Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway - Why does my tree break when it comes to Harald's daughter Ingebjørg?

@ Dianna Collins

Dianne this is the same person, his son Jan Pijlijser I is the same as Jan I de Meeuwe de Brabant, recently the manager here on GeniCom changed the data as a result of research.

Please, people, this is a discussion about a relationship to Harald Fairhair and how the sources are backing these claims. (Yes, I know it has developed beyond what Michael Walch asked), but please try to stay on subject. I find the later messages to be way off topic.

@ David Widerberg Howden

There are overlaps in family trees, which reduces the number of ancestors.

Nine generations back in time there is a couple, direct ancestors, in my family tree, a daughter of them is the ancestor of my father, a son of them the ancestor of my mother. (My deceased parents were distant blood relatives, and there are more overlaps in the tree.) This couple, ancestors in the ninth generation, are direct descendants of Jan I van Brabant, meaning that the connection to the Dukes of Brabant is a double connection , these connections are all traceable in archiefs.

Jan I, Hertog van Brabant is my ancestor in 2x the 21st, 1 x the 22nd and 2x the 23rd generation, his natural son, Jan I Pijlijser, de Meeuwede Brabant, knight, lord of Coeckelberge and Huldenberg (both places near Brussels) is my ancestor.
The coat of arms of Pijlijser shows that of the dukes of Brabant coat of arms with an arrow across it.

I am happy that I was born in an area where many historical documents have been preserved, I can see in the archives of the Dukes of Brabant exactly which loans my ancestors owned and how those loans were passed on from father to son.

There are also a large number of notarial documents, documents from municipal councils, documents from monasteries who have received gifts from my ancestors, documents from Catholic Brotherhoods (association of nobles engaged in charity work)
Those ancestors were Knights, Lords of Tilburg, Boxtel, Cuijck, Burggraves of Utrecht, Antwerp, Brussels etc.
Many ancestors also had a public function, mayors, judges, counselors, who all left their names and seals on documents.

Many documents are from before 1200, many are in the Royal Libraries of Brussels and The Hague.
Clear evidence that these people have existed.

Olaf II Skötkonung of Sweden has also provided proof of his existence, the coins he had minted.

It has been unfortunate to read so much dispute and some bad behavior. People should be more civil and cut the ill will here.

And hey hey hey, hold your horses mr. Now I don't understand why a personal attack towards me (No Name) ??

Especially when I have previously written in this "debate" page 6 this, answering Angelina: "... just that it is impossible to know for sure more details about the persons mentioned in sagas or in other written history or stories for long time ago, that goes as well to books of bible, that has been changing for so many times that it is really hard to know what is left to be true or accurate in genealogy point of view."

All that personal and mean attack just because what I wrote to Ulf and saying I HEAR him. He knows what I was referring about. There are Geni-fb pages where it is impossible to work anymore. I have had lots of help from many American and Norwegian curators and maaaany Finnish quiet workers, who does not make noise about themselves ever. Then there has been some out of line curatoring not good nor accurate and wont even go there anymore, that has been seriously delt before.

In Geni I try to tribute to the big tree what I can mainly checking all the possible records microfilmed. So why such attack and shooting information towards me?? :D

Sorry Saga, if you felt offended. I apologize if I misunderstod.

People leave geni and you leave groups because of dictatorship?

" It is hopeless dictature sadly." you wwrote this.

@ John Hughes CURRY, Jr.

Semper Fi and "Thank you" for your service.

Reni, i find you very rude. You could be more polite in your opinion. Telling people they do not know what they are talking abou and making fools of thenselves is very nasty. Could you just say in your opinion folks on here may be mistakened and to see what further research turns up? Why are you like this.? Just saying . Judy

I acturaly left and came back. I really have been on here for years but left fir awhile then I had to get put back in again because I list my password. That was my fault. So I a more recent joining date .

I was reading through all the comments here and to be honest I knew little if anything about "Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway. So I checked my relationship to him figuring it would be on my mother's side since she's half Swede (And my tree goes back to Håkan Werme in Sweden) and a quarter Dane and Swiss. Nope it's through my dad's father's side who my father never even knew and I was able to verify only through DNA tests which confirmed his mother actually got it right who she listed as my dad's father (and if you knew her history you'd be surprised as well). So I checked my relationship to many of those posting here all seem to also be related through my dad's side. This doesn't in itself prove my relationship to "Fairhair" nor does it matter much to me if "Fairhair" can be proven to be my 33rd great grandfather as I'm not the one who linked my tree to him. But, it seems almost all of us on this thread share common ancestors and with me it's specifically on my dad's side and not the known Swede, Swiss, and Danish as I'd have expected. This genealogy stuff never ceases to amaze me.

James Miller I see you turned up as James Miller 25th cousin twice removed. Good, but what do you think about the earlier comment by Gerhard, that due to many wars throughout history, false paternities and children born out of wedlock, illegimate, our chance to be related to Harald Fairhair is almost nil?

I mean, if you can find relationship to many of those posting here, and if Gerhards comment had some greater value, you wouldn't have found any at all, do you agree?

Listing some of the posters here that I found a relationship with.

If it is true, that the further away from me they (you) are, the less reason I should have to believe that the paths reflects any reality at all, and by all means, just accept whatever comes.

A M Oleander is your 7th cousin once removed.
Martin Emanuel is your 10th cousin once removed.
Per Olof Johansson is your 10th cousin once removed.
Jørn Middelborg is your 13th cousin.
Saga Sanna Marja is your 14th cousin once removed.
M. Foss N. is your 14th cousin once removed.
David Widerberg Howden is your 14th cousin twice removed.
Remi Trygve Pedersen is your 15th cousin once removed.
Juan Carlos is your 16th cousin.
Crista Hoover is your 17th cousin once removed.
Anna Kristin Petursdottir is your 18th cousin.
Andrew Gilbert is your 18th cousin thrice removed.
John Hughes Curry, Jr. is your 20th cousin twice removed.
Diana Collins is your 20th cousin thrice removed.
Max Eugene Monroe is your 20th cousin four times removed.
Judith (Judy) A. Loubris is your 21st cousin twice removed.
Cynthia Curtis (Hicks) OCOM at Large Council is your 21st cousin four times removed.
Linda Wellman is your 22nd cousin four times removed.
Angelina is your 23rd cousin once removed.
Angelina Henrica Josephina Maria is your 23rd cousin twice removed.
Suzan Martin is your 23rd cousin twice removed.
Terence John Aston Dive is your 24th cousin once removed.
Dr. Jim Cunningham is your 24th cousin four times removed.
Karen Marie Soderberg Mills is your 25th cousin.
Lord Bruce Ross Myers is your 25th cousin.
Richard Albert Hendrix, Jr is your 25th cousin.
Steven Alan Thoreson is your 25th cousin.
Erica Howton is your 25th cousin once removed.
Joel MacDonald (Corbitt) is your 25th cousin once removed.
Sharon Lee Doubell is your 25th cousin once removed.
Alex Moes is your 25th cousin twice removed.

Ulf Martinsson I don't doubt a lot of fooling around on the side went on. My dad's mother had 5 kids by 4 different fathers and as near as I can tell she only married two of those father's. She married at 15 years one month old the 1st time and 3 months pregnant to an RH McCauley. She was separated from that husband when she gave birth to her second daughter and using the last name "Cooper" at the time. My dad had his own birth certificate and it listed who his father and mother were but, it failed to give him a name. In the 1930 census he's listed as "Carl Rhoads Jr." (the guy he never even knew) In the 1940 census he's listed as "James Miller Jr." She took up with James Andrew Miller but, no indication they ever married and she had a daughter by him. She did marry the father of her 4th daughter but, that didn't last either. She married once more but, that husband was killed in a shootout with the police in LA. We on this "Fairhair" no doubt prove there's something to the genealogy that we all share common ancestors, on paper anyway, and the fact that those here all seem to be on my dad's father's side which has roots back to the beginning of the US and not my Swede, Dane, or Swiss side is what surprises me the most after reading more about Fairhair. No doubt some of us have families that had kids who weren't the children of both parents. I don't think there's any of us who no for certain all their ancestors are from a monogamous relationship. DNA helps clear some of that up as it did in my circumstances.

James Miller....even though geni shows our path thru your dad's side...I would lay money on it that we connect somehow on your mom's side too. I have dna matches to people that have the surnames of her tree, or they have those surnames in their trees. All the time I get matches to people from Norway, Sweden, Finland....and I'll probably never be able to figure out "how?".

These wives of Harald turns out to be my ggm's on Geni, so I have several different paths to Harald, in some cases, both longer and shorter, with the same or by different profiles, but Geni displays only the shortest, so many lines goes through various paths, it would strenghten the possibility that at least someone is genuin.

In random DNA estimations for misattributed paternity it usually show 1% - 3%, and I do not think that this rate would have been much higher in earlier times, due to harder punishment, social stigma, inheritance questions etc. so when someone talks about rapes and war, they might actually reflecting their own lack of a paternal line, it's called projection, not uncommon when it comes to self-protection.

Åshild (Alvhild) Ringsdotter is your 28th great grandmother. Åshild (Alvhild) Ringsdotter

Snöfrid Svåsesdotter is your 28th great grandmother.
Snøfrid Svåsesdotter

Gyda Eriksdatter, fra Hordaland is your 30th great grandmother.
Gyda Eriksdatter, fra Hordaland

Svanhild Eysteinsdotter is your 30th great grandmother.
Svanhild Eysteinsdotter

Diana Collins I looked through your tree and no doubt we're related but, it seems our kinship is in the US for the most part. My DNA matches show a number of Sanders who while not as close as the match I found to a James Phillip Rhoads, who was an exact match at 37 markers and was the one who had my dad's father in his family tree, those Sanders fall just after the Rhoads. Now that Rhoads line is all "Y" DNA so it was just pure luck that I found and exact match. I had one of my dad's half sister's daughter do an mt DNA test in hopes I could trace my dad's mother's family down as she was adopted from the Orphans' Asylum for Southern Illinois at Cairo in 1915. Maybe her being adopted contributed to her having so many failed relationships. Who can tell? But, I haven't had much luck finding any roots to her tree yet. I just signed up for the "Family Finder" option at FTDNA for that half cousin so I'm still hoping as she's the last branch of my tree to remain bare.

Ulf Martinsson all those you listed turned out to be direct ggm's for me as well with the exception of Åshild (Alvhild) Ringsdotter who is listed as my 28th great grandfather's (Fairhair) wife's great grandfather's 7th wife. So who knows, I'm probably a direct descendant of "Fairhair" as well. I also show to be a direct descendant of Charlemagne who is supposed to be my 34th GGrandfather on my dad's father's tree. Once again it wasn't me who found him but, someone who linked him into my tree. I know those long dead ancestors are way beyond my genealogy abilities to track down. That's why I'm so amazed by those who do. Now if I can just find a way to track down who my dad's mother's (the one who had 5 kids by 4 fathers) parents. She was adopted in 1915 and she's the only branch of my family tree with no roots.

My Sanders....I believe....is how I seem to match most of the historic lines relating to Norway, Sweden, Finland,.....

My husband, who doesn't know who his real dad is, had his dna done. For Christmas, I paid to have the y-dna37. 2 people match exactly. One in Connecticut, and one in England. They are of different surnames. He also matches EXACTLY with a lot of other males, but they only had the 12 or 25 done. Mt husband is mad at me....he said that he could have instead gotten a light bar for his truck from me.

Oh....and James....Remi is a "star" on the Charlemagne discussion too....

Diana Collins are any of those matches for your husband exact at 37 markers with zero distance? If they are and they have a tree, who knows he may get lucky. Maybe he can convince one of his new found family to give him a light bar for his truck? They may not want to have a thing to do with him though. I've found close relatives in Texas who I know to be related to my dad's birth father who won't even respond to my emails or attempts at Facebook contact. Makes me wonder what other secrets they're keeping?

Yes, they are both an exact match with zero distance. Looks like the one in Connecticut line has been in Connecticut as far back as his tree goes. Early 1700s. The other guy in England does not have a tree.

And once again, one of my comments was pulled off for review. I did not cuss. I merely stated a fact of how Remi said "I do not claim him" on the https://www.geni.com/discussions/100766 . And YES...I gave my opinion on what should happen if Remi meets him some day. What is the matter Remi, does the truth hurt? And on that discussion....you DID get sweared at....not by me....

Diana Collins, I saw your response prior to being "reviewed". I saw no offense in it. I have relatives I'm not proud of as well. Don't we all? Does your husband happen to know his birth father's name? If he does, sometimes there's more to the tree than what that guy from Connecticut has posted. My Rhoads family contact didn't have my dad's father in the tree he had posted. But, upon talking to him he looked through other information he had and was able to find my dad's birth father. Now my dad who never knew who his dad actually was or ever had a real family life would have been thrilled to find he had a half brother and more than Charlemagne or Fairhair being the fan of Westerns that he was it would have been worth bragging about to find he was distantly related to Doc Holliday.

No clue to his real dad, his mother took it to her grave. She would just tell him "He was no good....you don't need to know"

My dad wasn't even aware anyone except James Miller was his dad until a teen and he needed his birth certificate. Even then he doubted it factual due to his mother's lifestyle. Have you contacted the Connecticut match. He may know of a close relative that fits the "no good" description your mother-in-law gave him.

Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway is my 29th Grandfather. I have a clean line to him as Grandfather.

SORRY ULF, but I don't believe we are cousins because "datter 1 Mathiasen / Gyntelberg" connects us. This is an entirely made up relationship.

Eiler Foss my father
→ Erik Agnar Foss his father
→ Sophus Frederik Rudolf Foss his father
→ Anny Cathinka Kornerup his mother
→ Peter Ernst Iver Kornerup her father
→ Christian Kornerup his father
→ Kirsten Jacobsdatter Abel his mother
→ Jacob Abel her father
→ datter 1 Mathiasen / Gyntelberg his mother <--- Made up connection
→ Mathias Eskildsen Gyntelberg her father
→ Eskil Jensen Gyntelberg his father
→ Kirsten Mogensdatter Lille (Baden) his mother
→ Mogens Pedersen Baden her father
→ Peder Lauridsen (Baden) his father
→ Jens Jernskjaeg his brother
→ Iver Jensen Jernskjæg Baden his son
→ Peder Jernskjegg Baden his son
→ Emerentze Pedersdatter Baden his daughter
→ Johan Hansen Melenius her son
→ Else Johansdatter Melenius his daughter
→ Johannes (Hans) Jensen Melin her son
→ Catharina Melin his daughter
→ Elisabeth Walleria her daughter
→ Ingrid Helena Gedda her daughter
→ Johanna Berntsdotter her daughter
→ Lovisa Hagman her daughter
→ Martin Andersson her son
→ Carl Mandus Martinsson his son
→ Ivan Göte Martinsson his son
→ Ulf Martinsson his son

private Anyone with more than 10.000 ancestors here on Geni, are most likely cousins in many different ways, the fact that you see only the shortest path, with Gyntelberg, tells nothing about the other longer "hidden" paths, I could easily make a list for you where we share at least 100 ancestors, but I settle for two, so we don't get to closely related in your mind...

Birger jarl is my 21st great grandfather.
M. Foss N. is Birger jarl's 21st great granddaughter.
Jarl Birger Magnusson (Folkungaätten)

Valdemar den store, Kung av Danmark is my 22nd great grandfather.
M. Foss N. is Valdemar den store, Kung av Danmark's 21st great granddaughter.
Valdemar the Great, King of Denmark

datter 1 Mathiasen / Gyntelberg es su sexto primo 10 veces eliminado.
NN Mathiasdatter Gyntelberg

Sorry Ulf, but you have a rather weak link to royalty...

For example: your links to Jarl Birger Magnusson (Folkungaätten) who is MY 19th Great Grandfather....

YOUR LINKS ARE WEAK HERE:

→ Britta Bengtsdotter Svenske her daughter circa 1541 and before 1616?
Britta Bengtsdotter Svenske?
through=6000000024047215969

→ Brita Svensdotter her daughter estimated birth between 1578 and 1638?
Brita Svensdotter

→ Lars Håkansson Dufva her son estimated birth between 1558 and 1618
Husband of NN Hustru Lars?
https://www.geni.com/people/Lars-Håkansson-Dufva/6000000002748435715

Valdemar the Great, King of Denmark is MY 21st great grandfather.

YOUR LINKS ARE WEAK HERE:

→ Else Jørgensdatter Daa his daughter Circa 1585-1642
https://www.geni.com/people/Else-Jørgensdatter-Daa/6000000007094452...

→ Kerstin Larsdotter Dufva her daughter Circa 1610- circa 1687
Kerstin Dufva

→ Jörgen Knutsson Måneskiöld R-M269 DNA markers? Page not found. Imagine that?

If you would like to believe the fantasy, I encourage you to have fun! Please come with me... Aladdin is my 25th Great Grandfather. Come on my magic carpet ride.

M. Foss N., since Aladdin is your Grand pappy, can you PLEASE ask him to grant me one wish?

That'a all I would need :)

Thank you.

M. Foss N.,Oye en vez de bastardear tanto a nuestros antepasados quizás deberías interiorizarte y buscar debates al respecto, entiendo que los perfiles de Geni siempre se pueden encontrar en otras páginas de Genealogía o relacionadas al tema ejemplo: https://www.worldfamilies.net/forum/index.php?topic=10579.0
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b/default.aspx?iframe=yresults
R1b and Subclades Project for R1b (M343+ and M269+) Y DNA Haplogroup - Y-DNA Classic Chart .
Y miles de portales de Internet y libros virtuales de distintas bibliotecas del mundo solo hay que tener interés en investigar .