Christian Waddington (unknown) - Relationship to Ka Okee cut?

Started by Laura McKenzie, A125538 LM2 on Thursday, May 30, 2019
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Related Projects:

Showing 31-60 of 223 posts

For people interested in the Pettus family, apparently this book is well done.

“Thomas Petyous of Norwich, England and his Pettus descendants in England and Virginia" by William Walker Pettus IV, pub 2011.

https://books.google.com/books/about/Thomas_Petyous_of_Norwich_Engl...

Who's starting this rumor? 😡

Christian Pettus Martin, 1636-1701, was the mother of Christian Martin who married William Evans. Some of you have him as Evan Williams. That is incorrect.

Francis Waddington was the 2nd husband

The Fugate / Martin SNPs 10 4 is same as for the Gallop to Elkins matchers.
Those with endogamy from both have this SNP and ferreted out for this connection to make sure it is not a different reason as to why Martins and Bryants triangulate on what is called the Fugate -Martin Signature Cluster of 10 4, known for a few years now. It is not a problem to figure out, even for NPE lines with not name peoples when the cM chromosome map leads distant cousins, some with Martin trees and some with Fugate trees to the very same ancestors.

Private Can you translate that into simple English?

What is the supposed connection between Bryant and Martin? Christian1 was an ancestress of Martins, Waddingtons, McPhees, and more .... but “not” of anyone Elkins, because her great grandson James Elkins (Christian2 > Mary Williams) died young. All the surviving Elkins of that generation would be from the Bryant wife.

James Elkins

Here’s the Marriage record for Mary Williams and Richard Elkins:

https://media.geni.com/p13/43/30/92/4b/5344484c0e8f93dd/bce351a5-8e...

Now, I wonder if I need to correct myself about James Elkins. He’s living and an adult signing indentures and married???

1711-1714 Richmond Co VA Deed Book 6; Antient Press: (Page 37)
HIS INDENTURE made betwixt JAMES ELKINS of Richmond County of one party and THOMAS JEFFEREYS of aforesd. County of the other party; Wittnesseth that JAMES ELKINS hath demised sett and to farm lett and doth by these presents farme lett part of one hundred acres of land lying in the aforesaid County which was given to me by my Grandfather, EVAN WILLIAMS, in consideration of the rents hereafter mentioned and dureing the terme of two naturall lives of the aforesd. THOMAS JEFFEREYS and SYLENT JEFFEREYS his Wife or longest liver of them together with all the edificies woods and ye tract of land and I the said JAMES ELKINS do give said THOMAS JEFFEREYS leave to seat upon any part or parcell of the said Land onely the Plantation excepted whereon I now live and I the said THOMAS JEFFEREYS do oblige my selfe not to sell nor make no waste of any Timber; To have & to hold the parcell of land with all the appurtenances to said THOMAS JEFFEREYS and SYLENT his Wife dureing their natural! lives paying a yearly rent upon the Twentieth of October Ten pounds of good sound Leafe Tobbo: and one Capon Cock or Pullett to said JAMES ELKINS his heirs and THOMAS JEFFEREYS his Wife to enjoy the said Land peaceably and quietly wth:out the disturbance of me said JAMES ELKINS or my heirs or any person that shall lay any clayme to the said land, As Wittness whereof we have sett our hands and fin our seales the day and yeare above written
Signed Sealed and Delivered in the presence of
RICHARD GRIFFIN, JAMES his marke ELKINS
RICHARD BRYAN
This Lease was acknowledged in Richmond County Court the 5th day of March 1711 and admitted to Record Test JNO: TAYLOE, D. Cl.

See more at https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0319...

Which is showing Richard Elkins with two sons James ...

Ok, so the dates push back for Joseph Elkins to accommodate him; born before 1712 and living in 1732. The trail goes cold after that.

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0319...

Still nothing to do with Pettus lands or persons that I see.

I guess another point I need to emphasize that is confusing me about Christian1 and the Deyo Hypothesis:

Her sister.

unknown ‘Eleanor’ Goldsby

She’s not in the Pettus pedigree. She’s not in the Ka Okee tree. Yet clearly she existed and had at least one child, and we have records of depositions attesting to the kinship as well as land transactions with her daughter’s families.

“The Last Will and Testament of FRANCES LAMPTON, deced. was this day was proved in open Court by the Oaths of MARY MARTIN and ELIZABETH SPEARS, two of the witnesses thereto, and admitted to Record
- MARTIN's ack. to LAMPTON
JOHN MARTIN and MARY his Wife came into Court and acknowledged their Deeds of Lease and Release for Land unto WILLIAM LAMPTON which was admitted to Record”

(Is this is the John & Mary Martin with a daughter married Fugate?)

So how are these women explained?

We don’t know anything about the parents of Christian Martin Waddington and her unnamed sister, the mother of Frances Goldsby (unclear whether maiden or first husbands name) White Lampton. Frances had no children by any of her husbands no known siblings; her property went to her Martin cousins. If the land records exist, the original patentee might be a clue. Neither Christian not Frances exists in records until late in the 1600’s. Christian and her sister most likely came to America as indentured servants and were born in England.

There is absolutely nothing that connects them with any Indians or with the Pettus family who were of a very different social class.

A daughter or granddaughter of John Martin, Jr (son of Christian and John) married a Fugate who was the son or grandson of Dorothy Pettit/Pettus.

Where no primary sources exist, Geni accepts SNPs. For this, we have this:

#Elkins #Goldsby #Powell #Lavendar #Bryant of the native group... and #Martin . . . all mine...all Hodges Ferry connected...all Monican Town relay station connection in Colonial Wars. Same reason Coyal and Bill Deyo and I relate to 100s of X matchers on the 23 at 35, 48 and 135.
Edit or delete this
Like
· Reply · 34m

SNP =23 at 35, 48, 136 ---- 3 clusters of Josiah Fugate md to Martin test kits who overlap on triangulations where originally claimed over a year ago with this chromosome mapped connection was made. We know this is right because of the chromosome 1-22 in Painings App reverifying at their claimed SNP of 4 10 SNP for Martin -Fugate cousins who claim "Ka Okee" that they match in the same ways to the claimants whose lines were not disconnected.

That is passing on the word from 60 plus matchers who reverified their 23rd chromosome matches last night, together. Passing it on.

@Erica Howton

That same record you posted above for the marriage record of Mary Williams/Richard Elkins shows the marriage record for Mary Gallop/Richard Elkins (different Richard Elkins)

Cropped closeup image showing Richard1 Elkins m Mary Williams and Richard2 Elkins m Mary Gallop.

https://media.geni.com/p13/75/b4/96/a0/5344484c11ebb5c3/394e8f61-25...

Married Well and Often: Marriages of the Northern Neck of Virginia, 1649-1800 (2003) page 124. Cropped image.

One of the issues I’ve noticed in atDNA studies is aligning the detected relationships with chronology. This makes sense as a challenge to be addressed. For example, I was just wondering aloud (again) why my “ethnicity estimates” show a % of Scandinavian when I have no known recent emigrants. Like many of us I can trace back some lines to very early arrivers to North America from England, Scotland and Northern Ireland: and that’s a possible answer to the estimate - Viking settlement & intermarriage in the British Islands, when ????

Because the X or the 23 stores up alleles and is called the sticky gene. The genetic term is ativism. It downloads generations later and can store it up for 1000 years.

And atDNA studies won’t show “when.” Y DNA & mtDNA studies with calculated mutation rates might more readily. Apologies for being unscientific about this, it’s been well described by others & I’m sure it’s well known.

So when the DNA studies show related family groups, and I know I’m in there on some of them, I’m not questioning those results. Geography says a lot. If you had early arrivers to Virginia’s Northern Neck, as I did (I think!), odds are good there is going to be a relationship somewhere: there were only so many people to marry.

But that brings me to another important point just touched on & that needs expansion, in my opinion: class and money. The Pettus family was wealthy and prominent, they’ve made the history books. The Martins and Elkins ? Not as much. Is that just record loss? No. We have records of many land transactions. We have the lists of Burgesses. We have vestrymen in the church. We have correspondence. We have tobacco sales, wills, Probate records, and other court records.

Look at Christian1’s deed of gift to her grandson James1 Elkins, it’s carefully detailing her property to be sold or increased for his education costs, residue to be given to him at age 23. No slaves. No land. Personal property including household goods. Some good livestock. She signs with her mark. Her witnesses are not “important people.”

She’s a farmer. She’s not from the same class as the Pettus family from what I can see so far.

Re: Because the X or the 23 stores up alleles and is called the sticky gene. The genetic term is ativism. It downloads generations later and can store it up for 1000 years.

—-

Exactly my point. We don’t know “when.”

Correction: Christian1’s “great” grandson.

1. Christian1
2. Christian2
3. Mary Williams
4. James Elkins

(See how easy it is to loose track of time ?)

4. James1 Elkins was the grandson of Evan Williams & inherited 100 acres from him.

——
https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0319...

711-1714 Richmond Co VA Deed Book 6; Antient Press: (Page 37)
HIS INDENTURE made betwixt JAMES ELKINS of Richmond County of one party and THOMAS JEFFEREYS of aforesd. County of the other party; Wittnesseth that JAMES ELKINS hath demised sett and to farm lett and doth by these presents farme lett part of one hundred acres of land lying in the aforesaid County which was given to me by my Grandfather, EVAN WILLIAMS, in consideration of the rents hereafter mentioned and dureing the terme of two naturall lives of the aforesd. ...

——

5. Joseph Elkins was the son of James1 Elkins and stepson of Benjamin Rush

—-

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0319...

1721-1735 King George County Deed Book 1-A, (Antient Press); pp. 225-227
Indenture 30th/31st August 1732 between JOSEPH ELLKINS of County of King George Planter and JAMES JONES of same Bricklayer .. by deeds of lease and release .. for forty pounds current money of Virginia sold 250 acres in Parish of Brunswick King George County .. 100 acres part thereof now in Tenure of one RICHARD ELLKINS and 150 acres the residue in Tenure of one BENJAMIN RUSH .. ...

Correction again: Christian2 was the grandmother of James1 Ekins. She was a widow Williams on 12 January 1695 when she signed her deed of gift.

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0407...

We now understand better that after 1695, she married again to Rev Waugh & then for a 3rd time to Hawkins.

Mary Williams was Christian2’s only known child.

Was the deed of gift triggered by a decision to remarry & therefore preserving her personal property intact? Rev Waugh was a controversial person.

For the 60 matchers, on the X, in the time frame of 1500 - 1600, we can rule out Euro and when enough are matching on Martin at the cM that is right at generation 10, we can tell when the Martin cousins were matching, yes; gen 9 and 10 and then back to non Euro Martin for the rest of the time frame.

I was referring to you Scandanavian download on your X when I was stating why alleles clump up. That does not disregard the X matches to the Martin matching people on the X.

Also, the time frame can be determined with the amount of cM on the X just like it can with the 1-22 analysis. If it couldn't be, no one would use it.

You have to translate that into a chronology for me tacked to persons. Is that possible?

Which Martin who lived when are we talking about, for instance? I am not someone to discuss atDNA analysis with, my knowledge is too limited. Dates though I understand.

A decade ago, scientists called it “junk DNA” but NOW we KNOW it recombines.
I believe Coyal’s line was also disconnected!?

This is not on Christian, but it has to do with her family (Elkins, Bryant, Williams, Jeffries/Jeffreys. Note the Sylent Jeffrey's mentioned???? That is none other than Sylent Bryant daughter of Richard & Anne Bryant

1711-1714 Richmond Co VA Deed Book 6; Antient Press: (Page 37)
HIS INDENTURE made betwixt JAMES ELKINS of Richmond County of one party and THOMAS JEFFEREYS of aforesd. County of the other party; Wittnesseth that JAMES ELKINS hath demised sett and to farm lett and doth by these presents farme lett part of one hundred acres of land lying in the aforesaid County which was given to me by my Grandfather, EVAN WILLIAMS, in consideration of the rents hereafter mentioned and dureing the terme of two naturall lives of the aforesd. THOMAS JEFFEREYS and SYLENT JEFFEREYS his Wife or longest liver of them together with all the edificies woods and ye tract of land and I the said JAMES ELKINS do give said THOMAS JEFFEREYS leave to seat upon any part or parcell of the said Land onely the Plantation excepted whereon I now live and I the said THOMAS JEFFEREYS do oblige my selfe not to sell nor make no waste of any Timber; To have & to hold the parcell of land with all the appurtenances to said THOMAS JEFFEREYS and SYLENT his Wife dureing their natural! lives paying a yearly rent upon the Twentieth of October Ten pounds of good sound Leafe Tobbo: and one Capon Cock or Pullett to said JAMES ELKINS his heirs and THOMAS JEFFEREYS his Wife to enjoy the said Land peaceably and quietly wth:out the disturbance of me said JAMES ELKINS or my heirs or any person that shall lay any clayme to the said land, As Wittness whereof we have sett our hands and fin our seales the day and yeare above written
Signed Sealed and Delivered in the presence of
RICHARD GRIFFIN, JAMES his marke ELKINS
RICHARD BRYAN
This Lease was acknowledged in Richmond County Court the 5th day of March 1711 and admitted to Record Test JNO: TAYLOE, D. Cl.

https://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I0407...

Re: Sylent Bryant daughter of Richard & Anne Bryant ...

Excellent, that’s the kind of affiliations we’re looking for: can you tag “which” Richard and Anne Bryant?

——-

Just randomly noting from a post by William Pettus:

“... Recently, my proof argument that Thomas II had a son Stephen (not the one mentioned above) was accepted by the Jamestowne Society’s genealogist (see my previous posting on the subject). Stephen married Mary Dabney, daughter of Capt. George Dabney. Their descendants were termed “Dabney-Pettuses” by author P. H. Stacy. The Dabney-Pettus line is the only one that can be traced in historical records back to the immigrant Thomas Pettus.“

https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/pettus/941/

Has anything changed about records?

I corresponded with Bill Pettus (the book author) extensively about a year ago and no more records have been found so probably do not exist. Their DNA project also hasn’t made any additional connections.

Showing 31-60 of 223 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion