Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway - Why does my tree break when it comes to Harald's daughter Ingebjørg?

Back on June 9 I posted a comment about the Geni Terms of Use that would appear to cover conduct on this website. I noted that the post after mine asked what I could add about Harald I.

Again you curators are really missing the point. Show us a document from Geni that states that curators can lock profiles, cut family trees etc. and I will stop commenting about the attitude of curators. All of you ask for cooperation about not merging profiles and causing issues in this world family tree but appear to rebuff any criticism by calling people ignorant and stupid amongest other comments meant to belittle people who are honestly trying to contribute to the website. Shame on you all.

Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway is my 30th great grandfather

Martin Nordstrom

Ulf Martinsson Tienes mucha razón Olof III "the Treasurer", king of Sweden is your 29th great grandfather.

Looks like Olof III "the Treasurer", king of Sweden is my 32nd great grandfather.

"Come on folks. Remi is doing his job. This is a case of 'shooting the messenger'. He aims at ensuring a World Tree based on academic credentials - primary sources and professional historical and genealogical research. This is what the majority of users want" +1

Of course Curators have been charged with the responsibility of locking down correct historical profiles, Martin - Why do you think they have been given those tools?

Now unfollowing this discussion - it's just nasty.

Sharon Doubell "Now unfollowing this discussion - it's just nasty."

Here you go again attacking users, that's nasty. Regarding Remi, he has said that if it was up to him he would "cut out evrything before 1250"., that's a nice attiude for a "serious" curator, so no, I do not defend him regardless what, you're all able to do both good and bad things, so whether he's right or wrong in some cases is often a matter of debate and we should be allowed to plead for our opinions without being ridiculed.

About a "World Tree based on academic credentials", yes, so why let someones personal ignorance of those academic credentials be a hinder for us all?

Martin Emanuel agree.

Private User
Harald Hårfager Halfdansson is my 28th great grandfather.

Private User I did not say that it is worthless, which it is definetely not. But for chasing after distant origins it is not usable at all. Its intended usage is for finding and confirming much closer relatives.

Theres absolutely no way to proove such a distant connection with autosomal-DNA, the only way to use DNA to proove anything this distant is through Y-DNA and mtDNA.
You do inherit DNA from all your 32 third-greatgrandparents, on average you share 3,2% from each of them, but in reality you could share under 1% from some and 6% from others. Just one more generation and theres actually 4 ancestors that you dont share any DNA with and if you go back 18 generations to about 1450, you would have 131.072 15th-greatgrandparents and only 1090 of them would have DNA that you have inherited. On average you would share about 0,09% with each of them.

To even try to proove that the DNA shared is through any of these 1090 ancestors in 1450 is not possible, it is hard enough to proove which of your 3rd-greatgrandparents your shared DNA is from. You would share DNA with all your 2nd cousins but not with all 3rd cousins and its not very probable to share anything with so distant relatives as mentioned.

In addition you would need a full ancestry on both matches at all lines going back to the perod that you try to proove, not many has full ancestry going back beyond maby 8 generations or so and because of that many jump to the conclusion that a distant connection must be the right one, while in reality the connection is through one of the much closer unknown ancestors.

For those who can read swedish this is a good article on the subject: https://petersjolund.se/kan-en-dna-match-bevisa-ett-slaktskap-pa-14...

If it was the ethnicity estimations you where refering to, theres no way to use that to proove that you have scandinavian ancestors. Many norwegians does also have british in theyr results, withouth having any british ancestry. It is just a estimation on what reference populations you have some similar DNA with. The genetic origin of many of these referance groups are overlapping and shares much of the same genetic ancestors who inhabited the areas after the ice-age. It is not possible to really distinguish 100% between any of these groups, but they are considered good to distinguish groups of endogamous groups from the rest and also good at distinguising on a continental level, but not that good on detailed geographical areas.

The sagas are surely not fictional or fairy-tales, but many of them where comissioned by someone with a political agenda to proove a connection or inheritance and it is not that easy to distinguish between what is really historically accurate or not in the sagas. I will let the historians and medieval genealogists try to solve that as I am not that experienced on that yet..

What is a curator: https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229706727-What-are-Curators-
What permissions do they have: https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229706807-What-permissions-...

https://help.geni.com/hc/en-us/articles/229706807-What-permissions-...
¿Qué permisos tienen los curadores en mi árbol?
Avatar Equipo geni
26 de febrero de 2013 20:23
Seguir
Los curadores tienen los siguientes permisos en su árbol:
Ver y editar permisos de edición para cualquier perfil, incluidos los perfiles privados, para que puedan asistirlo en su solicitud
Aprobar las fusiones para facilitar el crecimiento y mantenimiento del Árbol Familiar Mundial. Aprende más sobre el Árbol Familiar Mundial.
Convertir perfiles de vida históricos a fallecidos
Convertir los perfiles famosos e históricos fallecidos a público
Designe los perfiles maestros y, opcionalmente, bloquee los campos para que no se editen y agregue notas de Curator al perfil
Los curadores obtuvieron estos permisos debido a la gran trayectoria que tuvieron con sus permisos previos y el impacto significativo que han tenido en la calidad de los datos en Geni. Utilizarán estos permisos para ayudar a los usuarios cuando necesite ayuda práctica para corregir errores, limpiar su árbol y para asistirlo mejor con su investigación genealógica.
No veo que diga que pueden cortar las lineas,quizas al traducir del ingles al español yo lo vea diferente

FTDNA specifically states....

Ancient European Origins

The European Continent has been witness to many episodes of human migration, some of which have spanned over thousands of years. The most up-to-date research into these ancient migrations on the European Continent suggests that there were three major groups of people that have had a lasting effect on present day peoples of European descent: Hunter-Gatherers, Early Farmers, and Metal Age Invaders. The graphics below display the percentages of autosomal DNA that you still carry from these ancient European groups. You can click on these graphics to display more information.

Diana: That is something entirely different, our mixture of autosomal DNA is of course inherited through the ages and are inherited from three populations: Metal Age Invader (Bronze Age), Farmer (Neolithic Era), Hunter-Gatherers (Mesolithic and Neolithic Eras) and the results you get in the "Ancient origins" is refering to this. None of this can help you to pinpoint anything to a specific geographical area i Europe or a specific ancestor.

I know it doesn't "prove" that I am blood to Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway.

These ancient origins are listed with dna from remains from areas throughout all of Europe and extended. For example, this one is quite specific to the area found...

Motala

Motala, Sweden (~8,000 years ago)

hunter found

Remains of seven individuals were discovered in a European Mesolithic Hunter-Gatherer burial site east of lake Vättern near modern day Motala, Sweden. All of the individuals found belonged to the mitochondrial DNA haplogroups U2 and U5, which was quite common for Hunter-Gatherers of this time period and location. These mitochondrial DNA haplogroups can still be found in modern day populations, although in much lower frequencies. Of these seven individuals, five of them were males belonging to the Y-chromosome haplogroup I, thus providing evidence that even in Mesolithic times this Y-chromosome haplogroup was common in Northern European populations.

Just one of my matchings....

FYI

I have also found that I was removed as a Manager.

See <private> Sprague (Martin) was removed as a manager of Kari ''Wind'' Fornjotsson, King of Kvenland.
Jul 11, 2018 at 10:16 AM Harald Tveit Alvestrand (Tveit)
I contributed one item to this profile. No one asked me if I wanted to be removed as a manager. I guess this is just another thing curators can do. I am not impressed.

Martin Nordstrom

Martin, it's brutal around here. You'll survive though. =) Hang in there.

Diana and Martin:

Olof III "the Treasurer", king of Sweden is my 25th great grandfather.

Have a great day!

Who's gonna host the first family reunion? lol

Ulf I hear what you are saying. I have felt many times to quit using geni, because of reasons what you write. If the certain attitudes go on, there wont be active payers of geni :/ I have already left fb groups.of my country. It is hopeless dictature sadly.

Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler Todos sabemos que es difícil saber exactamente si somos o no descendientes de reyes príncipes reinas o princesas , pero con tu criterio deberíamos dudar a hasta de nuestros propios padres y no me parece justo que quienes han pasado años días y horas y a veces sin dormir investigando ,leyendo ect para hacer este gran árbol genealógico hoy digas esto no sirve ay que cortar .
Quiero decirte que soy hijo de madre soltera y me duele tu comentario mi padre me reconoció y se que soy su hijo además te diré mis abuelos emigraron de Europa a fines del siglo 19 vinieron aquí al fin del mundo de Holanda Dinamarca vasco España tengo bisabuelos de Alemania Portugal ect

Sorry Juan Carlos, I was not able to translate.

Soja-bohnenöl strafe???? Soya bean punishmentp? Dp you want to punish me?

My brother in law living in Spain and Brasil can translate it.

Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler https://translate.google.com.ar/ useful for these cases We all know that it is difficult to know exactly whether or not we are descendants of kings prince queens or princesses, but with your criterion we should doubt even our own parents and it does not seem fair that those who have spent years and hours and sometimes without sleep investigating, reading ect to make this great family tree today say this does not work and what to cut.
I want to tell you that I am the son of a single mother and your comment hurts. My father recognized me and I know that I am his son. I will tell you my grandparents emigrated from Europe at the end of the 19th century. They came here to the end of the world in Holland. Denmark Basque Spain I have great-grandparents Germany Portugal ect
“Ser o no ser, ésa es la cuestión” o “To be, or not to be, that is the question”

Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler https://translate.google.com.ar/ useful for these cases We all know that it is difficult to know exactly whether or not we are descendants of kings prince queens or princesses, but with your criterion we should doubt even our own parents and it does not seem fair that those who have spent years and hours and sometimes without sleep investigating, reading ect to make this great family tree today say this does not work and what to cut.
I want to tell you that I am the son of a single mother and your comment hurts. My father recognized me and I know that I am his son. I will tell you my grandparents emigrated from Europe at the end of the 19th century. They came here to the end of the world in Holland. Denmark Basque Spain I have great-grandparents Germany Portugal ect
“Ser o no ser, ésa es la cuestión” o “To be, or not to be, that is the question”

(No Name) and David Widerberg Howden thank you for taking the time to make your posts, perhaps someone reading this thread will learn something even if those participating in the debate remain locked into their opinions.

Many have the impression that theres a huuuge chance for having a wrong father, some early DNA-reserch that was based on actual paternity cases showed a percentage near 30%. While the flow of commercial testing has shown that the real chance for having a wrong father is lower than 2% But in cases where there is a serious doubt it is probably much higher. In most cases it is what you have been told that was wrong or the interpretation of sources that was wrong and not the actual written primary source.

I know for a fact, due to the fighting spirit of who I am, being a Marine of Highlander blood and Viking blood...I'm proud of my origin. I don't doubt for a moment where my fighting spirit comes from. To this very day, even in my elder years, no man can stand up to me without shaking in his boots. The 6' 6" 300 lbs of me was proud to see where all of this came from.

☺️

John Curry, do you prefer to know that maybe you are related to Harald but cannot prove it or do you prefer to believe you are related to Harald despite the lack of evidence?

I would have thought as a man of the world you'd have recognized that a "fighting spirit" is not restricted to Scandinavians but is actually a fairly typical human trait. Certainly a fighting spirit doesn't seem like practical evidence of a connection to a specific man 1000 years ago, perhaps you are descendant from one of Harald's thralls or warriors?

I think that I should repeat part of what I wrote.

The Plantagenet and the Tudor line is most likely broken by a false-parenthood. DNA tests of the bones of Edward III indicate this and there is no Y-DNA male line (no living male) after Edward III. "Fake news"?

I am talking about chances and probabilities, not about the generations until maybe 1600 or 1500.
However during 30 or more generations the chance is extremely large that genetic lines are broken - Plantagenets or Tudors are no exceptions.

6 feet 6inches - that is a real proof - yes John Curry stems from Harald.

Juan Carlos, thanks for the translation.

I was not talking about your parents or grandparents . I was talking about the chance of having genealogical or genetic proof of grand...grandparents 1000 and more years ago.

Gerhard Ludwig Fiedler
accepted the apologies
6 feet and 2 inches and 102 kilos and 72 years

Is this the profile for Jan I, Hertog van Brabant ....

John I, duke of Brabant and Limburg

Wiki ??? .... or a different one...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_I,_Duke_of_Brabant