Alice (Flake?) Gwaltney - Did Alice Flake, wife of William Gwaltney, exist?

This is re: Ann, wife of Edward Boykin, Sr:

https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/boykin/1509/

NOTE:Recent researchers (Nov. 2003) stated that Ann Gwaltney could not have been the wife of Edward Boykin, Sr.They say it is more likely that she was the wife ofJohn Boykin, son of Edward Sr.* Your compiler is no longer showing Ann Gwaltney as the wife of this Edward Boykin, Sr.

See notes under son John.
More About Edward Boykin, Sr.:
Burial: Abt. 03 Apr 1725, Isle of Wight County, Virginia

The 4 gen problem:

https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/boykin/1509/

Note:Ann Gwaltney's great-grandmother Alice Warren was born in 1645, per her 1677 deposition at age 32.There is no way 4 generations could squeeze into less than the probable 45 years between the two women.Time constraints lead to the following lineage:

Alice Warren, b. 1645 mar. Matthias Marriott
Margaret Marriott, b. ca. 1660 mar. Robert Flake, Jr.
Alice Flake, b. ca. 1675 mar. William Gwaltney
Ann Gwaltney, b. 1690 mar. someone named Boykin and had a son named Edward Boykin mentioned in grandfather Gwaltney's will. This seems to indicate that the women married at the age of 15.

Edward Boykin, Sr. was having children in the 1670-1680 time period but their mother was not Ann Gwaltney.It is more likely she was married to John Boykin, son of Edward, Sr.

Cross referencing previous discussion:

https://www.geni.com/discussions/123617?msg=873506

Especially:

Alice Flake was the d/o Mathias Flake and Alice Warren, d/o Capt. Thomas Warren, bapt. Jan. 30, 1624; ob. ante Sept. 24, 1670, Surry County. Will Book 1, p. 377. http://longfield.webs.com/

Nancy Edger
5/25/2013 at 1:37 PM
Report
From "Historical Southern Families" by Boddie Vol. 2, 1958
--William Gwaltney, son of Mary and Thomas Gwaltney, was a horseman in the Surry Militia in 1687, and in the Quit Rents of 1704, he held 400 acres and his son, William, 225. He married Alice Flake, daughter of Robert Flake and his wife Margaret Marriott, granddaughter of Captain Thomas Warren.

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In other words, this is the argument “for.”

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I don’t have an answer. Experience does tell me that Southern women in this period are difficult to identify and older theories change. So “without” doing a detailed analysis down the Marriott / Warren tree, and especially in light of possible claimed Royal Ancestry, I tend to accept the more skeptical 2002 position.

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Discussion more than welcome.

This controversial profile needs to be fixed:

Anne Boykin was perhaps wife of John Boykins, not his father Edward. Suggest a new Ann Boykin profile in the daughter position to made and linked to John Boykin, I with overview notes, then we can disconnect Ann wife of Edward from parents. She’s too old to have been their daughter, it seems.

Ann Evans Needs sourcing or detaching

Here’s the page in Boddie for reading

https://media.geni.com/p13/3f/43/bb/4a/5344484c61f97c09/southernfam...

Note: he does not identify which Boykin William Gwalthey’s daughter Anne married. The one with a son Edward. :)

Here’s the discussion about the Boykin wives from Wikitree

John Bennett Boddie states that that her name was Ann Gwalthney, the daughter of William Gwaltney, Sr. He cites the Will of William Gwaltney, Sr.: "Wm. Gwaltney 'gave his GRANDSON EDWARD BOYKIN one cow'. This was Edward Boykin, Jr., who returned an account of the estate of his father Edward Boykin, March 1730 - 31, in Isle of Wight."[Emphasis in original][2]

Some state that there is evidence that the wife of Edward Boykin Sr. was actually Ann Williamson, giving the following lineage:

Edward1 Boykin, Sr. was born Abt. 1650 in Huntingdonshire, Kent County, England, and died Bef. 27 May 1728 in Isle of Wight County, Virginia. He married Ann Williamson Abt. 1675 in Isle of Wight County, Virginia, daughter of William Williamson and unknown. She was born Abt. 1650 in Virginia, and died Bef. 1730 in Isle of Wight, Virginia.[1]

Boddie states that Ann Williamson may have been the wife of Edward's son John, but he also states that there is no proof.[2]

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gwaltney-8 Citing also https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/boykin/1509/

I have Ann Williamson 1679-1760 married to John Boykin, Sr 1704-1795. Have him also married to Elizabeth Cherry Joyner 1710-1749 but I have accepted the Ann wife d/t DNA matches with her line.

I have John's parents as William Boykin Sr and Margaret Vicars but I do not see him as having been added as their son in the curated profile.

Margaret Vicar

Can you get the profiles detailed with children at least listed in profiles? I just spent an hour on Gwaltney. Thanks !

I have held off merging /adding my John since others differ on the opinion of the mother. I have worked on other lines since this one has so much confusion.

John Boykin, I, Southampton, VA

Erica Howton
Adding some sources, media, to William Boykin, Sr.
Will work on the children names

John is already there as son of William and first wife FNU Burwell.

A second son with FNU Burwell is listed as son of Margaret Vicars, which is opposed to the FindaGrave and Rootsweb.

William W. Boykin, II

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/98205037

https://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:3373541&...

In the profiles as a child list I can read. I am helpless without it. Copy / paste into the about from Wikitree or Findagrave etc is fine, with a link in the profile. I’m serious about this, I just can’t work on any sort of tree sorting without that kind of list “in” the profile. If the member doesn’t do it, eventually I will - after the other 300 requests. :)

I am doing this there already.
I have not made a personal request. Aware you are busy.
I did not start this discussion. Any profile can wait. I am simply responding d/t is my line.
Thank you as always.

Choosing Ann (AKA "FNU") Burwell over Margaret Vicars as mother of John.