Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the USA - Were you once connected to Donald J. Trump and now you're not?

Erica, I'm not able to see pages 50-52.

The link you provide does not have any details on Donald J. Trump pedigree:
https://vitabrevis.americanancestors.org/2015/12/update-ancestors-a...

Dear private

I apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry. I have been at school all day, limited to following this discussion from my phone without the ability to examine the evidence or marshal the facts.

You do have a point about the name of the wife of Donald, but I think that it is unlikely that there were two Donald MacLeods with the nickname "Old Trojan." Donald Macleod of Bernera is "Old Trojan." The book does not list a wife named Janet, but I read his three wives to be Anne, Margaret Macdonald and Margaret Macleod (no Isabels). I must have overlooked correcting the name of the wife when I edited the tree as I was focused on the male line of descent. I apologize for that.

Putting the names of the wives aside. The basic fact that the line of descent previously listed, John Finlay --> Donald --> Donald "Old Trojan"-->John "The Tutor," is not supported by evidence remains as Donald Jr. is implied not to have surviving descendants and there is no evidence for Old Trojan having another son Donald. As I mentioned previously, if someone has some form of proof to support this connection then I urge them to come forward and I would be delighted to add the connection back. But, the onus to provide evidence of this connection is not with those, like myself, who question its validity for the reasons which I have explained, rather it is with those who wish to assert that the connection is factual.

As for our Icelandic genealogist, I do not know where he got his lineage from but I don't believe that he did the proper research to verify his connection which I would expect from a "professional genealogist." The line which he references goes through Catherine/Christian MacLeod and has been dis-proven for a while now by other professional genealogists. See the about section of that profile for more information.

In any case I have reached out to Oddur Helgason of Facebook (with the hope that he speaks English) and have asked if he would mind sharing his sources with us.

As mentioned above I know that it is exciting to have interesting genealogical connections and disappointing when they disappear. But, if those connections are not based on factual evidence or in many of these cases are the result of mistakes or outright fabrications then we should not be so sad to see them go because they never had any validity in the first place and only befuddle the truth.

Sincerely,
Tamas Caldwell-Gilbert

Kelly,

John of Gaunt,1st Duke of Lancaster is my 18th great grandfather and this link still connects to Marla Maples and to Tiffany Trump, who is my19th cousin twice removed.
Tiffany Trump

John of Gaunt
→ Elizabeth Plantagenet his daughter
→ Lady Constance de Holland her daughter
→ Lady Alice Knyvett her daughter
→ Sir Edmund Knyvett, of Buckenham her son
→ Sir Thomas Knevet his son
→ Elizabeth Tylle his daughter
→ John Tylle her son
→ John Till of the Hawthorne his son
→ John Talley, of Jamestown his son
→ Nathan Talley his son
→ William Talley his son
→ Richard Talley his son
→ Tucker Talley his son
→ George Talley his son
→ Guilford Talley his son
→ Maria Ann Plummer his daughter
→ George Plummer her son
→ Anna Blackwell his daughter
→ Lura Locklear her daughter
→ Lura Maples her daughter
→ Marla Maples her daughter

private The article is in copyright; Roland Baker previously summarized it for us, though. I am asking him to take another look at Catherine/Christian MacLeod for us, so let’s wait to see what he says.

I have a login to AmericanAncestors but am not a current subscriber. I imagine I will subscribe again in the future: it has the best professional publications.

Tamas Caldwell-Gilbert, you are quite a polite young man and I encourage you to keep up with your studies. Thank you! I will continue to look into what you have said, but I thank you for noticing the data that I have provided that you have overlooked and if we could restore this data somehow, it would be helpful. Often the female pedigree gets overlooked and it's such a shame.

I'm still very curious about what you said: "the line which he references goes through Catherine/Christian MacLeod and has been dis-proven for a while now by other professional genealogists" and I will get back to you.

M Foss N.

P.S. I am related to many Dukes/Princes, Princess, Kings and Queens ~ I am not bragging, but explaining to you that it's not so much that it's disappointing when one "disappears" from my family tree as there are several other lines of nobility. I'm also the product of several royal mistresses! In any event, you must be aware that when it comes to the pedigree of President Donald J Trump tempers will flair and there is a bit of "political interference." I wish only to maintain accuracy.

https://www.geni.com/discussions/198109?msg=1306662 Tamas is saying that Christian/Catherine MacLeod is an obscure figure, and this has been known for several years. Not trying to put words in his mouth though ! Tamas is an excellent genealogist.

As Erica Howton mentioned above, the parentage for Catherine MacLeod appears not to be known as the necessary records have not been found yet.

Scottish genealogy before the 19th century is generally quite tricky to research. In part because standardized genealogical record keeping was not introduced in the United Kingdom until the mid 1800s and also because there is not much "variety" in the names used, with many people having similar names. For example a quick search on scotlandspeople.gov.uk which is the national online archive for Scottish genealogical records returns 23 Donald MacLeods born between 1650-1750, non of which appear to be either of the Donalds we have been discussing here. Most of the results appear to be from the Inverness area so that also suggests very spotty coverage for the entire nation.

When doing Scottish research online, and I have done a bit with my own family tree, it is very easy to connect unrelated people because they might have the same name. In part this is because of the suggested record matching features of websites like Ancestry.com. While it is generally quite good for U.S. genealogy, it is problematic with English genealogy and downright terrible for Scottish and Irish research (and nearly unusable for Latin American records), as you can very easily get wrong or multiple, conflicting recommendations, which even if careful attention is paid can very easily derail a family tree even if one is on the lookout for it.

I would posit that many of the incorrect trees which I and others have disconnected are the result of well-meaning research which falls into the trap of following the suggested record matches, leading to unproven or incorrect genealogies.

And while Tamas was writing that, I was able to verify that the tree for Commissary Donald MacLeod, of Whitefield near Thurso is an entirely different location in Scotland (this is the Ancestry wrongly ascribed to “his” Christian/Catherine McLeod).

There is a published “Genealogical Account” - Mackay, Angus, The Book of Mackay, Edinburgh, Scotland: Norman Macleod, 1906, p. 255. Google book: https://books.google.com/books?id=GiMNAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA255&dq...

His daughter Catherine Elisabeth Macleod married William Telford, of Skerry

Reference: Scotland Marriages, 1561-1910: Name: William Telford Spouse's Name: Catherine Elisabeth Mcleod Event Date: 29 May 1843 Event Place: Thurso, Caithness, Scotland

So this is a different person, and the tree entered by Judith "Judi" Elaine (McKee) Burns , bard on the book, looks correct. The one error I found was not hers.

The descent of the Mackay’s from Edward lll (I think it’s supposed to be) breaks on the impossible chronology of this woman

Isabella Munro

She’s listed at Electric Scotland as a daughter of Reverend Hugh Munro & Hon. Anna Mackay - both born well after this Isabel must have been in order to have a child b c 1649.

In addition, Anna Mackay’s parentage is questioned: “The 2003 edition of BP does not give the 1st Lord Reay a daughter Anna, whether married to Hugh Munro, minister of Durness, or anyone else. The same is true for the account of Reay in SP.”

For accountability purposes, I'm noting two disconnections I've just made:

1. Alexander MacLeod has been disconnected from John Finlay MacLeod and Christian MacLeod who had been listed as Alexander's parents. There is no known evidence for this relationship.

2. Kenneth MacLeod has been disconnected from Duncan MacLeod who had been listed as Kenneth's father. There is no known evidence for this relationship.

Since John, Christian, and Duncan have no ancestry listed, ***this change will not impact your relationship paths***.

If anyone finds primary sources allowing us to reconnect those proposed parents, please feel free to post here in the discussions. No British or American genealogists have been able to find any so far.

Erica Howton, NEHGS also has no parents known for Ann MacKenzie. I will let you decide how you'd like to proceed with that one since you're the curator.

(And once again, this is a disconnection that would not impact anyone's paths.)

If anyone is looking for a way to contribute to fixing up and documenting President Trump's ancestry, here is an opportunity for you:

In addition to no parents, NEHGS has no known death date or cause for Duncan Smith. Can you find records verifying the date and cause given on his profile, making sure that it matches the correct Duncan Smith? If so, we can add them to the profile.

Catherine Beaton & John MacKenzie were married Nov 1814

But Ann MacKenzie was born December 30, 1811
Back, Stornoway, Scotland.

It is possible she was born before they married. But there’s no other supporting data, and it’s a common name for the area. I’m disconnecting and hope researchers will add more information.

Margaret Campbell is another with parents listed. It looks like the source is a FamilySearch pedigree. As with Duncan Smith, we could use someone to verify the date and location on her profile.

I'm really glad Tamás got us going with this, because it turns out our MacLeod tree had gotten a bit sloppy in parts, and now we're making sure we have the accuracy befitting a presidential tree. Thank you, everyone!

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert I’m changing my mind about Isabella Munro

Her first husband died c 1657, her 2nd husband was ordained 1653 & obtained MA 1657; it is unlikely he married before then. So Isabella could be a child of Anna’s. Take a look - this is where the Iceland article jumped the Scottish Islands to the wrong ones.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000097604830924&

Getting better dates going for Isabella’s children would help nail this, one way or another.

Another thing people can do if they'd like to help:

The Washington Post has a treasure trove of documents from Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the USA's life, including an entire section of family history records. People can upload those documents to the relevant profiles and tag the associated facts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/trump-revealed-boo...

The suggested line to President Trump for me goes through what I like to call "points of synchronicity' and several non-genetic proposed connections. This is fun, but meaningless. I do, however, hope that someday a connection might be found between Mary Ann McLeod and my Normand McLeod, rather than through the non-genetic line suggested in Geni. My 3rd. ggrandfather was a Norman McLeod and is buried in the Dutch Reformed Church Cemetery in Claverack, Columbia Co., N.Y. His tombstone shows him as having died 24 January,1809, aged 85 years, 4 months and 15 days. This (if correct) would put his birthdate as 9 September 1723. The closest match in ScotlandsPeople is a Norman McLeod Christened 14 July 1723 in Inverness as son of Donald McLeod and Jean Dinn, but this date is at odds with my Norman's death information? Another Normand McLeod was christened 21 September 1729 to a Donald McLeod in Petty, Inverness, about 8 years after my Norman's projected birth date. My theory is that my Norman probably came to America as a soldier during the French Indian War and stayed after his discharge, as did many others. I could not connect him to the well known officer of the name who received grants after the war. It appears the above Jean Dinn was born 27 April 1701 in Inverness as daughter of James Dinn and Margrat Grantt, which is a good fit. Hopefully, President Trump's mother's line will get the attention of the best Scottish Genealogists, which might help us all understand it better?

>>>> "Hopefully, President Trump's mother's line will get the attention of the best Scottish Genealogists, which might help us all understand it better?"

They've actually been hard at work for the past five years, but the records simply aren't there. It's comparable to trying to do research on Southern U.S. ancestors in burned counties -- the necessary records, if they existed, didn't survive.

So there are a few speculative lines back from Mary MacLeod, but only a couple dozen of her ancestors can actually be proven.

Erica, please see page 250-251 of the History of the Macleods.

According to the History of the Macleods, pages 250-251, Donald Macleod of Bernera was generally spoken as "The Old Trojan" and he was married three times:
1. Anne daughter of Roderick Macleod, VII of Macleod
2. Isabel, daughter of Kenneth, third Earl of Seaforth
3. Isabel, sister of George, first Earl of Cromarty.

Donald Macloed of Bernera 1693-1783 (aka "Donald "Old Trojan" MacLeod)
Donald 'Old Trojan' Macleod

P.S. I suppose we also need Obama's birth certificate for proof. Please disconnect him. (Kidding of course, but it illustrates the level of pettiness as many have questioned his birth credentials). The rule of disconnecting at Geni.com appears subjective and not objective being my point.

private

Think about what we do know. Read the biographies, the census reports, the conditions in her village when she emigrated. Her people for generations before were fishermen and crofters.

Then read the profile for the Earl of Seaforth. For the Earl of Cromarty.

Come back when you’ve done that and explain how Earl’s children become fishermen and crofters.

I am incorrect. Donald Macloed of Bernera 1693-1783 (aka "Donald "Old Trojan" MacLeod) was married three times and it is confusing!

Wife #1: Anne.
Page 250 reads, "Donald married, first, when only 18 years of age, Anne,
daughter of Roderick Macleod, XVII. of Macleod, by his
wife Isabel, daughter of Kenneth, third Earl of Seaforth, by his wife, also Isabel, sister of George, first Earl of Cromarty."

Wife #2: Margaret Macdonald.
Page 253 reads" "He married, secondly, Margaret Macdonald, described as "a daughter of John Macdonald Gorm Macdonald of Sleat." They lived together for nineteen years, without issue."

Wife #3: Margaret, dauther of Rev. Doanld Macloed, III, Of Greshornish.
Page 253 reads: "Donald Macleod of Bernera married, thirdly, in the 75th
year of his age, Margaret, daughter of the Rev. Donald
Macleod, III. of Greshornish, and minister of Duirinish. She was then only sixteen years of age. By this marriage Donald had issue, in his old age—three sons and six
daughters.

And none of them were fishermen & crofters on the Isle of Lewis.

You’re reading old books. The people who descend from them know who they are, because they have their family history written down in what you’re reading.

Erica, we're having many different discussions. There are many Earls of Seaforth. I believe you are talking about the Third Earl of Seaforth?

Kenneth Mackenzie, 3rd Earl of Seaforth, is my 7th cousin 7 times removed, who married Lady Forbes who is also my cousin (6th cousin 8 times removed). I come from a long line of Forbes and it is from this clan that I used to have a connection to President Donald J. Trump.

Kenneth Mackenzie, third Earl of Seaforth
Kenneth Mackenzie, 3rd Earl of Seaforth

Incidentally, the book I'm reading was provided by Tamas Caldwell-Gilbert. It is "History of the MacLeods."

private

I’m working on the Ancestry of President Trump. You’re working on something else, because it’s not his known ancestry.

Susan Angeline Schumacher Lostetter I wonder if I could interest you in a little tree expansion?

I sourced out John MacLeod & Mary Macritchie & their son Donald MacLeod

And there are more kids and possibly their spouses.

The site is https://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=lewisandother...

They quote the 1841 and 1851 census.

I’ll try to images loaded to profiles but no promises on how quickly I can get this done, so anyone with access - hop in.

This couple is the “tree top” on this McLeod family for now.

Thanks for your work Erica! I'm also working on the pedigree for Donald J. Trump as you know there are many branches.

You asked me to "read the profile for the Earl of Seaforth. For the Earl of Cromarty.
Come back when you’ve done that and explain how Earl’s children become fishermen and crofters." I was asking you which "Earl of Seaforth" I should read as there are many.

Do you know who this profile's parent's would have been?....

John Macleod

Diana Collins, you'd need to start with looking at the sources for that information to make sure it's accurate. Do you have them handy?

Only source I'm finding with those dates and locations is a GEDCOM that was uploaded to FamilySearch in January 2017, possibly from here: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:3861-RTP

If there are sources attached, I don't see them.

I did find a John MacLeod in the 1869 Scottish death records, but he was a 7-month-old.

private Don’t read any Earl’s would be my suggestion - or “any” of them.

I’d suggest studying this page to give yourself a picture of the context of his ancestors:

http://www.trumpgolfscotland.com/Default.aspx?p=dynamicmodule&p...