Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway - Why does my tree break when it comes to Harald's daughter Ingebjørg?

Foolish? Mike, I fully acknowledge there are hidden paths. Right now I'm researching Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the USA as there have been some changes and Geni.com isn't recognizing some hidden paths. What leads you to label me in this way?

Help me understand in a private message as I don't believe I've I insulted anyone:
* I've been defending accusations of being arrogant, troll (and now you are unfairly labeling me as "Foolish").
* I've been told that everyone is "mathematically" related "Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway and using Geni.com, but I challenged that premise. We're all connected and share the human DNA, but humans and pigs share portions of DNA as well as humans and gorillas.
* I've acknowledged that "Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway' is my Great Grandparent, but I have NEVER claimed him as my own.
* I've highlighted that :Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway has been linked in the pedigree of President Donald J. Trump by the Icelandic genealogist: Oddur F. Helgason. https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/culture_and_living/2017/01/24/do...
* A gentlemen who referred to POTUS 45 as " trucking fump" became upset simply because I like our president.
* I helped explain the pushpin capabilities of Geni.com.

I find geni.com very useful and entertaining, yet also a little militant and unforgiving. Please understand that I ask many poignant questions because I want to help build an accurate world tree and not to have fantasies. If I'm not related to Trump, that's okay. I just want to know the truth.

Have fun storming the castle,
M. Foss N.

private what I'm taking exception to is this:

"According to Geni.com There is "No path found" from Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway to Eva-Liisa Kukkonen." ... it appears that you are not related to him in any way. I'm sorry."

You can defend your words by standing on the meaning of "appears" but the bottom line is, you basically told another user that she's not related to Harald because a path search from Harald to her came up empty-handed. And what I'm saying is, if you understood how path searches work, and how many descendants Harald has, you wouldn't risk offending someone based on that outcome. It's entirely possible she's a descendant, but there are too many intervening descendants for the path search to find it.

As for "militant" I think it's important that these shared historical branches adhere to the Genealogical Proof Standard, or as close as we can get with scarce primary sources. Is that too high a bar for you?

Mike,

APPEARS: Yes, I said it "appears" and this was intentional so as not to say that Ms Kukkoken is not a relations. At the moment it "appears" that I'm NOT related to Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the USA (though I was until June 13, 2019 when a young lad from the UK changed the data). I believe I came to the discussion on Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway because of this Icelandic genealogist appears to connect Donald J. Trump to Harald I. Your curators "appear" to have disconnected a link, which now "appears" to discredit the work of the acclaimed genealogist.

GENEALOGICAL PROOF STANDARD. Yes, I understand the GPS concept: do reasonably exhaustive research, complete and accurate citation of sources, correlate and analyze evidence, resolve contradictory evidence, and have a conclusion that is soundly reasoned and written coherently. Disproving is easy, proving is hard. Someone has disproved Trump's pedigree and now I'm trying to prove it.

MILITANT: Mind you, I like the high standards, it just seems that some users and curators have selective reasoning with regards to GPS. Also, some do not appear flexible for example, there are a lot of question marks in this name when it could be N.N. or better to remove the profile as I don't believe it requires a placeholder. The curators have spoken and I'm stuck with this for my 29th grandmother:

"?? ??, (Ingebjørg's mother) - ?? ??
https://www.geni.com/people/Ingebjørg-s-mother/6000000010442614110

I believe I copied Geni's guidelines as follows: "Naming Placeholders For unknown names that require a placeholder, please use NN (a Latin abbreviation) or "???" and not language dependent words."

Anyway, thanks for the chat, Mike!

M.Foss. Again with all the kindness, You don't seem to understand the basics of genealogy or research of genetics, and that is totally ok, but acting like you do with high horse attitude, putting other people down, and stating that you don't have anything to learn, that gives a bit foolish appearance.

You have stated to some kind person who tried to explain how we all connect:" I don't have any Neanderthal in me. We're not all related. More accurately, we are "closely related." Neanderthals went extinct about 40,000 years ago, while Homo sapiens did not. Humans and pigs do share portions of DNA!.."

I tried to explaing you some facts if you claim Northern ancestry. Study of Svante Pääbo and his team at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany showed that all non-African people have approximately 1 to 4 percent Neanderthal DNA. And two more studies shows that collectively, the Neanderthal DNA percentage in modern humans is even more then that. Those genes have an influence on a range of areas: hair, skin, smell and disease.

We have plenty of evidence of interbreeding between hominin species like modern humans, Neanderthals and Denisovans, there are others that we apparently haven't discovered yet, like the "ghost species" that turned up during studies into human saliva proteins. So that does not have anything to do with that "human share DNA with pigs also."

Some of your comments tells about ignorance and your style stating your opinions attacking people has been rude. and yes, insulting. There are several examples where you are stating "you" have clean line, but others should check theirs, because you deside they have "weak links" just because you make mistake identifying WIKIpedia to Adelsvapen or to serious documents. assuming Wikipedia is "a source" when it is just web service where sources can be added .

You do understand that there are thousands of us who share the same ancestors, have the same connections. When someone disagrees, or curators has corrected you several times now - you start a new thread with others, hoping to see they desagree? You have underestimated people's and curators professional skills now several times. You have stated that there are no "studies" to be genealogist. You are actually wrong with that.

We all try to work here together for the big connecting world tree. And also contribute some work to it. It is normal to disagree sometimes, but respect one another. The basic work, checking sources of own tree, is good place to start. And for comparing ancestors - there are Geni fb pages, better use those, if that is the main thing that interests, so Geni won´'t be full of conversations that goes far from original subject and out of context.

I had few geni pages open. I started writing when seeing what cousin Kukkonen's received as answer. I had not refreshed the page so now I see there are more messages.

Regarding ?? ??, (Ingebjørg's mother) -- I find the syntax here a little clumsy but it's not a violation of the naming conventions, which state that "NN" -OR- "??" are acceptable.

The point of "(Ingebjørg's mother)" is that there's evidence for her existence as someone OTHER than Harald's named wives. Yes they could have left an empty space there, but as a practical matter curators often put these placeholders to prevent well-meaning but misinformed users from filling in bad data.

I would pay to NOT be related to Donald Trump. Thank you to whomever made that change.

According to the viking historians of today, there are no provable ancestral lines back to Harald Fairhair, and that is the point us curators have been trying to make for some time.

The saga written by Snorre Sturlasson is not trustworthy within this period of time, since it was several hundred years between him and the period he was writing about.

Snorre also wanted to show a connection between Harald Fairhair and Ragnar Lodbrok, which is why he invented the second mother of Harald in Agder. That part is not true.

Historians have since the early 1990's and up till today analyzed what the contemporary sources say about Harald, his battles and is descendancy, and more or less come to a conclusion of what is trustworthy information and not. The conclusion is that what Snorre wrote isn't trustworthy because they think he had an agenda showing Haralds' ancestry back to Ragnar Lodbrok, and showing the important kings of Norway at a later time, like Olav Tryggvason and Olav Haraldson, to be a descendant of Harald Fairhair, which probably are fictional stories bacause there are no evidence other than what Snorre wrote or the sources he used that had he same fictional stories.

Just wanted to say that I'm internalizing all that you're saying people (especially Saga with the very long message directed at me).

#1: I sincerely mean no harm or offense to anyone.
#2: I can not help how Geni.com has captured my ancestry.
#3: I like Trump. I'm sorry if you want to hate me for that (pretty shallow).

Peace out!

omg. T supporter. Explains it all. Bye to this thread.

M. Foss, just answering to you concerning about all the subjects now in the same message, because it as been a bit frustrating to answer all of them repeating things in different threads. In my opinion it is better use of time to check and confirm more recent trees, there are so much work to be done and we need doers there.

To ancient lines it is rare to find new sources and when that happens, we can all surely read about it in history/genealogy/science news. Our noble ancestors are in good hands and lots of researchers there from all over the world and Geni also has experts. Also DNA testing can give some answers in the future, but there are so much info lost between. And sadly the information lost is usually our hard working farmer ancestors. . I have a huge respect for those who survived hundreds and thousands of years of winters and made hard work that their children survived. I am trying to find names for at least part of them and places where they lived from all the possible land registers.

Let's keep politics and religion out, there are always risks of re-writing history, lets not take part in that. We all are connected anyway, somewhere, somehow to all "good and bad" people - peace :)

Are you done berating me, Saga (17th cousin twice removed with a clean line)? LOL.
Perhaps you can spend your time on the genealogy of Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway.

Hello dear people, I just noticed this very interesting conversation. Before I noticed this discussion I never ever hear about this famous King. For fun I just checked if I might be related to any of you in this discussion. Well, I am :) and in the end, this King also seems to be my ancestor. Hi cousins ! Funny thing is, I did have my DNA tested with DNA Tribes in the USA and I do still have quite a lot of Norwegian blood, which was a very big surprise to us, but I am quite sure this is not some DNA in me, added there by this particular King, but ..... well, who knows ?! ;)Greetings to all of you from the Netherlands.

:) forgot something: Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway is your 30th great grandfather.

Greetings back to you Recia <3 And thanks for the kind post :). It is always fascinating to find links where we possibly connect, surely there are more several paths; many can be found from geni, but most of them has been lost in the dusts of history - never the less - we salute them all. Have a nice weekend :) There has been new archaeological findings here in Finland recently, the whole archaeology genre was under swedish rule long time and the findings were not digged up that much, so new times are blooming.

Recia Ilona Albertine Bruggeman.. I was surprised to find Harald I "Fairhair", king of Norway is my 34th Great Grandfather... Will have loads of cousins no doubt!

Private User

What a lovely post, i can feel your Calmness in the way you express yourself,in writing, and to add you are an 18th cousin once removed, how lovely :)

Exactly what I thought in my mind Angelina! Something really sweet <3 Have a goodday cousins :)

Same to you Private User,:)

:) in the end we do all descend from only three brothers, Shem, Ham and Japheth (it would be great if Geni could show these lines, but that would be a miracle, I think). So, in the end we're all related anyway :) If you should see my DNA outcome ... it is one big surprise ! I have DNA from almost every country, all over the world. containing bits and pieces from everywhere. So, what am I ? No idea, .... just a world citizen I guess :) .... that really opened my eyes, we're all connected. I was already thinking this would be the case, doing genealogy for already 23 years in the official old paper archives down here in the Netherlands. Here it also already looked as if I was related to almost everybody ;) Thanks God I am not related to Hitler ! But .... besides that we're just one big family ! Have a great weekend you all !

And sorry Saga, I don't know if "we" are related to Neantherthalers. no idea, my genealogy does not go that far. But my guess is, they were nice creatures anyway ;) I have great respect for them, how they did survive without mobile phones and Geni ;)

Recia Ilona Albertine Bruggeman..... I show as having both Neanderthal and Denisovan dna. Also on another family line there is for me an extended family line to Hitler..and also to Trump...eeeek hahaha not blood relation just extended tree members.

Interesting Geni can show the Mythical lineages and Biblical lineages which are so fascinating. It's shown a lineage of mine back to Adam and Eve...

I am just loving learning History, Geography which I never took in Secondary School, andalso more about Genealogy. It is truly wonderful. It helps also keeping the brain functioning and sanity.. lol..

We are all woven together somehow... :-) xx

Private User
The Neantherthals survived for over 400.000 years due to much empathy and love for eachother, they nursed the old and sick, and they buried their dead, they were also very creative and invented new music, art and manufactured toys for their children, they must have lived in a paradise until, the Homo Sapiens (the wise men, Sic) arrived... unfortunately, we have only inherited a few % from them, Good save us all.

All the europeans share DNA from Neanderthals, Their skulls were treated very poorly before and the new reconstructions show very different faces. Most of us have also a spiced up Denisovan from Asia and Siberia. It is so interesting to follow science and how they have found out about missing species, that has left mark to our DNA.

https://gizmodo.com/ai-finds-traces-of-a-lost-species-in-human-dna-...

The info in this article is a bit old and there are new studies after this but the person "Wilma," is so cute, a DNA-based reconstruction, was red-headed, freckled, and fair - I really identify :)

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/10/121012-neanderthal...

I just watched a pretty informative youtube video that confirmed my suspicions that royal ancestry is really absolutely nothing to get excited about. Here it is... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15Uce4fG4R0&amp;feature=youtu.be

There were long conversation about Charlemagne. I dont know if you saw it. But yes, human history is exactly like that video, "bottle neck effect" but surely history is always interesting, and how people connect. And which ancestor battled against which one. Geni big world tree used to be for seeing how everybody connects. It is only that records off nobles are to be found more easily the rest are giving more work to do. In best scenario Geni can be connecting people :) and those who do not care, probably do not choose genealogy as a hobby.

We are all connected, yada yada yada. For the most part, nobles married only nobles. The wild card is of course "Mistresses." Then again mistresses were of a certain societal standing. In one "mistress" link in my family tree the mistress is the daughter of the Royal Physician. Some were nobilitated or given titles.

Sophie Amalie was born on 28 March 1654 as the daughter of Poul Moth (1601–1670), doctor of the royal court, and Ida Dorothea Bureneus (1624–1684) was the officially acknowledged royal mistress of King Christian V of Denmark. Together they had five acknowledged illegitimate children, all of whom bore the surname Gyldenløve. In 1677 she was elevated to be the first Countess of Samsø. The still-existing Danish noble family of Danneskiold-Samsøe is descended from her.

Ooooh, my guess is their children were also very cute :) and they were great moms and dads. I do not know much about Neantherthals, I only do know that they lived here in the Netherlands and there are some tools found overhere in the ground. So they were clever, they knew a lot already and perhaps more than us nowadays, about nature and natural medicines and such, I guess. But that is a whole different discussion. Bye everybody ! Enjoy the weekend.

Recia, Many have tried to link "trolls" described in Scandinavian lore as the Neanderthals!
http://www.electrummagazine.com/2017/04/neanderthals-scandinavian-t...

Hi dear people,
I have noticed and followed the debate “Fairhair, king of Norway” (Born circa. 850 – died 932), and found it amazing that so many people in the world are interested in a Nordic king.

Some believe everyone is family related, maybe we are ..... but remember! everyone is not descendants of a born about 1000 years ago in straight blue line.

Everything cannot be calculated mathematically and with probability count on values

Homo sapiens, the first modern humans, evolved from their early hominid predecessors between 200,000 and 300,000 years ago. They developed a capacity for language about 50,000 years ago.

The first modern humans began moving outside of Africa starting about 70,000-100,000 years ago.

The span of recorded history is roughly 5,000 years, beginning with Sumerian Cuneiform script; the oldest discovered form of coherent writing from the protoliterate period around the 30th century BC.

Best regards and good weekend to all from Denmark,
Hanne Abel.
(King of Norge Harald I "Fairhair" is my 31st great grandfather).

PS. I am cousin of Niels Henrik Abel, Aug. 5, 1802- April 6, 1829, Norwegian mathematician, one of the most important mathematicians of the 1800s and one of the pioneers in the development of modern mathematics.