Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway - Why does my tree break when it comes to Harald's daughter Ingebjørg?

nasy....does that mean negatively.....somethin'...???

Remi you are referring to archeology Bjørn Myhre, so far so good.
But you decline NBL Norsk Biografisk Leksikon and the Sources they refer to:
Kilder og litteratur

•HKr.
• Fagrskinna, overs. av J. Schreiner, 2. utg. 1972
•H. Koht: biografi i NBL1, bd. 5, 1931
•A. Holmsen: Norges historie fra de eldste tider inntil 1660, 1939 (og senere utg.)
•H. Koht: Harald Hårfagre og rikssamlinga, 1955
•A. Holmsen m.fl. (red.): Norske historikere i utvalg, bd. 1, 1967, bd. 6, 1983
•Ólafia Einarsdóttir: “Dateringen af Harald hårfagers død”, i HT, bd. 47, 1968, s. 15–34
•A. Holmsen: Nye studier i gammel historie, 1976
•P. Sveaas Andersen: Samlingen av Norge og kristningen av landet 800–1130, 1977
•C. Krag: “Vestfold som utgangspunkt for den norske rikssamlingen”, i Collegium Medievale 3, 1990, s. 170–195
•d.s.: Vikingtid og rikssamling 800–1130, bd. 2 i ANH, 1995
In other sequences the curators refer to contemporary Sources, but you decline them in this case.
ex. Merowingians and the primary Source of Gregory who you can compere to Snorre, they both wrote the story in verse. As I have said earlier in discussions, there are many other Sources at the same time. It looks like some of you choose the story you like and that is the truth. That is the same scenario you say others are doing.

Tor Bjarne, I have in fact read most of these, and I have read what the professional historians being active the last 30 years think about most of these sources. You should do to.

You know that SNL (Store Norske Leksikon) is more updated than NBL (Norsk Bibliografisk Leksikon), don't you? Here are a couple of links from SNL:

https://snl.no/Harald_H%C3%A5rfagre
https://www.norgeshistorie.no/hvordan-blir-historie-til/kildekritik...
https://www.norgeshistorie.no/vikingtid/artikler/0815-harald-harfag...

You should also read all the books and article referenced in Bjørn Myhre's article. I have read most of them.

You mention contemporary sources when talking about Harald Fairhair, can you please show them to me either by an internet link or by a reference to an article in a magazine or a book. You also say that I decline these contemporary sources about Harald Fairhair. Which contemporary sources about Harald is it that I have declined. I'm just asking since I don't know of any contemporary sources mentioning him!

Tor Bjarne, I have not made any choises about which story to like, I just state what the majority of todays professionals in viking history, archeology, writings and so on are thinking. If you disagree with their conclusions, then you have to take it to their arena and make your case there.

So the "NASY" or "NASTY" comments may have been removed.

That's good. Let's just all move on and make it a nice day.

Not sure if this article has been shared: https://www.genealogi.no/publikasjoner/kings-vikings/ and for those who can read norwegian: https://www.genealogi.no/kongar_i_aettetavlene/ The authors Jo Rune Ugulen and Lars Løberg are experts in medieval norwegian genealogy.

It is about not letting you complete the link cause they don't want you to be the link, it is a conspiracy. Last thing we need to know is that we are links to Frey Frigg Frea...lol and to King David I am

David Widerberg Howden Thank you for your link, that was an interesting read. Much appreciated.

Come on folks. Remi is doing his job. This is a case of 'shooting the messenger'. He aims at ensuring a World Tree based on academic credentials - primary sources and professional historical and genealogical research. This is what the majority of users want.

One of my dna match surnames....

Ahren (Källstad, Sweden) / Björkman (Stockholm, Paris, Gävle) / Corvin (Öland, Sweden) / Eriksson / Lidbeck (Stockholm) / Medelius (Öland, Stockholm, kalmar Sweden) / Munck af Rosensköld (Stockholm, Sweden) / Sjöberg (Linköping) / Sandström (Stockholm, Östersund, Alingsås, Sweden) / Sandströmer (Östersund, Linköping, Stockholm, Sweden) / Sandström (Stockholm, Östersund, Linköping, Sweden)

11 more with Eriksson...

Diana, what point are you trying to make about Harald by posting these surnames?

"Come on folks. Remi is doing his job. This is a case of 'shooting the messenger'. He aims at ensuring a World Tree based on academic credentials - primary sources and professional historical and genealogical research. This is what the majority of users want" +1

I'll tell you guys what I told my children when they were growing up. When people make sarcastic remarks in a negative way, not joking, but mean, remember, negative people are usually unhappy or may be upset about something, not feeling well and we have no way of knowing what is going on in their life.

It's beyond me what would provoke someone to actually tell someone face to face or post to post the rude or hateful things I've seen lately! It's best to ignore the rudeness, stay gracious and at least in the end you do the right thing and the nasty person didn't rain on your Parade. None of this ever rains on my happy parade! This is how you win and the grumpy person is the loser. Kill them with kindness.

This isn't the only Discussion Room! It's easy to start a new one just for chatting. Just saying. Haha

Is this a work or chat room? I can't figure this one out! Haha

David Widerberg Howden Thank you for your links, interesting articles.

Can someone please explain the following to me:

I descend from Jan I, Duke of Brabant, all ancestors after him are from the Duchy of Brabant, I can follow some families up to 1200 and before.
Among my ancestors after 1100 there is not a single Scandinavian, the first ancestor I encounter with partly Scandinavian blood is Queen Anna of France, granddaughter of Olof III of Sweden.
Among the ancestors of Jan I of Brabant, however, are many Scandinavians ,, Olaf II of Norway, various lines to the Dukes of Normandie (Rollo Ragnvaldsson, Willem I, Gerloc (Adela), William the Conqueror, the lines to Burgundy, Flanders etc.), Olof III "the Treasurer", king of Sweden, Grand princes of Kiev, Kings of Upsala, Vestfold, Jarls etc etc.

If there is no Scandinavian in my pedigree after 1100 how can you explain that according to my DNA I am 20.4% Scandinavian ???
So a fifth part of my DNA comes from my Scandinavian ancestors who lived before 1100. A fifth part, quite a lot, must be ancestors who lived hundreds of years before that. Perhaps more truth in the sagas than we think?

By the way, the DNA neatly follows the pedigree data:

Europe 99.2%:
North and West European 68.7% (the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany (Saxony, Holy Roman Empire etc) and France (Franks, Holy Roman Empire)
Scandinavian 20.4% (Norway, Sweden, Denmark)
English 2.3% (old English Kings) (I only miss the Scottish DNA, Princess Mary of Scotland Dunkeld, daughter of Malcolm III)
Eastern Europe 7.8% (Kiev, Poland, Bulgaria etc)

Middle East 0.8% (Byzantine Empire) (great-grandmother of Jan I was Irini "Maria" Angelina, Princess of Byzantium, Dame de Constantinople)

Hei Angelina, yes the sagas are no made up stories, it is not about that, just that it is impossible to know for sure more details about the persons mentioned in sagas or in other written history or stories for long time ago, that goes as well to books of bible, that has been changing for so many times that it is really hard to know what is left to be true or accurate in genealogy point of view. It seems unfair sometimes that some ancestries are not treated the same, and there are not same kind of questioning of some other profiles that are from same era. Anyway this is just geni, and for sure you had ancestors here in North, most of them just does not show in any books, and some surely are :)

Angelina I don’t have known Scandinavian Ancestry but it shows up some in my DNA ethnicity estimates. That may be from my known Scots & English. Tacking DNA estimates into a time-stream is difficult, I hear. I have a middle eastern estimate on my Jewish side - from when ? Probably not the same as yours. :)

I have a ton of dna matches from the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway. I show a small percentage of Jew. I also show from tests run thru gedcom as "Red Sea". Not sure what pinpoint that would be. I show Scandinavian. I show Armenian. Lots of other things too.

Also Baloch.

The first europeans ancestors came from Africa 80.000 years ago into Europa, 20.000 years agor they went further nort until 10.000 years ago they were able to move up in Scandinavia, estimated population at that time and there, 3000 people. They were all hunters and gatheres, the second immigration wave came later, ca. 6000 years ago consisting of farmers from Anatolia, later on, a third big wave reached begiining from 5300 years ago from the Yamnaya culture, mostly shepherds, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya_culture, and from them consist mostly over + 80% of our DNA today, considering that we all originated some 30 milions years ago from a common ancestor, we can only track what we can track and the results from test are a bit speculative and don't tell us much more than a good guesswork would do when it comes to details about our origin.

https://www.geni.com/projects/Yamnaya-Ancient-Origins/47080

I can't figure out how to add profiles to my projects....my profile should be one of them.

and what does you have a ton of Scandinavian DNA matches have to do with the subject of Harald

Autosomal-DNA is only relevant when discussing recent generations, not this distant.. And ethnic estimates are so unreliable that it cant be used for much either. This far back it is only Y-DNA and mtDNA that is reliable and so far there hasnt been much analyzes done of old kings. So focus on the primary sources on this issue..

the myheritage tests are designed to help you find your close relatives out to about 5th cousins. it is not intended to tell you if you are descended from Harald

@Jason Scott Wills. According to GeniCom, Harald is my 32nd great grandfather. So I wondered where that large part of Scandinavian DNA comes from and whether all my Scandinavian ancestors are now fictional. According to GeniCom, my descent on this line runs through Ordulf van Saksen, husband of Ulvhild Olavsdotter.
Is my 29th great grantfather Olof Eriksson, Olof III "the Treasurer", king of Sweden now also fictional? He is the grandfather, maternal side, of Ulvhild Olavsdotter, he is also the grandfather of my other ancestor Anna or Kiev, Queen Consort of the Franks, wife of Henry I of France.

@David Widerberg Howden So. if I understand you correctly, MyHeritage sells expensive tests that have no added value for me. ... I check the details of my distant ancestors on the Project Medlands site. I check the data of my ancestors the Knight Pijlijser, sub-branch of the Dukes of Brabant in the Dutch National Archive. The Royal libraries of the Netherlands and Belgium are also good sources, as well as the Armorial Gelre and the Armorial Beyeren.

Olof III "the Treasurer", king of Sweden (27th great grandfather)

Hello Diana :) And greetings. There are some nice fb-page for searching and comparing ancestors. It is nicer to tag ancestors, profiles there, so the main discussion does not go too far from its course adding profiles that does not belong to this discussion. Kind regards - Saga

Olof III "the Treasurer", king of Sweden

Olof is one of many that has got his line cut because of ignorance.

No they are not all fictional, but curators have cut many lines because they thinks that "saga" means "fairy tale",instead of the more suitable meaning,historical tales. I´ve tried to make them understand that the word "saga" at that point in time in this context meant a factual written account of important or historical events in the order of their occurrence and that it was made both seriously and with a high meticulousness as only skilled skald's did this work. They visited the kings, (the highest leaders), personally and gathered information first hand, often they stayed for longer periods when needed, went back and so to speak, sent back the information in order to preserve it.

The collected material grew after the years in an ongoing process, so when they put down their notes, it was both the oldest source and the newest at the same time.

Then came other methods in use, and please, do not block me again or start a new personal attack on me beacuse I'm writing this, people have the right to know that some sagas are actual very reliable and should be used as contemporary sources even if some stuff that have survived into modern times are made by later copies from original vanished parchment.

Examle of saga that is not fictional.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landn%C3%A1mab%C3%B3k

I can verify that a Saga is not a Fairy Tale,