Pierre de Villiers - Primary sources for this father?

cf Previous post about this in 2017: Sharon Lee Doubell C
8/3/2017 at 12:48 PM
The Overview on this profile suggests that Pierre de Villiers's father is "Louis de Villiers, Ecuyer, Lord of Compaire and of Chantemerle, was President in the election of Niort, echevin, Mayor and Capitaine in 1579" not Guy de Villiers?

Are there other Sources, or am I misunderstanding something here?

Present info has Pierre de Villiers
Birth 08 July 1631 Saint-Martin-du-Lac, Saône-et-Loire, Burgundy, France
Death: 22 May 1667 (35) Bar Sur Seine, Aube, Grand Est, France

This cannot be correct because the Overview story has him as an old man advising his grown sons to flee the Catholic soldiers. 35yrs old at death doesn't fit this.

Private User I see you have researched in this area. Can you see what I'm missing in terms of a reason to link these two as father and son?

cf managers of the 3 SV PROGS - who might have a vested interest in finding the sources connecting this ancestor to such an illustrious line:
Pierre de Villiers, SV/PROG Abraham de Villiers SV/PROG 2 Jacob de Villiers, SV/PROG

Is there any reason to assume this isn't just vanity genealogy linking?

I agree Sharon. I have no problem disconnecting if there is no evidence.

I so badly want to find evidence.

A visit to France might be deemed essential travel ;to discover real ancestor .
As for vanity genealogy, I think we all might have some symptoms .
I have similar who is who with Weyers ancestors , even documents from 1600's have different first names for parents .
The C jv Rensburg descendants also similar names all over the place

It does appear that SA Genealogy - partcularly the Huguenot descendants? - went through a highly active phase of vanity genealogy and full on gullibility :-)

Not just Huguenots , we all forget one can not choose one's family .

Why new atDNA a valuable tool in finding the right ancestry .

Now, significantly, Pierre de Villiers was Ecuyer Lord of Chantemerle, Councillor of the King, Judge and magistrate, Echevin and Mayor in 1630. ?? Son of Louis de Villiers .

this might be the correct Pierre de Vlliers a Mayor in 1630 would be old in 1685

yet on GENI Pierre de Villiers only born 1631 ?

Now I just wish that the "Don't kill the messenger" principle would be more stringently applied by people losing their royal lines :-)

One can not just blame vanity but also for example people like DR WJ de Kock who created a parallel universe . Afrikaans South Africans origins were either from Holland or France and English South Africans from England .

You can try to e-mail or sms the message !

Pierre DEVILLIERS
(1631 - 1662)

Born in Boulogne-Billancourt, 92100, Hauts-de-Seine, Île-de-France, France on 1er mai 1631 to Claude DEVILLIERS and Claudine VALLIER. Pierre DEVILLIERS married Jeanne LEGUÉ. He passed away on 20 août 1662 in Boulogne-Billancourt, 92100, Hauts-de-Seine, Île-de-France, France.

Or

Pierre de Vlliers born 1625
Born in La Rochelle, France on 1625 to Pierre de Villiers and Joséphine Isabelle Closquet. Pierre De Villiers had 1 child.

Pierre DEVILLIERS
(1628 - Unknown)
Born on 1628 to Charles DEVILLIERS and Judith TESTARD. Pierre DEVILLIERS married Marie MACQUINGHEM

When did Paul de Villiers become one of the sons of Pierre de Villiers ?
only 3 sons ever mentioned .

? Names on Huguenot monument in Paarl ?
where is
Lefèbvre (LeFèvre) ?

in 1948 too dark

Paul stayed behind, according to the story in the overview.

Yes - apartheid genealogy is something else altogether.

Sharon Doubell According to Hugenote van Suid Afrika 1688-1988 by Dr P Coertzen according to me the most accurate available except for France Archive Records Pierre DE VILLIERS was born in Lo Rochelle (Aunis) in 1657 and died on 22 January 1720 in SA. Arrived on Ship CHINA in 1689 and married to Maria Elizabeth TAILLEFERT and had 3 sons and 4 daughters.
His brother Abraham arrival the same, place of birth the same. Born in 1695 and diefd in SA on 31 March 1720. Married to Susanne GArdiol and had 2 sons and 5 daughters.
His brother Jacques all the same but born in 1661 and died in 1735. Married Marguerite Gardiol and had 6 sons and 5 daughters.

That is just quick.

I don't think apartheid should be drawn in here.☺

Not genealogy at all.

Sharon Doubell I can find this one https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DTHL-C6?i=180&...

Pierre DE VILLIERS s.o. Charles dV and Marthe PIERARD baptised 24 Dec 1634

And then this one that is a little closer to d.o.b.
Name: Pierre De Villiers
Event Type: Baptism
Event Date: 28 Jan 1665
Event Place: Amagne, Ardennes, Champagne-Ardenne, France
Event Place (Original): Amagne, Ardennes, France
Gender: Male
Birthplace: Amagne, Ardennes, France
Father's Name: Jan De Villiers
Mother's Name: Anne Grisart
Record Number: 2551
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1TG-BY1

And this one is the fathers name is Jan that could have become Jean or Jan as per children of Pierre and his brother, Jaques(Jacobs) sons.

But not a definate yes or source as yet.

Judith Susanna Hendrika Meyer
Sharon posted :
Present info has Pierre de Villiers
Birth 08 July 1631 Saint-Martin-du-Lac, Saône-et-Loire, Burgundy, France
Death: 22 May 1667 (35) Bar Sur Seine, Aube, Grand Est, France

This cannot be correct because the Overview story has him as an old man advising his grown sons to flee the Catholic soldiers. 35yrs old at death doesn't fit this.

A different father for him perhaps or a different Pierre de V. completely ?
As Sharon also asks was an Illustrious ancestor Seigneur de Villiers more " smart" than an ordinary man ?
Problem is we are also now trapped by Huguenot History we find in SA and online that may not be correct for many reasons -- some agenda the author thereof might have had perhaps or not all records known at that time .
I have 1745 Record of family , 1489 and old German baptism records for my family but a lot of them differ as well e.g. 1460 Father of Gerhusa can be Fridrich , Ludwig or Hans von Hutten (3 brothers ) and 3 different mothers as well . Maybe 3 cousins same name ?

Judith -
1948 Huguenot Monument and associated genealogy was very much part of new Government at that time 's attempt to create a 'history ' for ?? --an Afrikaner Identity ?
No denying that !
It is very much part of this genealogy made to fit a preconceived idea of whom those ancestors should be .
Ancestors were needed to show an impressive history and we now stuck with that legacy . Any search online and one is confronted with this barrier of Huguenot history that one has to try and avoid ; to get to the truth .
I do believe that Sharon is right a bit of " vanity genealogy " with Pierre de Villiers

Yup. And all the children with white fathers and the 'wrong' colour mothers who were left off the list - that we now try to fit in between the numbering systems. It's worth mentioning the problems it created for contemporary SA genealogy.

Anyway -https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1TG-BY1 is very interesting. Do we know for sure that it links to our Pierre?

But Champagne is far from LaRochelle

I don't have the deVilliers on the ship https://www.geni.com/projects/China-Huguenot-Ship-to-the-Cape/38321 but on the https://www.geni.com/projects/Zion-Huguenot-Ship-to-the-Cape/38342.

Not on the China, but on the Zion. (Sorry, I thought the project links would show the names above)

born 1665 -- for Pierre de V born 1657 ?