Is Rane Eyvindsson son of Eyvind Ranesson Sodheim

Good, then I think you can come up with sources that show there are no arguments about Rane's brothers and sons. And genvagar.nu is not a reliable source since there are no source citations on this site.

When there are no sources, preferably contemporary ones, that can confirm a relationship, then we are left with guesswork, more or less educated, but still guesswork. We don't want guesswork to be a part of our linked tree, but this information can be mentioned in the About section of the profile. Having guesswork shown in our tree makes other users think that the link is proven correct, which is uncorrect, and then the false link will spread out to other trees in private and online genealogical works. This is the normal way of doing our genealogy.

The middleage genealogists in Norway state that the ancestry of Rane Eyvindsson is unknown and no new knowledge about this has come since this statement was made i 2006 as far as I know.

Linking the profiles in question: Rane Eyvindsson and Eivind Sodheim.

the tree around Eyvind Raneson are in dire need of a clean-up. His parents should be removed aswell, per this discussion: https://www.geni.com/discussions/108279

I found this reference

Kirkeby, Birger. Builder's book for Sauherad, gards and ottog . (Sauherad: Utgjevar Sauherad municipality, 1980-1988), 4: 517, Eight from Søum and Reine in Sandsvær.
'Elin Ranesdotter [child of Rane Eivindsson and Åsa Salmundsd.], Gm siblings child Peter Nikulasson, fehirde in Tunsberg, Governor of Vestfold, page in Sud-Hålogaland, mentioned 1363 to 1405'

translation: Elin Ranesdatter [child of Rane Eivindsson and Åsa Salmundsd .], married to her cousin Peter Nikulasson, treasurer in Tunsberg, provincial judge in Vestfold, later in Sud-Hålogaland, mentioned 1363 to 1405.

If Elin Ranesdatter the daughter of Rane Eivindsson married her cousin Peter Nikulasson that means that Rane's brother was Niculas Eivindssøn Søum the father of Peter Nikulasson.

Nikolas Eivindsson

Nikulasson is listed as being the son of Eyvind Ranesson Sodheim.

Is this close enough for a reference ?

Rane Eyvindsson The son of Eyvind Ranesson Sodheim ?

Eyvind Ranesson Sodheim

Rane Eyvindsson

There is a claim that Rane Eyvindsson is not the son of Eyvind Ranesson Sodheim just because no relationship has been proven.

I would like at this point to tell you our story -> I live in finland, and my mother's parents (cousins) their mothers father Josef Arvid Sjöholm have came to Finland from Skåne, Sweden in year 1870 and ... this line goes as follows ...

gen 4
Jöns (Jozef Arvid) Sjöholm, mmmf,mfmf
B. 14. Dec 1833
St Petris församling, Södra Börringe, Malmö, Skåne County, Sweden
D. 5. Feb 1886

hans far

gen 5
Lars Sjöholm
B. 14. Joulu 1780
Hyby, Gustavs församling, Malmö, Sverige
D. 1841

hans far

gen 6
Hans Sjöholm
B.Aug 1739
Ljungby, Kronoberg County, Sweden
D. 22 May 1805

hans mor

gen 7
Anna Christina Hofverberg (Sjöholm)
B. 1719 Skåne County, Sweden
D.11. Joulu 1788

hennes far

gen 8
Cornett Anders Hofverberg
B. 1689
Cornett/ "Hofwerberg, Anders; född i Skåne; var korpral vid Upplands 5-männingsregemente 1711; andre kornett med senat. fullm. 6/11 1711; förste kornett 22/7 1712; konungens konfirm. 25/3 1715; afsked 30/9 1719; tjänat 18 år; lefde i Cimbrishamn 1729".

hans far

gen 9
Christian/ Christiern Hofverberg
Christian Hofverberg, f 24 nov 1657, inskrevs i Ångermanlands nations matrikel i Uppsala 1675 och som student vid universitetet 16 jan 1676 och var bl a kyrkoherde i Malmö och slutligen i Vää. Han begravs 1690. Fadern var khden i Berg Joan Sigvardii.

hans mor

gen 10
Kristina Hansdotter Berg (Sigvardi)

B.1620 Ragunda Municipality, Jamtland County, Sweden
D. 1696

hennes mor

gen 11
Margareta Lauritsdatter Blix (Nielsen Berg ( Sedlandus ))
B. 1575 Undersåker, Jämtland, Norge
D. 21. Mars 1632

hennes mor

gen 12
Kirsten Eriksdotter (Blix)
B.1535 Oviken, Jämtland, Norge
D.1624
Dotter till reformatorn o kyrkoherde Erik Andersson i Oviken

hennes far

gen 13
Ericus Andreae, Landsprost
B.1498 Uppsala, Sverige
D.1563
Kyrkoherde i Oviken 1526-63, Prost i Jemtland, Kyrkoherde, Landsprost, Landsprost i Oviken

hans mor

gen 14
Kerstin Jensdatter [Skanke] (Kettilsson Blix i Bjärme)
B. 1465 Billsta, Hackås, Trøndelagen/Jämtland, Norge
D. 1527

hennes far

gen 15
Jens Karlson Skunck
B.1420 Hov, Hackås, Berg, Jämtland, Ruotsi
D.1488
Lagman och bonde i Billsta, Hackås, Jämtland

hans far

gen 16
Karl Pedersson [Skanke], (Skanke)
B. 1360 Hackås, Berg, Jämtland, Norge
D.15.Mai 1430
Väpnare (Riddare) och Herre i Hov, Kjent som "gamle Karl i Hov"., Ridder og jordeier, squire, Væpner og jordeier, Væpner (ridder) og jordeier., Carolus Petri kallad, Ridder og Jordeier, Ridder, Väpnare och ägare av sätesgården Hov i Hackås

hans mor

gen 17
Elin Ranesdatter Ranesdotter (Nikulasson Schanke Hov)
B.1340 Tønsberg, Tønsberg, Vestfold, Norway
D. 2. Feb 1430

hennes far

gen 18
Rane (Lodvik) Eyvindsson (o.s. Evindsson)
B. 1310 Tønsberg, Vestfold, Norge
D.1396
Ridder og fehirde i Tunsberg nevnt 1349 til 1362, væpner, Ridder og Fehirde, Ridder, fehirde, Ridder nevnt i 1349, Ridder nevnt i 1349
Knight, mentioned in 1349, Royal Treasurer in Tonsberg.

hans far

gen 18
Eyvind Ranesson Sodheim
B.1280 Søndre Reine, Sandsvær, Kongsberg, Buskerud, Norja
D.1336
på Sodheim i Komnes f.ca 1280 gift med sannsynligvis datter til ridder Peter Jakobsson av Halland(av Skjalm Hvites og kong Waldemar Siers mektige ætter i Danmark), Han fikk søndre Reine i Komnes sokn i Sandsvær i ca.1336

hans far

gen 19
Rane Jonsen Rani' Jonsen av Gjørslev, K & K
B.1254 Gjorslev på Sjælland i Danmark
D.1294
Gjorslev Herremann på Gjerslev, kgl.kammerherre og ridder.
etc….

If this line doesn't go like this, how can we both my mother's sister and I can appear directly in dna at gedmatch:

my mother's sister Kerttu Ekman and Vanda Galen share autosomal genetics

in genes 1,4,5,6,7,8,12,14,15,20 largest segment 5.3 cM total segments 32.8 and 14 matching segments

and I and Vanda Galen share genetics in genes 1,2,3,4,6,10,11,12, and 14.
Largest segment 3,4 cM total segments 27,0 and 14 matching segments
So there is a direct autosomal line and if this is not true, how do we have the same genome with the genus Galen - Hvide?

also
Shelley Brandenburger and my aunt Kerttu got a common genome in genes 1,2,5,6,7,9,11,12, and 14
largest segment 3.5 cM total segments 26.9 and 11 matching segments

and I have genes in 1,2,4,7,12,15,16,19,20 and 22 genes
largest segment 3.5 cM total segments 26.9 and 11 matching segments
largest segment 5.3 cM total segments 31.4 and 13 matching segments

These matches are very distant but so is this connection also …

Let's be honest about genealogy in this forum. Get more proof by contacting irma.ekman at outlook.com .. i don't associate gedmatch results directly with this program, but please contact me to find out the truth. These are DNA results.

Sincerely, Irma Ekman

Private User you need to start listen to others before you make request of cutting off lines, unfortunately, You have earlier displayed a bad habit when you has just cutted some lines on your own behalf (guesswork) without consulting the profile managers of the concerned profiles, which leaves a lot to say about your attitude to others people's judgements.

Ok Mr. Remi Trygve Pedersen

I would say that the above DNA evidence from Irma Ekman trumps your justification of no direct link.

Please restore the family tree and set things right.

Martin

Regarding the DNA-results. Elin Ranesdatter is Irma Ekman ancestor in generation 17. That means that Elin is one of 131072 ancestors from about 800 years ago. Scandinavians have so much common DNA that it is almost impossible to find the exact link between the matches, especially when the match is so small like ones above. The DNA-match might aswell be from any of the other 131071 ancestors at genearation 17, this doesn't prove anything. The relationship between Rane Jonsen and his alleged son Eivind Raneson has however proven to be wrong, see more below.

About you're source Martin Emanuel: I've read the page mentioned, and also the whole chapter. Even though the author states that the are cousins, he doesn't really have a source for it. He just claims that they are cousins because he is of the impression that their fathers were brothers. This book is from 1988, and also contains other claims, like the claim that Eivind Raneson was the son of Rane Jonson. This latest claim has been proven wrong by Jo Rune Ugulen in the thesis "Kring ætta på Ornes og Mel i mellomalderen, samt noko om Rane Jonssons etterkomarar og slekta Hjerne (Hjärne)." from 2004. The main evidence is that because Kristina Nikolaisdatter (possible a daughter of Nikolai Raneson) inherits all of the land that Rane Jonsen and Alv Erlingsen owned, she has to be the only descendent that is still lived.

However, when I read this I was thinking "this doesn't prove that Rane Eivindson isn't the brother of Nikolaus Eivindson, they could both be from the Sandsvær-family, thus making Elin Ranesdatter the cousin of her husband Peter Nicolausen". Lucky for us, the respected Norwegian medieval genealogist got an answer for that aswell: "Det er absolutt ingen grunn til å anta at Elin Ranesdotter var gift med sitt eget søskenbarn." https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/219206-peder-nilsen-skancke-f-ca...

Translated to English: "There is absolutely no reason to assume that Elin Ranesdatter var married to her cousin"

Lastly, I must apologize to Ulf if I have cut off line that are correct. I try to check the sources before I cut off lines, and in most cases I only cut off lines that have been proven to be wrong, even though it should be the other way around: family-lines should be proven if they should stay on Geni. But please let me know where I have made a mistake, or if I do a mistake in the future.

It still comes down to the point that you offer no proof that the relationship in question did not exist. How about you prove that there is a different relationship.

Martin

There is a book written by Crister Jonsson called Elin Ranesdotter. It appears to have references which I unfortunately can not read.
I downloaded a pdf file of the book. I will try email it to Ruben, Ulf, and Irma. Please tell me what it says and if there is any proof of anything.

I believe it says Rane Eyvindsson married the bishops daughter Aase Salomonsdatter Selvik.
I think it also says Peder Nilsson married Kristina Halvardsdotter the daughter of Halvard Karlsson.
It also says Elin Ranesdotter married Peder Nilulasson whos was the son of Nikulas Eyvindssons.

That's all I can make out.

Martin

I can't attach the file please email me directly at marty_nordstrom@shaw.ca and I'll send you each the file.

Thanks

I'm no expert on medieval genealogy, so I try to find out what the experts means about these things as they got much bigger insight than I do, just like I'd listen to what a scientist says is true when it comes to physics or chemistry.

This is a direct quote from Norwegian medieval genealogist Are Gustavsen, and he is talking about the file or book you found from Crister Jonson:

"There is absolutely no reason to assume that Elin Ranesdotter was married to her own cousin. Much of what appears in the attached file is not plausible, and therefore unlikely. Several of the people from the 14th century are additionally equipped with family names they are not source-related with. [names that aren't used in the sources]
 
Therefore, I would recommend other participants of this debate to completely disregard the aforementioned appendix. (...)"

When I look at the file, there are some sources, but they doesn't necessarily support the claims in question:
*DNXXI:21 only states that it existed a man named Halvard Karlson, as he was a witness in a case between the two Aspa-brothers Arne and Sigurd Gulbrandsson.
*Kristina Halvarsdotter is mentioned in 1348 as owner of land in Våle, Häckås.

Crister Jonson also claims that Peder Nilsen Skanke wasn't married to Elin Ranesdatter at all, but rather with a women with the same name as his mother, Kristina Hallvarsdotter.

Irma Ekman autosomal DNA is only usable in genealogically 5-6 generations back. Further back it is not possible to distuingish between what is a person in the family and what is just random dna hits.

Also, a segment of 5,3 is very small, and probably not possible to distuingish with what is just a random dna hit.

I have 8 cousins of mine with a longest block of 50cM, which makes a longest block of 5cm very small and it will not be possible to say if that person is a familymember or if it is just a random hit.

So, using autosomal DNA to prove more than 6 generations back from the person being dna tested is not possible because it will not be possible to distuingish the matches and just random dna hits to the testers dna.

Martin Emanuel you say: "It still comes down to the point that you offer no proof that the relationship in question did not exist." what you ask is impossible. There will never be a proof of people not being in a relationship. So if I say that you, Martin, had a relationship with Lois, and linked that relationship here on Geni. And you stated that it is not true. Then, according to you, I can say that you must show proof of you never having a relationship with Lois before I will remove the relationship, and if you are not able to show any proof, it will stay that way on Geni. Will you be able to find such a proof?

Your point is not lost on me. All I am asking is that you allow some reasonable level of family tree evidence or even circumstantial evidence to be allowed on Geni. There are hundreds of links on Geni where no case can be made for a link and yet you as curators seemingly do not mind those to exist. I am only asking for a fair playing field and you and others are not playing fair.

Consider Ragnar Lodbruk as a prime example. The Frans mention a Ragnar in some journals and the rest in all questionable. His link is alive and well. I suggest that I have supplied you was reasonable evidence showing that the brothers appear to be brothers. You I am sure do not dispute that the father is at least a father to one of the brothers. Reason would suggest that this is more proof then can be made for Ragnar.
I am only asking a fair balance, I totally agree, so far that I have no found a silver bullet so to speak, but I believe there is enough to suggest a reasonable possibility that Rane Eyvindsson son of Eyvind Ranesson Sodheim.

Please be fair and restore the link. Suggest that it is not proven is fine but at least acknowledge that you do no know for sure either way.

Reasonable possibility is not good enough to be linked in the tree, but it is good enough to be mentioned in the biography of the person (About me), and that is where all these maybe's belong. When we start linking these maybe's, other people will take them for being the truth and copy them and then we will have a genealogical virus spreading throughout the internet because we allowed a nonproven maybe be linked in our tree. This is something we should avoid at all costs, since I believe that our familytree should be as correct as possible and not have constructed links without any proof. And I also think that you agree with this, Martin.

So, keep this out of the lineage-linked tree, but write about the speculations in the About me.

You didn't answer my question about Ragnar. As you are the curator of Ragnar you should disconnect him as you did with Ranes and his possible father..

I know you will not do this so there is the unfair double standard.
Hold yourself to the standard you are imposing in this tree and I will stop buggy you.

Martin

I'm working on disconnecting Ragnar's descendants from persons that really have existed. But it is hard sometimes to find the right link to disconnect.

It is also a big difference working in the 12th Century when Rane lived compared to the 6th Century when the legendary Ragnar lived. It's all about finding the sources, and it's a lot harder the further back in time you go.

Why don't you simply do like you have done all over the Geni site with numerous disconnections. You are now making excuses. You can not have it both ways. If you are going to continue this double standard I will voice a complaint against you with the curators of Geni. I have provided you with more evident that Rane and his father are related then you can possibly prove that Ragnar even existed. Either restore my connection or cut Ragnar.
Martin

As I said, we are working on cutting the link to Ragnar Lodbrok, the job is to find out where to make the cuts, since it needs to be several cuts. There will be no cut between Ragnar and his children, the cuts will be some generatons closer to our time. And just to make it clear: Ragnar Lodbrok, as he is depicted in the sagas written about him and his family, have never existed. Those sagas are just good stories, just like Cinderella.

And rest assured, all of the cuts I have made are not cut before I/we have researched the family around the person in question and found out what other reseachers opinion on the subject are. This information is usually added to the about me of the profile that have been cut from his/her nonproven family. If in doubt I/we start a discussion usually among the curators to get the opinion of other curators.

So, basically, your statement in your first sentence, Martin, is plain wrong.

Attention Remi Trygve Pedersen

I have been reading as much as I can with this Rane / Eyvind relationship. In some of the notes in the Rane profile he is sometimes referred to as Rane Lodvid or Rane Lodin and also Riddar Rane Eivindsson. I added the Lodvik profile believing that Rane and Lodvik were brothers, now I am wondering if Lodvk and Rane are actually the same person. I read somewhere that Asa Salundsdatter was married to Lovid and of cource many spots where it says married to Rane. I can't find that link so will need to look more. Do you think this is possible.

Attention Remi Trygve Pedersen

Please open the profile so facts can be added to the profile.under the overview. It's unfair of you as curator to lock a profile is other views can not be expressed.

Martin Nordstrom

Write the text here in this discussion so we can evaluate it.

No - you have no right to pre-screen evidence so it passes through you filter before it is considered good enough to add. Shame on you.

Martin Nordstrom

It's not my filter, it's our filter. This is a public discussion on Geni so what you write here will be under the scrutiny of everyone that want's to read it. But if you don't think what you want to add to the About me will endure the public scrutiny......

My compliant is not about the facts. It is the method being used to determine what the acceptable evidence is that I have concerns about. As curators many of you are basing your "facts" on your personal interruption of the evidence that you are personally choosing to use while rebuffing any debate about your facts and choosing to ignore some of the old sagas as mentioned by others in this discussion. This is not the way to get at the real truth.

Case in point is Eyvind Ranesson Sodheim and his possible son Rane Eyvindsson. When curators lock the profile so no other information can be added you are not helping to create a world tree where if additional facts are found, those facts can be easily added. If new information can only be added when a curator approves them and makes a personal judgement on the merits of the information through his own person view something is very wrong This is NOT the way to have input that could be important to the overall profile. I am not the only one complaining and sometimes my frustration has shown. It's extremely important to be seen to be fair and some of your curators have lost their perspective. I am not deputing any of Remi's facts, just the dictatorial methods he is using to lock profiles in order to control the agenda. That is not fair and that method is not getting any respect from me and obviously from many others. Remi you need to unlock the controls and allow contributes that could be a benefit to Geni as a whole.

Martin Nordstrom

My compliant is not about the facts. It is the method being used to determine what the acceptable evidence is that I have concerns about. As curators many of you are basing your "facts" on your personal interruption of the evidence that you are personally choosing to use while rebuffing any debate about your facts and choosing to ignore some of the old sagas as mentioned by others in this discussion. This is not the way to get at the real truth.

Case in point is Eyvind Ranesson Sodheim and his possible son Rane Eyvindsson. When curators lock the profile so no other information can be added you are not helping to create a world tree where if additional facts are found, those facts can be easily added. If new information can only be added when a curator approves them and makes a personal judgement on the merits of the information through his own person view something is very wrong This is NOT the way to have input that could be important to the overall profile. I am not the only one complaining and sometimes my frustration has shown. It's extremely important to be seen to be fair and some of your curators have lost their perspective. I am not deputing any of Remi's facts, just the dictatorial methods he is using to lock profiles in order to control the agenda. That is not fair and that method is not getting any respect from me and obviously from many others. Remi you need to unlock the controls and allow contributes that could be a benefit to Geni as a whole.

Martin Nordstrom