
In oracular revealing.

https://www.letssingit.com/gilbert-and-sullivan-lyrics-things-are-s...
LetsSingIt - The Internet Lyrics Database

What she's trying to tell him, as we soon learn, is that *he* isn't who he thinks he is.

Your argument is with Family Tree who links my DNA to Michael Bacon....Buttercup.

I express my self the way I do. that's not a problem for me...sorry it's a problem for you. The Family Tree project shows a combined 4.3% N.A. I am simply repeating that. You know more than I so you tell me what it means. As to the Anne Norville (Spencer) her married name is Norville grand daughter of Rachael Crowshaw, Is all I was relating. Insults are normative for this site but usually they wait until after I proved them wrong Mr. Pratt. I do think in a kind of shorthand. That's just who I am...not asking for approval here. https://www.geni.com/path/John-Rice-II+is+related+to+Michael-Bacon-...

https://www.geni.com/path/Elizabeth-Spencer+is+related+to+Mildred-R...

Norville is the common link to my maternal side and the John Rice II is the son of my 3rd great grandfather as I read it. Perhaps I was wrong, but that's why we are here....to help each other find what is true MBH....You keep forgetting your role here. If you don't Think I am related to Michael Baccon Family Tree says he's my 3rd to 5th cousin by DNA. I am not Family tree, I am trying to get at the root of this and NO ONE absolutely NO IS BRAGGING Mr. Pratt.

You think you're "proving" anything by random Geni paths? Where's the connection to YOU?

I can only suppose that you do *not* realize that John Rice II, of Rhode Island, is yet another different unconnected individual - not a Welsh Rice, not a Suffolk Rice, not a Bedfordshire Rice, etc.

I don't see how a 16th century Bacon can be "3rd to 5th cousin" to you without there being multiple removes which render the relationship moot.

Here's what Geni says: Dale C. Rice is Michael Bacon, of Winston's fifth cousin >>>14 times removed.<<<

The descent is on your mother's side, mixed male-female, and too long ago for autosomal DNA to be able to tell you much of anything.

As for John Rice II, it's a lot worse: 10th cousin 9 times removed, and *still* on your mother's side.

Well Gee wiz Maven maybe if you would connect the father's I've told you about at John Peratt II 1565 you would find different results. You have all the pathways blocked because you and S.were blockheads in the beginning and you still have me blocked even when I show you the cousin linkages. The Blue trail is all I am showing you...I didn't say it meant anything...Talk about me being dense.

https://www.geni.com/path/John-Rice-of-Wiltshire-Warwick+is+related...

And as for the Elizabeth Spencer link, I think <private> just bit you in the butt. Only YOU can see connections to <private> Rice-Wanker, and Geni cannot and will not show them to anyone else. Therefore no one (except *maybe* a curator) can tell what you're talking about.

No one has you "blocked", Dale. You are simply shortcutting the paths to such an extent that they become meaningless drivel.

DO NOT link to your mother's profile if you want to "show proof" of anything. She is PRIVATE. It is POINTLESS.

Listen to this, Geni Curators and Customer Service:

"Well Gee wiz Maven maybe if you would connect the father's I've told you about at John Peratt II 1565 you would find different results."

Dale is asking people to DISTORT their trees to match his fantasy.

That is NOT what Geni exists for.

Dale C. Rice

Re: "Well Gee wiz Maven maybe if you would connect the father's I've told you about at John Peratt II 1565 you would find different results."

You are more than welcome to show that connection on a private tree, not on the Geni platform, nor would I suggest any other collaborative site. You can make a small free tree on MyHeritage or Ancestry.com, for example, I believe.

But you have asked collaborative assistance, and received it gladly, in case you’ve forgotten who worked through your John Rice tree for you, on Geni, and went through it very carefully, with multiple eyes, and the best sourcing we could find for you. You’re welcome!

But we simply don’t agree with your work for England and Wales.

My point is : Let me amplify further for you and MBH. The Person Perrot ap Rice 1598 was not even here until I showed up and found his father John Peratt 1565 Oxinesis Records 1580-82. I proved to JS that the person was real and he said NOPE he's dead in Wales before 1655. So I am supposed to believe that? A knights first born son without a marker in Wales? When the boys mother has a church massive tomb...Perrot ap Rice is not worthy of a Plaque somewhere? JS was Wrong, MBH was wrong when I had a perfectly legitimate explaination of why he left Wales....Justin found the debt of 640 lbs to his uncle. His sister was married to Sampson Lort purveyor of goods to the Kings Army and all of that falls in line with him being a scoundrel and leaving Wales to escape. Further I provided the information that led to the Discovery of Daffid ap Rice/ Beatrice in the Princess Mary household accounts showing Harry/Williiam 1521 was educated at Durham Priory until age 16. His sister Mary who married Thomas Jenkins ca 1547-48 was given 30 yards of White silk for her gown by Mary Tudor. Do I have to remind you of the recently solved Henry Rice of Newton debacle that I brought to your attention? Or the best one is Hester Harrington when I was told: "Just accept it she's dead". I am not bragging here I am reminding everyone that the people and issues I bring to you have all been real and added to the Tree which I have given thanks for many, many times but the crucial relationships within the Geni Algorythem points at these distant cousins....MBH crows they are meaningless....I say she has little aprreciation for the power of the Computer to find these relationships despite the Blockages that have been put up to stop me from completing the very real story of Redemption of Perrot ap Rice 1598 as a Quaker. He's the father of John Rice 1624 and if you simply included him as such for a moment on the tree all of the distant relationships will come into focus...OFCOURSE they are distant...you don't look at the obvious links that tell my story. But if you insist on making it hard instead of easy that's your call. But please stop telling me and the world that the distant relations found by GENIE mean nothing.....It's the machine telling YOU to wake up and put the proper people in their place in history on only one level the relationships will reallign form14th cousin to perhaps 4th cousin as JohnPrice and Mary Price 1610 Virginia resolved into the 4th cousin of Perrot ap Rice...who used his brother's name for obvious reasons. The story is connected, not seperat parts which you keep trying to tell me they don't fit. They won't fit until you put in Perrot ap Rice and Margaret Mercer as father and grandmother of John Price. Collaboration in face of such monsterous lies on MBH part is inexcusable in my view. When I tell you that his son Married into the ADKINS Pughe line in Virginia and I have DNA Matches in those lines found by Family Tree...I am not making it up...but some are certainly ignoring the fact that Thomas Price got his 50 lbs early from his mother Pricilla and Rice Hughes in Virginai met him....and go 50 acres on the York River....who's being uncooperative? I brought it all here one issue at a time and we were able to get through it together because I consider the source of the negative comments and ignore them. Do I have to go through corrective action we went through on every line? Thomas Price born 1530 was ascribed to Lady Rice-Bridge water until I brought it to your attention. There are many other examples and you should have a bit more respect for the things my DAD told me in 1978 because so far you have proved each and every one of them. But You are certainly free to do whateve you like. I can use this system to find the relationships easier than starting over on another site where I have no algorithms on which to depend. I am not asking anyone to distort anything by bringing it here to discusss...but since you observed my distant cousins are meaningless you might try doing the tree differently on this one issue. Tamzine can still be anyone in East Anglia...I don't have any deep connection to her...so leave his mother as unknown. I' will bet the distant cousins become close cousins as the algorythem unblocks your BLOCKS!

https://www.geni.com/path/Dale-C-Rice+is+related+to+Michael-Bacon-o...

Michael Bacon is my 3r cousin according to Family tree family finder. If you want to look further to the connections Of Bacon you have to connect Perrot ap Rice as Father of John Rice 1624. see where the computer takes you...we already know these people are all connected in the great Quaker Awakening. DCR

I already found that path and told you what it said: 5th cousin 14 times removed. On your mother's side. And John Rice II of Warwick RI is your 10th cousin 9 times removed, also on your mother's side. Doesn't mean a lot, and certainly doesn't help solve any mysteries on your father's side.

You have provided NO PROOF WHATSOEVER - only your bald say-so - that Perrot ap RIce 1598 "was" the same person as John Perrot the Quaker c. 1620.

You *never* provide proof - you just spout one improbable claim after another until you have a fantasy that seems consistent to you because you invented it. And in the process you invent one distortion after another until nobody is related to anybody they are supposed to be - and that doesn't bother you.

You keep dragging in stories from Virginia that have *no relevance at ALL* to Puritan Massachusetts.

And you keep telling people that all of their detailed, painstaking genealogical research is wrong and only your family fantasy - with no evidence whatsoever to support most of it - is right, and insisting that the Geni tree be wrecked for your sole personal benefit. Isn't that terribly selfish of you?

Johnny be fair and Johnny be fine and wants me for to wed,
I would marry Johnny, but my father up and said:
"I'm sorry to tell you, daughter, what your mother never knew,
But, Johnny is a son of mine, and so is kin to you."

Now, Jimmy be fair and Jimmy be fine and wants me for to wed,
I would marry Jimmy, but my father up and said:
"I'm sorry to tell you, daughter, what your mother never knew,
But, Jimmy too is a son of mine, and so is kin to you."

Ah, Willie be fair and Willie be fine and wants me for to wed,
I would marry Willie, but my father up and said:
"I'm sad to tell you, daughter, what your mother never knew,
But, Willie too is a son of mine, and so is kin to you."

You never saw a girl so sad or sorry as I was,
The boys in town are all me kin and me father is the cause;
If life should thus continue, I shall die a single miss,
And so, I'll go to mother and complain to her of this.

"Ah, daughter, haven't I taught you to forgive and to forget?
And if your father sowed his oats,well still you needn't fret;
Your father may be father to all the boys in town, but still....
He's not the one who sired you, so marry who you will."

You have blocked the real realtionships this is all that can be found until you unblock the relationship path. I want you to understand that! You did this by not allowing Perrot ap Rice 1598 son John Perratt II 1565 to be John Rice of Dedham's Father. You are looking at the surface. Now try to get this MBH Anne Perrot Phillips daughter of Sir John Perrot 1527 had a son before she married Phillips of Picton Castle in 1582...my 8th great grandfather was that boys father. On Oct 12, 2019 The Phillips lines was found with 5 members testing one at 67 markers and 3 at 111 markers ZERO Distance from me, Dale C. Rice great grandson of John Rice of Dedham 1624 son of Perrot ap Rice, grandson of John Perrot by his daughter Margaret Mercer 1580 who married Thomas Perrot 3 mos. {Pregnant. This story of Robert Phillips aka son of John Peratt 1565 is the core of the DNA Story that I have pleaded with you and other to understand. it is now confirmed by down line Phillips here: at 101 Markers zero distnace.

https://www.geni.com/path/Dale-C-Rice+is+related+to+Daniel-Phillips...

Hugh Harry

My 7th great maternal grandfather is cousin to Perrot ap Rice's son Thomas Of Liether ca 1630 who was met by Rice Hughes March 2, 1652 in Virginia and received 50 acres on the York River. We are all connected and Geni is showing you that but you fault me for it being distant....don't you see how you have short circuited the biggest news in Geni History regarding a family who zero people on it from my family in 2010 to uncovering the son of Margaret Mercer 1580 as Pope ConverterQuaker? It's fully been veted but you and other refuse to let the light into the early history of Ma./ Virginia story. I' ve done everything Justin S. asked of me but you still don't get it. So if you can't follow the DNA trail stop trying to disprove a HISTORY that is going to be told whether you like it or not.
MBH

OK sparky, do you even know what familytree's main purpose is? (big, big hint -its a business, not a research organization).

yup, to make money. there are no, i say no, regs on these businesses who tout factual familial dna matching when they don't tell you that precisely none of them has anything remotely resembling an accurate or complete map or sequence set (which is truly sad given that if they simply included the public nih databases in their search parameters, they may be more accurate (trust me, accuracy by them is the last thing you want). they dont do this because doing so requires full-disclosure of all results (public usage rules) and that means they cant patent or otherwise make money from this. so, i do actually know what i'm talking about when i question both your data source and your wild interpretation/theorizing based thereon (despite you removing my title and trying to somehow annoy/discredit me by calling me Mr. Pratt (i could give a shit (suspension warning)).
so, when those that know, understand, fathom, and doubt your supposed ground-breaking findings, you should take heed and not be holier-than-thou.
(*by the way, the ancestor, descendants, and everything between and outside of the direct and indirect family members of henry viii and basically all of the tudors has been researched to death and beyond. a grad-student in pre-elizabethan english history would find themselves struggling for a thesis project - but, they would make the cover of every periodical on and off line iff they proved these so-called tudor relations. they have a more vested interest that your delusions of grandeur, yet nothing is revealed - kinda makes you think, eh?

bring it.

dr pratt

Re: “You did this by not allowing Perrot ap Rice 1598 son John Perratt II 1565 to be John Rice of Dedham's Father.”

Maven didn’t do this. We all did this. We don’t accept the claim.

Dale, are you saying that Descendants of Rev. George Phillips, of Watertown Y DNA tests seem to match your Y DNA test?

I remember this from a few years ago (if this is the correct Phillips line?). Weren’t you advised to join the ftdna group & both to have further testing? Is this the further test results?

Since the geography of East Anglia and New England is consistent with the John Rice of Dedham family, this is a good clue. But needs a good analysis.

Without knowing anything further than what I just said, of which I’m not sure, what comes to mind:

1. Common ancestor of Phillips & Rice in East Anglia (how far back?)

2. Non paternal event in the Phillips line in America by a Rice

3. Non paternal event in the Rice line in America by a Phillips

4. Surname change in either line

5. Common ancestor outside of genealogical time frame (1200s or so)

also, a whole helluva lot more value is being given to distant cousins. fyi, after 5-10 gens, you're as related to them as you are to any person of like background (as a descendent of white western europeans - we're' all related to one another).

that damn education is rearing its ugly head again. how can i make it stop?

A Y DNA match to the Phillips line of East Anglia & Massachusetts is plausible.

A Y DNA match to the “Phillips of Picton Castle” does not seem plausible. It looks like that family has no living men (not sure) so therefore no Y DNA test to compare.

https://archives.library.wales/index.php/philipps-family-of-picton-...

I don’t know if I have it right, but this fellow looks like he could be the surviving Phillips of Picton Castle:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodri_Philipps,_4th_Viscount_St_Da...

Has he had a Y DNA test?

The Picton Castle estate, Pembrokeshire, was acquired by the Phillips family when Sir Thomas ap Philip of Cilsant married Jane, daughter and heiress of Sir Henry Dwnn, of Picton sometime before 1491. The Philipps also acquired Gelliswick and Kilgetty when Elizabeth Canon married into the Philipps family in the late 17th century.

The estate remained in the hands of the Phillips family until the death without issue of Sir Richard Philipps, 7th Bart, Lord Milford, in 1823. The estate was inherited by Sir Richard Bulkeley Grant who assumed the surname and arms of Philipp. His grandmother had been the reputed daughter of Bulkeley Philipps, youngest son of Sir John Philipps, 4th Bart. Sir Richard Bulkeley's heir was his half-brother, the Rev. James Henry Alexander Philipps (formerly Gwyther), who assumed by royal licence the surname and arms of Philipps. On his death the estate passed to his son-in-law, Charles Edward Gregg Philipps. On the death without issue of Sir John Erasmus Gwynne Alexander Philipps in 1948, the estate passed to Sir Richard Foley Foley-Philipps, 4th Bart, cousin of Sir John Erasmus, and grandson of Charles Edward Gregg Philipps, 1st Bart. The Tregyb estate became part of the Picton Castle estate in 1974.

According to the 1873 return of owners of land, Rev. John Henry Alexander Philipps, of Picton Castle owned an estimated 21,455 acres in Wales (in Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire), with an estimated rental of £23,696.

Castle, castle, who's got the castle?

Oh yes, the tag: https://archives.library.wales/index.php/philipps-family-of-picton-...

"My 7th great maternal grandfather is cousin to Perrot ap Rice's son Thomas Of Liether ca 1630 who was met by Rice Hughes March 2, 1652 in Virginia and received 50 acres on the York River" eeeend scene. winge all you wish, facts and desires are far from identical.

There You Go Again.

Are you related to Sharpvilles, Dale? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Sharpville Looks like the next heir to “Picton.” Only daughters.