It's time to compare John Dudley Y DNA to His son Ambrose and Robert Dudley 1532 my 2nd cousins x 15 removed

John Perrot Jr. 1591 is Justin S. great Uncles indentured Servant. He had son Dr. Richard Perrot in Virginia and a half Brother Robert. That is the last of it...although my connection is to both men by mother's family that is not the topic at hand. Which is Perrot ap Rice 1598 who passed himself off as John Perrot the Quaker after his conversion in 1654 Limerick after leaving his sons in Virgiinia Robert Perrot the Quaker and Jesse Perrot, whom I match 37/37. My match has since been moved from Perrot the Phillips family tree I have been told but they are connected and no I will not take your word for it you have been misinformed by GENI as they all were regarding Ethelralda Mault's Daughter Hester Harrington dying rather than marrying Robert Steubbs at Clair Danes Church London age 14.

John Perrot Jr. 1591 is Justin S. great Uncles indentured Servant. He had son Dr. Richard Perrot in Virginia and a half Brother Robert. That is the last of it...although my connection is to both men by mother's family that is not the topic at hand. Which is Perrot ap Rice 1598 who passed himself off as John Perrot the Quaker after his conversion in 1654 Limerick after leaving his sons in Virgiinia Robert Perrot the Quaker and Jesse Perrot, whom I match 37/37. My match has since been moved from Perrot the Phillips family tree I have been told but they are connected and no I will not take your word for it you have been misinformed by GENI as they all were regarding Ethelralda Mault's Daughter Hester Harrington dying rather than marrying Robert Steubbs at Clair Danes Church London age 14.

Sir John Perrot, Kt., MP is your 16th great uncle.
You
→ Geneive Melba Hicks
your mother → Ossie Mae Emerson
her mother → Maudie Mae Pratt
her mother → Margaret Frances Crawshaw
her mother → Benjamin Franklin Brown
her father → Margaret Brown
his mother → Nancy Dempsey
her mother → Agnes Thompson
her mother → William Wood, Sr
her father → Colonel John Josiah Woods
his father → Michael Marion Woods, of "Blair Park"
his father → Elizabeth Woods
his mother → Elizabeth Woods
her mother → Letitia Parsons (Loftus)
her mother → Jane Vaughan
her mother → Katherine Rhys
her mother → Eleanor Jones
her mother → Lady Mary Berkeley
her mother → Sir John Perrot, Kt., MP
her son

John Perrot Jr. 1591 is Justin S. great Uncles indentured Servant. He had son Dr. Richard Perrot in Virginia and a half Brother Robert. That is the last of it...although my connection is to both men by mother's family that is not the topic at hand. Which is Perrot ap Rice 1598 who passed himself off as John Perrot the Quaker after his conversion in 1654 Limerick after leaving his sons in Virgiinia Robert Perrot the Quaker and Jesse Perrot, whom I match 37/37. My match has since been moved from Perrot the Phillips family tree I have been told but they are connected and no I will not take your word for it you have been misinformed by GENI as they all were regarding Ethelralda Mault's Daughter Hester Harrington dying rather than marrying Robert Steubbs at Clair Danes Church London age 14.

I find it all very fascinating and wish the tone was not quite so heavy. I follow so many Discussions and just cringe when the insults are hurled. These stories are important and they matter to so many.

Dr. Richard Perrot is on line here at Geni from time to time and his DNA is directly linked to the only legitiamate son Sir John Perrot had, aka: Thomas Perrot by Alice Cheney of the Sinque Ports. He not only looks like sir John In my opiinon but has a PHD and has confirmed the DNA Is I haplogroup as I have contended all along. You all don't know what you think you know. And if you can't abandon your pre-conceived notions and let the DNA fall where it may as I am prepared to do....then you should stop telling me that I am WRONG about this as my father was perfectly informed as to Perrot's Name and his Sister's marriage to Sampson Lort and connects to THE PHILLIPS of PCITON Castle. Not one of you knew that UNtill this moment. Why do I know it? Because John Peratt see PRATT above raised by Sir John Perrot got his daughter in the family way and was thrown out of the Perrot family in response and declared DEAD so as not to inherrit. It is that Perrot who was granted land in Barbados 1639 and had yes his son Perrot ap Rice 1598 had 3 women who bore his children and died broke in Barbados after being released from Bedlam Prinson by the court of Charles II.

One conquest at a time: I am still looking for the VIrginia Historical society or version there of which states flat out that Hooe1 family was granted the Right to Trade on the Jam,es River in 1654. Please keep your comments to that single issue for time being. DCR

Dale,

You have mixed up two different John Perrots. Please “read” the profiles, they are serious, sorted and cited.

John "the Quaker" Perrot
John "the Quaker" Perrot MP
Gender: Male
Birth: circa 1620
Waterford, Munster, Ireland
Death: between August 30, 1665 and September 07, 1665 (41-49)
Jamaica

John Perrot "the Quaker" (say 1620-1665). He cannot be the same person as John Parrott, of Nansemond River.

—

John Parrott, of Paraketo Point

This is the Master Profile for John Parrott, of Paraketo Point.
Curator Note from Justin Howery Swanstrom (5/24/2014):
Do not confuse him with John Perrot "the Quaker".

John Parrott, of Paraketo Point MP
Gender: Male
Birth: circa 1590
Ireland
Death: circa 1650 (52-68)
Suffolk, Virginia, United States
Immediate Family:
Son of unknown Parrott and unknown (unknown) Parrott
Husband of Prunella NN
Father of Robert Parrott

——

You are also mixing up a Hughes Trading Post in what is now Amherst VA in the 1720s with Rice Hooe of Merchants Hope, Licensed Indian Trader (which is a different thing, really), in the 1650s.

As to Hester Stubbs, Dale is claiming credit for something that he neither discovered nor claimed prior to the information appearing on Geni. Her only importance to Dale, in fact, is that she was the daughter of Audrey Maulte, who was said - after her own time - to have been the daughter of Henry VIII. (During her own lifetime neither John Maulte nor her husband John Harington had any idea that she was other than Maulte's daugter.)

Typically, Dale gets her husband's name all wrong - he wasn't "Robert Steubbs", but William Stubbs.

As to why Harington might have married Audrey if she *wasn't* backdoor royalty: due to her father's generosity she was rich, Harington was not rich, and social climbing takes a lot of money.

Have a nice day Ms. Helms. My version holds DNA your version does not. I brought the Hester Stubbes story to the curator who made the change for me as I knew you and other's would say I was misinformed. FYI Dr. Richard Perrot son of John Perrot Jr. 1591 or thereabuts and Prunellas his wife are cousins of mine. So you are WRONG again in your characterization of my knowing what I know. My father has been proved right by history every turn. He told me how Margaret Mercer was the Mother of Perrot ap Rice , and that her mother LOVELACE see the family family burial site in Tenby has the Red half of the shield above her grave as all Lovelace, not Mercer. The connection between Sir John Perrot the Queens Main man in Ireland by hanging 500 men on the plantation there tells of her belief in him. His DNA shows up in his down line sons Thomas Perrot who did not survive his father but did manage to have a son...who's progeny is on GENI with a PHD. Robet Codrington married the daughter of Hester and Wm. then. So what? I have the story which explains every person of interest and further how I-1 Haplogroup is part of every one of Henry Tudor's illegitimate sons. That line which includes John Perrot Jr. and Prunella who emigrated first as an indentured servant 1623 and then brought her over ca 1629-30 to Virginia includes Dr. Richard who is my cousin x 10 times removed. Which brings me to the final point before going back to the document search. It is only an estimate that John Perrot the Quaker was born 1620....an estimate by a geneaologist who did not know about Perrot ap Rice and his education as Knight's son. There is no one named John Perrot who had the education except John Perratt at Grey's Inn. So Perrot ap Rice being born 1598 is the correct person who became known as John Perrot the Quaker. You don't have to accept it but these people are my cousins, and or direct great grandfathers and my father's family came by this information directly from Susanna Thorne Dudley sister in law to my Uncle Ernest Crosby Stevens...also here on geni. Perrot ap Rice did not die in Wales as Justin thinks: He went to America to deliver my 6th great grandfather in the Sparrow listed as first mate by the Admiralty to Reverend John Allin who married Gov. Dudley's Widow. DCR 1948

Sooner or later, Dale, you will exhaust the patience and tolerance of everyone who is here to do REAL genealogy and not just to "prove" family legends.

On that day hopefully everyone will know enough to *avoid* your threads and leave you talking to yourself.

I’m really posting these notes for other people.

John the Quaker Perrot is a known historical figure. His will is extant which named two minor daughters. He held offices in Barbados, he associated with other Quaker missionaries, he left a body of writing. Since he got in trouble with the authorities & also fell out with George Fox, estimates of his birth & notions of his origins are pretty much “out there.” He was from Ireland, and one of a group we call “the Irish Quakers.”

Just quickly:

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Ireland_Quaker_Records

“In 1654, the Quaker faith (Religious Society of Friends) began in Ireland. Its roots can be found among English soldiers, farmers, and merchants who arrived in Ireland after the English Civil War (1641-1651). These immigrants converted to the new religion from a variety of other nonconforming protestant faiths. By 1750, there were 150 Quaker meetings across Ireland within the provinces of Ulster, Leinster, and Munster.”

——

This is Dale’s Ancestor. We don’t know his origins. His contemporaries came from the East Anglia area of England in the Puritan Great Migration.

John Rice, of Dedham

Precisely so: We don't have 100% nailed down because some here would rather taunt than help. My confirmed cousin relationship to John Rice of Liether is 5th cousin direct maternal line to Pricilla. He's also the named son of Perrot ap Rice 1598 who received his inheritence early some 50 Lbs and went to Virginia on the Star where Rice Hughes met him and the Virginia Historical society shows Hughes (aka Perrot ap Rice) Received 50 acres on the York River March 2, 1652. According to native historians, Price married directly in to the Pughe/Atkins line. I have that all documented on my page D.Charles Rice and I have blood Matches on Y with both Pughe and Atkins. This is exactly what Mr. Swanstrom said I had to find in order to be a blood relative. The man who brought Thomas Price over go 50 acres and was using his brother's name to John Rice (Hughes) between the year 1639-1654 when he found God as a Quaker and began writing phamplets as a Quaker. He landed in Bedlam Prison about 1656-57 and wrote from there to other Quakers. His education as a Knight's son is the piece some here fail to appreciate. The average person of North Leigh England where the Perrot's come from simply didn't have the education to write theological Arguments. BUt the father John Perratt II 1565 had enrolled at Grey's Inn as a lawyer and no doubt theology was included. I have read some of Perrot the Quaker's works and saw the unity of all creatures 200 years before the Beagle and Charles Darwin did. He was a scoundrel no good nick in Wales but as my father told me in 1978 "He turned over a new leaf as a Quaker" and began contesting with George Fox on the wearing of hats. My kind of guy for sure. DCR 1948

Sorry: Should be cousin relationship of Thomas Rice of Liether.... apologies.

Dale,

You need to take this story apart and examine each piece separately.

Your first mistake is John Perrot the Quaker. He was born about 1620 in Ireland. He died 1665 in Jamaica. He has “no other known family.”

He is NOT the same person as the John Perrot of Nansemond.

Until you accept these facts, it is difficult to progress.

John Perrot the Quqker and my 7th great grandfather are the same person because they used different name. Your version does not have DNA to match Dudley. I got Dudley DNA from him...there is a mistake perpetuated by a genealogist on this file. Just as it was on Hester Harrington. I can live with the difference of opinion but truly no one knew anything about the Quaker so where did he get his training and Education? He has no credential but Perrot ap Rice does. I agree to disagree over this.DCR And taking it apart piece by piece is what I have tried to do since day one.

Thomas of Liether is Perrot's son and he matches the story perfectly...so let's begin with the DNA of native Atkins/Pughe out of Thomas Price and My lines. I'll leave it to anyone who wants to look on D. Charles Rice FB and see the relationship to Pughe Atkins and me. DCR

"John Perrot the Quaker and my 7th great grandfather are the same person because they used different name."

Oh come ON! Logic-wise that's like saying "Apples are red because green cheese" - a total non-sequitur.

So you had a lucky hit on Hester Harington - so you think that "proves" that EVERYTHING you say is right. Nope.

Dudley DNA is relevant to Dudley descendants - and there are multiple Dudley families, only *some* of whom are related. (This appears to be part of your problem, and *extreme* case of Emma Siggins White disease, worse even than she had it. You seem to be under the delusion that ALL people with the same surname MUST belong to the same family, and if the DNA doesn't match there "must" be a Non-Parental Event to excuse it.)

In the real world, different people can pick the same (or very similar) surname for completely different reasons, that don't necessarily have anything to do with each other, and don't prove anything about whether they were related or not.

You keep making bald assertions WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE and expecting us to swallow them down whole, uncritically, and empty-mindedly. It doesn't work that way.

"Thomas of Liether is Perrot's son", you assert. Where's the evidence? Birth/baptismal certificate giving father's name, specifically enough for identification. Legal papers explicitly stating that Thomas is Perrot's son. Something *from their own time* that says in plain words that they were related. Without that, you got nuthin', and no serious genealogist is going to give you the time of day.

Oh by the way, are we still on "John Perrott", or are we back to Perrot ap Rice? According to YOU, there's no difference. According to *everyone else*, they were two (at least) different men. Or is this just more squid-ink to confuse the issue and make people think that you know what you're talking about?

Dale, you are making a mistake to equate your bringing to my attention a blog story you read with cited research.

Hester Stubbs

You read a blog. Once I read it and understood it (it’s dense) it was easy to understand how Kate Meerson, a respected researcher, had missed Hester’s survival; and in fairness it was also out of scope for her efforts.

I then “independently of the blog” followed up and verified its facts in constructing the Geni MP.

There is absolutely not even a hint of your claims for John the Quaker in the biographical work on him. There’s a Quaker Biography, an Oxford Biography, and a DNB which is easily available. Are you in that category as a researcher? I’m not! There is also primary evidence of his life if you went digging for it: his public service is on record; his contemporaries wrote of him. There’s his will.

Why is it that there is nothing supporting your points?

I have never calimed any relationship to Hester Stubbs and John Perrot. Yes I referred the story to you so that you could correct the error on Geni which was wrong. I thanked you then. I thank you now. The Blood DNA flows from my maternal first cousin Sir Robert Dudley and unknown woman to John Perratt II 1565 student of Grey's Inns 158-85 to his son Perrot ap Rice 1598 by Margaret Mercer 1580 to First born son of Perrot ap Rice to his sons Thomas Liether of Tenby 1630 and to my proved 6th great grandfather John Rice of Dedham to the Jessee Hughes of Virginia and Robert Hughes the Quaker via a native American in his company. Once Perrot ap Rice found Quaker religion in 1654 ca he sold his interest in the trading vessel to the Hooe1 's who received permission to trade on the James River ever after. Perrot ap Rice left for Italy with brother luft on the proceeds of selling the ship. The female lines of Floyds trace to Hooe1 not John RICE Hughes the brother of Perrot ap Rice. That's what my father told me in 1978 but I had forgotten much of that until the research I did triggered memory over the last 5-7 years. You don't have to believe me. But I will tell the story until I am convinced that it's wrong by DNA on Y chromosme or shared MT. DNA with Native lines that link up through Necketie or whomever she turns out to be. The fantom candidate for John Perrot the Quaker ca 1620 is made up from various notions about the Sir John Perrot and John Perrot Jr. Birth to Sybil Johns who most likely did have have a son by Sir John but long before 1620. The people at Geni simply faulted me every single day for not understanding how the story fit together...now I believe I understand it perfectly....and not one of the CURATORS found my father's reference John Perratt II I did that shortly after starting the discussion here. So Please ease up....on the condemnation. Yes it's complicated and messey but it will turn out as Dad said it would considering the Phillips line matches I have are Sir John Perrot's daughter Jane who married Phillips of Picton Castle...those folks have R1b Haplogroup but Jane's first Son Robert Phillipts who later emigrated to AMERICA and connects to my Rice's are I-1. That's why Perratt was thrown out of the Perrot family 1583. All the linkages are there and every relationship my father told me about is now factually part of the Fabric of History. I told you the completed story just now...I will keep looking for the Values you suggest but I can't do it alone, I am not a researcher, I am a son looking for his grandfather and will not take no for answer unless the DNA shows it. So kindly show me the Doccument that has John Perrot born in Ireland 1620. That's a made up date by a Curator here at Geni. DCR 1948

Thomas of Liether is Perrot's son because Perrot had him arrive in Virginia on the Starr the History of Pembrokshire says he got his inheritence early in 1652 and Perrot received 50 Acres on the York River upon Thomas' arrival. It's in black and white and noted on my Facebook page if yu bother to look. AND my family kept this information hidden because of Cromwell's stolen Army goods which Perrot ap Rice got from the Lort Brothers, his sister married Sampson Lort. You don't have to like it but there it is.

It’s not about liking or not liking.

It’s about verifiable facts.

Come back when you have any.

I missed the slur that the “say 1620” Birth date for John the Quaker Perrot was “‘made up by a Geni curator.” It was not. You need to open up the profile and read the references.

John "the Quaker" Perrot

In fact the estimate of say 1620 is from https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Perrot-199

Their opening paragraph is:

“uaker John Perrot of Waterford
A prominent dissenter in the seventeenth century, early Quaker schismatic John Perrot (c1620-1665) [1] set out to convert the Pope in 1658. He had a wife and children in Waterford but was claimed by contemporaries to come from Sedburgh [2] where he was reputed to have been a blacksmith.”

“Re: Thomas of Liether is Perrot's son because Perrot had him arrive in Virginia on the Starr the History of Pembrokshire says he got his inheritence early in 1652 ...”

I’m sorry, but I have no idea what you’re referring to.

John Perrot the Quaker had no known son & no property in Virginia.

"I am a son looking for his grandfather and will not take no for answer unless the DNA shows it."

What a crock. The DNA *HAS* shown it, repeatedly, but you can't accept that any part of your father's story might be untrue, so you deny and distort the DNA evidence.

Dude, I know *all about* pretty family legends and how messy it gets when they don't fit the facts. Everybody has 'em, some more persistent than others. But if you're serious about doing genealogical research, and not just building castles in the air, you have to be willing to look the facts in the face and see what they really tell you.

You're not, and that's why you're coming in for what you perceive as "persecution" and "condemnation".

By the way, I have been unable to identify "Liether" on any map of Pembrokeshire - there are a couple of places noted as "Lleithyr", but not in close proximity to Tenby so I don't know what's up with that.

Please show me the doccumentation for a birth in 1620 . You can't find it because you would know who his parents were. The only story that makes sense is mine. And you must have forgotten that Perrot ap Rice's son Thomas Price of Liether is mentioned as being taxed on 2 hearths in Pembrookshire journals on line. You read further on that Thomas, son of Pricilla received his inheritence of 50 lbs sterling early, before she passed and no more of thomas is heard of him until he shows up in Virginia March 2, 1652 and Rice Hughes of the James River Greets him on the Starr. Rice hughes then receives 50 acres for importing his Thomas Price of (liether) to Virginia and he marries into the Atkins/Pughe line. I have matches to both Atkins and Pughe. Like I said...follow the DNA.

Maven: Stop putting words in my mouth, John Perrot of Paraquito Pt. is John Perrot Jr born 1591 he married Prunella and sons Robert and Dr. Richard Perrot and those men connect to my maternal line in the USA. I know perfectly well who they are and what you don't accept is that Perrot ap Rice did not die as some have imagined openly here on Geni but went to the USA and used two other names to stay ahead of Cromwell. You don't have to like it but that's my story....Perrot ap Rice = John Perrot the Quaker who had his own trading vessel thanks to his father who salvidged it in Wales 1629.
Liether is the spelling used on Pembrookshire Journals. Miss spelled or not he was taxed on two hearths and disappeared after getting his inheritence from his mother. DCR

I seem to recall that at one point you WERE insisting they were all the same man. That's the trouble with constantly changing your story, no one can keep up with you *and you want it that way*.

You can howl all you want to that Perrott ap Rice "was the same person as" John Perrot the Quaker, but don't expect *anyone* else to believe you. If nothing else, you libel him with BIGAMY, since Priscilla (NOT "Margaret") Littleton ap Rice *was still living* when John Perrot the Quaker was married to Elizabeth somebody with two little girls.

He's John Perrot the QUAKER, not John Perrot the Mormon!!!

We went all over the "trading vessel salvage 1629" thing earlier, though you obviously dumped that down the memory-hole. Perrot ap Rice was still in Tenby raising his family under his own name. Sir JAMES (not John) Perrot was in charge of vessel salvage off the Welsh coast, as part of his Vice-Admiralty duties. And Sir James Perrot had no children. https://biography.wales/article/s-PERR-HAR-1530

Most of the time you don't provide any links to support your claims, and on the rare occasions when you do, the links are invariably so twisted and deformed as to be useless without MAJOR overhaul.