Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway - Why does my tree break when it comes to Harald's daughter Ingebjørg?

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If it follows Danmarks Adels Aarbog, "DAA" and Gustaf Elgenstierna. "Det Svenska Riddarhuset Stamtavlor", it isn't weak, it reflects what they actually knows.

What you do is nothing but an attack based on grave fallacy, I decided not to report you because it is better to let everyone judge for themselves, whether you're right or completly off track as this has a greater value regarding how other people will react on your previous and future demands in various post where you ask for help cutting lines or profiles.

Hopefully, they will now back off from any hastily action and do nothing about your request without a deeper analyze and consults of managers to seek information or advice from (someone with expertise in the particular area), as your judgement apparently do not hold up to a minimum level regarding quality, which is an absolute requirement when it comes to doing good genealogy.

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Håkan Larsson adlad Dufva till Kertorp samt Lygnö Gift 1:o med Brita Svensdotter. Dotter till slottsloven Sven Andersson Stålhandske och Brita Bengtsdotter Svenske.

Barn (M.): Barn i 1:a giftet:

Lars Håkansson. Ryttmästare. Död 1647. Se Tab. 3
https://www.adelsvapen.com/genealogi/Dufva_i_V%C3%A4sterg%C3%B6tlan...

Else Jørgensdatter Daa

https://finnholbek.dk/getperson.php?personID=I38276&tree=2

What is going on here? Attacks againt people who do real genealogy first hand from records and not adventuring in geni trees without a name nor experience, it seems. And doing that to people who still live in the area and are descendants hundreds of different ways to many of these persons mentioned, not just one or two. Remember that population of whole Finland for example is only 5 million people.

Person who attacks against adelsvapens or Det Svenska Riddarhuset Stamtavlors information (just mentioning few) are having problems. Please save Geni from trolls. Thanks to Ulf and some others that bother to give these people something to think about, of course it is sad when people do not know/bother to learn any other languages then english, google does not do the work nor translate all the info, and there are lots of info still in old papers, not in internet.

This has gone far from the context, after a long line of out of context, I think Ulf tried to bring everybody closer to the idea of big geni world tree, by reminding that we are all connected, even if there would not be 100% proven lines found, these conversations are not for bullying.

A good discussion by Lars Løberg on the subject. "Norwegian Kings and Vikings - Do They Belong in Your Family Tree?

http://www.genealogi.no/publikasjoner/kings-vikings/

His answer is probably not.

The problem in Geni is that rules should be the same for all then, but it is not. Question should be same when we go to our jewish ancestors "only" 1000 years back. Or the kings of Armenia. Or in chinese roots that goes back on 1000 years. No questioning there. But somehow "all" in the north is questioned here :) - the reason must be fame.

My family still lives in same area, same places that my family has lived DNA-proved 6000 years (oldest motherline in europe) my family tree goes the same way as well, and it is not "that long" comparing to these other ancestors Metusalem (Methuselah who was 800 years old) who lived year -3073..and all between 5000 years..still I do no see conversation there nor saying that they just might be "mythical" caracters.

Anyway most of the people alive here in North (In Finland 5 million), Norway about the same, are descendants of all the legendary kings, vikings, priests and farmers that has left children. Just mathematical fact, that genealogy supports and DNA can prove.

We cannot be sure of anything really, not without DNA-testing

First I want to go back to the thread question; Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway - Why does my tree break when it comes to Harald's daughter Ingebjørg?

No it does not, she is listed with 10.000 decendants, some paths goes thrue:
1. Stenkil, king of Sweden
2. Hårek fra Tjøtta
3. Charles VII Sverkersson, King of Sweden

The main reason for not see Ingebjørg as a blue GGM+ depends on your own cache history on Geni, it´s enough to click on Harald´s profile, that will bring up your shortest path when ckecked for relationsip, then, all the other children becoms automatically uncles etc, and the other wives turns up red.

Secondly, I want to answer the question if anyone living today could be his decendants? It is quite simple, first we check if he had any offsprings and then what happened to them, for every generation that follows, it's called genealogy.

By following only the source, we who see Harald as a forfather, are 100% his decendants. By following the chance of misattributed paternity (1-3%), we find that there are a 97% of chance that he is our forefather, and as the paths goes through several of his women and mistress, it do increase the chance even more, as even if one line turns out to be incorrect, several others remains.

The mother always knows who the father is, could here be used to reduce the error rate, as in a given path, just as pathwys that goes by mother to daughter, we only needs to calculate for the amount of men between,them, e.g, if Harald is your 30th ggp, and you have 15 women and 15 men, it gives you automatically a lower rate of misattributed paternity just as if there a several women in a row.

As we do not add every single generations percentage of wrongness, as in if another man than the listed, actually was the father, it does not matter if we have 1 or 15 males to count, the error rate are the same throughout the whole path, 1-3%, and this can only be subject of change when the sources changes, by new findings or DNA. At the same time, when a line is broken (findings gives us another father), it's broken.

Simply put, every Scandinavien ought to be his decendants, as for most of the persons with roots in West Europea and the ones in East with good traceable paths to him.

Not an expert in Genealogy, more of a dabbler - but 50 years worth of "dabbling."

One thing I've found with Norsk ancestry - if the family lived in the same place - since the Viking era - everyone is related. Due to historical circumstances (black death, etc.) gene pool is very small. Thinking outside the box - what I've done several times - find the most important person in that area in the early middle ages - work down their family tree. At a certain point - the names start to look familiar. It doesn't always work - but in a couple cases I've found my way back to the King lines.

Thanks Ulf, exactly. Yep Carl you are right. Northern Finland, Norway, Sweden make their own area Lappland, most of the people still living there, are 1-6th cousins to each other and knowing that, they just might wanna get their spouses from some where else and of course that has happened a lot, getting wife trip- is an old Finnish saying, vaimonhakumatka. Inside whole Finland we can find usually at least one ancestor that make us about 8th-11th cousins. Keeping land in the family, use to be the main purpose for marriages and it still is for reindeer-areas. But of course there has been coming fresh blood from other areas, countries and specially overseas quite a long time. Since Adam and Eve or Adams and Eves, though Finns are to be seen at newest studies in science as "indigenous native people of Europe" having oldest language and totally different DNA. There has also been DNA traits found from here to Scotland a long long time before viking era.

Arthur Wilkings Newkirk III, You clearly understood my comments to be facetious! Your wish is granted. I will send over the magic carpet to accommodate your wish.

Dearest Ulf:

Wikipedia is not to be trusted (and the other link you provided is dead).

Your link is :Adelsvapen-Wiki": https://www.adelsvapen.com/genealogi/Dufva_i_Västergötland_nr_183#T...

You are out of wishes.

M.Foss N.N. , still trying to claim that serious Swedish and Danish royal and noble genealogy work done by experts in their fields are nothing but equal with free fantasy.

I wonder if anyone else reacts negative on your post the way I do, feeling offended, if not, you just might be in the right company. Maybe I am misplaced who thought that this Geni was a serious site?

Thanks Gerhard. I want to know that I'm really connected with people. I think it's my right to challenge fantasies.

You are welcome to my castle anytime Gerhard. =)

Glad you two found each other. Gerhard, I did adress you in https://www.geni.com/discussions/192543?msg=1306176 as you're ruin a profile today.

Good luck with your serious intentions.

M.Foss N. but you stated you have "clean" line, your line is exactly the same then anyone elses :) Seems that you did not challenge that fantasy before stating it. Some of your comments seems bit rude to Ulf? I hope it is nice sarcasm, not ill willed. There are some comments here that Mike could check. When there is a subject here, it would be good to stay in that subject and not spread it totally out of context. Geni needs doers and contributors, who are wiling to study history from books. Your attitude is really negative. Do you have any experience basics of genealogy or are you just using Geni, asking this because you refer Adelsvapen to wiki? as wikipedia? different things.

Ulf, you're only as strong as your weakest link.

I didn't want to believe that my 6th Great Grandfather was a duke, but I did some research and the geni.com people were accurate ~ and I'm very grateful. I don't want to live a fantasy. Perhaps I don't care because I have several links to nobility.

In case you're wondering, I had to buy my own "castle" ~ and I wasn't handed anything in life. I also have two degrees, which apparently qualifies me to be a genealogist around here. LOL.

Sincerely wishing you a good day!
Princess M. Foss N.

Saga mentioned it earlier, "Please save Geni from trolls.".

Yes, I understand that you´re trolling, the same thing that Gerhard have done for a very long time now. Unfortunately, this site's leadership protecs you with pleasure, and the only ones that gets damaged by your trollings are the ones that falls into your trap filled with provocations;

So, don't be provoked. (they actually do not mean anything important).
Do not answer. (There is no good answer to rubbish).
Do not try to correct their errors. (I'm not their parent).

Just let them be until they get bored and find someone else to harass.

Saga, let me help you understand. Yes, I'm poking a little fun in jest because there are some very militant types around here. Not saying that Ulf is one of them. He's actually very sweet. Here's the deal: we're not connected in a clean, well documented line.

Ulf and I are connected through:"Datter 1 Mathiasen / Gyntelberg"
NN Mathiasdatter Gyntelberg

I don't want a 7th great grandmother in my tree that's
"Datter 1 Mathiasen / Gyntelberg"

It's not clean! I have been lobbying to remove it, but others are connected to royal lines through this obscure entry. They won'/t remove it because egos get in the way.

Ulf, I'm not a troll:
Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway is my 29th great grandfather.

M. Foss N.
Datter 1 Mathiasdatter Gyntelberg could be a real daughter, or not. This comment is of a more general nature and not linked specifically to that person.
Unfortunately there are sometimes persons in our familytrees that have no known given names, however we still can know who their parents were due to their coats-of-arms or herited properties; i.e. their father, mother or a sibling is mentioned by name in some official document.
I do not like having 'n.n. Surname' relatives either, but that is how life goes - we just do not have 100% complete historical documented trees. Just 99% certainty that a link is correct is enough for me as long as it can not be disproven by someone with more documented facts. Unfortunately daughters were often neglected in written documents, unless they married someone of importance, or were mothers to such a person.

Let us all work towards reliable trees. Hopefully DNA can help to verify some disputed connections.

I even have a person without a gender in the tree, because I had a source telling that xx was the grandchild of yy, without knowing if the person in between was the father or the mother.

Iiro, thanks for the explanation; however, help me understand:

Datter 1 Mathiasdatter Gyntelberg
NN Mathiasdatter Gyntelberg

Datter 2 Mathiasdatter Gyntelberg
(Datter 2) Mathiasdatter / Gyntelberg

How can I trust Geni Users have accurately applie who is my 8th Great Aunt and who is my 7th Great Grandmother? This is the part I can't understand.

M. Foss N. Adonde quieren llegar? en Alemania un familiar Danés Nacido en Argentina me tradujo los perfiles de

Margrethe
Margrethe is your fifth cousin 11 times removed's wife.
You
→ Juan Iges Blom
your father → Carmen Cristina Madsen
his mother → Ana Hilda Mathiasen
her mother → Lars Mathiasen
her father → Mathias Larsen
his father → Sophie Margrete Mathiasdatter
his mother → Karen Jensdatter
her mother → Kirstine Margrete Christiansdatter
her mother → Christian Jeppesen Bruun
her father → Karen Nielsdatter Bruun
his mother → Niels Frandsen Bruun
her father → Johanne Andersdatter Grøn
his mother → Anders Eriksen Grøn, til Tamdrup Bisgaard
her father → Bodil Markvardsdatter Rodsteen, af Lengsholm, Vorgaard
his mother → Markvard Jensen Rodsteen
her father → Ide Jensdatter Juel
his mother → Maren Jensdatter Jernskjaeg, til Gjørslev
her sister → Peder Lauridsen (Baden)
her son → Mogens Pedersen Baden, til Gundestrup
his son → Kirsten Mogensdatter Lille (Baden), til Gundestrup
his daughter → Eskil Jensen Gyntelberg
her son → Mathias Eskildsen Gyntelberg, Fæster af Mogenstrup Mølle
his son → Margrethe
his wife
NN Mathiasdatter Gyntelberg
(Datter 2) Mathiasdatter / Gyntelberg
NN Mathiasdatter Gyntelberg#/tab/media
• •Randers gejstlige skifte:
• •36 Kirsten Eskildsdatter Gyntelberg i Mariager præstegård. 12.7.1717, fol.126.
• •Enke efter Jens Jørgensen Durup, præst i Rørbæk og Grynderup, [skifte Gislum herred gejstlig 12.8.1709 lbnr.3]. A:
• •0) far [Eskild Jensen Gyntelberg, præst i Rørbæk og Grynderup, død 18.11.1652].
• •Fars andet ægteskab med [Valborg Jensdatter]. B:
• •3) bror Claus Gyntelberg, schoutbynacht, død. B:
• •5 børn, hvis navne ikke angives
• •4) bror Mathias Gyntelberg, forpagter på Sjælland, død. B:
• •2 børn, hvis navne ikke angives
• •5) søster, død. 1B:
• •a Iver Jørgensen Abel i Store Torup.
• •Fars første ægteskab med [Else Jensdatter Durup, død før 1638].
• •1) halvbror Jens [Eskildsen] Gyntelberg, præst i Vive, død. B:
• •2 døtre, hvis navne ikke angives.
• •[Valborg Jensdatters andet ægteskab med successor Jacob Hansen Abel]. B:
• •2) halvbror Hans Jacobsen Abel, forpagter på Vordingborg slot, død. B:
• •a Anne Hansdatter Abel g.m. Pontus [Henriksen] Sparre, præst i Mariager
• •b datter g.m. Schinkel, kaptajn ved det Østerlandske regiment på Sjælland
• •c [Barbara Hansdatter Abel] g.m. Christen Boalt, præst i Vester Tørslev og Svenstrup
• •d datter g.m. Christen [Frandsen] Toxsværd til Skuderupgård [i Øster Egesborg sogn] på Sjælland.
• •Afdøde døde 11.7.1717.
no creo que Geni autorice a destruir perfiles de puro capricho .

M.Foss....MY 29 Grandfather is not ONLY yours! When you go back that far then everybody has him as a grandfather according to mathematics!
Link to WHY we all are related through inbreading: you can google translate

https://www.nyteknik.se/popularteknik/darfor-ar-vi-alla-slaktingar-...

Eva-Liisa, help me understand your frustration with me.

I am certainly not the only great grandchild of "Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway." I never said he's mine alone. As well I have many other 29th Great Grandfathers as do you. I have 10,000 in my family tree, which is a rather broad spectrum that's documented very nicely here on Geni.com. It's a world tree that's been very entertaining, but sometimes inaccurate.

According to Geni.com There is "No path found" from Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway to Eva-Liisa Kukkonen." The fact is that according to the genealogy provided in this forum, it appears that you are not related to him in any way. I'm sorry.

Yes, we are all connected as human beings. We live in one glorious habitat: Earth.
We are DNA related to animals. All humans and pigs share portions of DNA, but they aren’t so closely related that DNA is simple to compare. We are more closely related to primates because the sequences are closer together.

Please do not take offense. I mean no harm and I wish you well.

Dear Gerhard,

Since you interjected and this is the forum for discussion I will continue. You are free to unfollow the discussion.

Please know that Ms. Eva-Liisa Kukkonen wrote to me: "M.Foss....MY 29 Grandfather is not ONLY yours! When you go back that far then everybody has him as a grandfather according to mathematics!"

I never said that Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway is my grandfather alone, and I was responding to her that not everybody has him as a grandfather according to geni.com. I was just laying out the facts as they are presented in geni.com.

Do not confuse facts with arrogance. I am related to many famous people ~ some good, some bad. It's subjective whether or not Trump is good or bad. I happen to like Donald J. Trump, but I understand others do not.

President Donald J. Trump is the direct descendant of Hakon V King of Norway according to Icelandic genealogist Oddur F. Helgason. Mr. Trump is also related to Queen Margrethe II of Denmark, Icelandic President Guðni Th. Johannesson of Iceland, and in fact almost all Icelanders.
https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/culture_and_living/2017/01/24/do...

Best wishes from
~ M.Foss M.

P.S. Gerhard Fiedler is my second great grandfather's wife's first cousin's husband's third great nephew's wife's second cousin's husband. Translation: we are not related.

Sure, here you go...
Geni.com currently says:

Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway
→ No path found to Gerhard Fiedler.

Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the USA
→ No path found to Gerhard Fiedler.

Juan, No entiendo Hija de Foss geni.com

Again, please do not confuse facts with arrogance, Gerhard.

There is a helpful pushpin feature here on Geni that you can use to check your heritage on geni.com to any individual. I used the pushpin to help you understand your relationship to the two individuals in this discussion: Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway and the president of the United States with whom you do not like.

Facts don't care about your feelings, but I'm sorry if your blood pressure is up or that I have somehow upset you. I sincerely mean you no harm and wish you a happy day.

M. Foss N.

Mike Stangel -- has this discussion passed its usefulness?

I'm fine to close the discussion, but can we keep it open to review. The original discussion was on Ingebjørg Haraldsdotter my 28th great grandmother and I'm researching.

private before you insult anyone else, you need to know that the relationship path search on Geni is limited in how far it will search. In particular it limits the number of ancestors it will search up, and the number of descendants it will search down. So while Geni may be able to find your 29th great grandfather (or farther), someone with a very complete / dense set of ancestors may only be able to find paths up to, say, 15th great grandfather. Don't let your lack of understanding make you look foolish.