Kvenland is the place where first of the European royals were born

Started by Private User on Sunday, December 16, 2018
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Private User
12/16/2018 at 10:19 PM

There is a FACEBOOK GROUP about history of KVENLAND here: https://www.facebook.com/Kvenland/posts/1412056828892528:0?__tn__=K-R

It is in english and with people from all over the world, with historians, linguistics, new archealogical findings included supporting old sagas. I strongly recommend it if you have some questions or interest to our Finnish/Kvenland history. It is not a "mythical place nor the kings and queens are not either mythical more or less then mythical rulers of Rome, Britain or anywhere else.

EUROPEAN ROYALS DESCENDED FROM RULERS OF FINLAND, KVENLAND AND GOT(H)LAND

Faravid (Finnish: Kaukomieli) was a "King of Kvenland", as stated in Egil's Saga, which spans over the years of c. 850–1000, in the Viking Age.

Orkneyinga saga describes the early 1st millennium AD ruler Fornjót as a "king", who "reigned over Gotland, which we now know as Finland and Kvenland".

Hversu Noregr byggðist tells that Snær was a great-grandson of Fornjót and – as in Orkneyinga saga – son of 'Frost son of Kári', and father of Thorri, and that Snær and Thorri were kings, and that Thorri "ruled over Gotland, Kvenland and Finland".

Both accounts state that a great sacrifice was made yearly at mid-winter, offered either by Thorri (in Orkneyinga saga) or by Kvens to Thorri (in Hversu Noregr byggðist).

Snær is mentioned also in Ynglinga saga, in relation to Finland. Thorri had two sons named Nór – the founder of Norway – and Gór and a daughter named Gói.

Based on medieval accounts, the ruling families of England, Denmark, France, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Normandy, Norway, Orkney Islands, Rome, Russia, Scotland, Sweden and Ukraine – among others – descended from the primeval kings of Finland, Kvenland and Got(h)land.

Medieval accounts discussing the lineages sprung from the primeval Finnic "king" Fornjót and his descendants, mainly Nór and Gór, leading to the rulers of the above-mentioned and other countries include – but are not limited to – the following:

• Beowulf (8th – early 11th century) • Íslendingabók (8th–10th century) • Poetic Edda (c. 800–1000) • Ynglingatal (late 9th century) • Primary Chronicle (c. 1095) • Historia Norvegiæ (late 12th century) • Gesta Danorum (started c. 1185, finished c. 1216) • Skáldskaparmál (c. 1220) • Ynglinga saga (c. 1225) • Orkneyinga saga (c. 1230) • Heimskringla (c. 1230) • Hyndluljóð (13th century) • Hversu Noregr byggðist (oldest surviving transcript dates to 1387) • and its appended Ættartolur (1387).

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• BIRTHS OF NORWAY AND SWEDENORIGINS OF EUROPEAN ROYALS IN FINLAND, KVENLAND AND GOT(H)LAND

Kvens are a Finnic people in Northern Europe. Various spellings in historical sources include – but are not limited to – Cwen, Kvæn, Quen and Qven. Finnic synonyms for Kven include kainulainen, kainuulainen, pohjolainen and kveeni. The land of the Kvens, Kvenland, gave birth to Norway, Sweden and the Yngling and Rurik Dynasties, from which founders and rulers of many countries descended: http://history.kvenland.org
Faravid (Finnish: Kaukomieli) was a "King of Kvenland", as stated in Egil's Saga, which spans over the years of c. 850–1000, in the Viking Age.

The ‘History of the Earls of Orkney’ (“Orkneyinga saga”) describes the early 1st millennium ruler Fornjót as a "king", who "reigned over Gotland, which we now know as Finland and Kvenland".

Hversu Noregr byggðist tells that Snær was a great-grandson of Fornjót and – as in Orkneyinga saga – son of 'Frost son of Kári', and father of Thorri, and that Snær and Thorri were kings, and that Thorri "ruled over Gothland, Kvenland and Finland".

Prince Rurik was the founder of the early polity that led to the births of Ukraine, Russia and Belarus. According to the Primary Chronicle (c. 1095), Rurik was one of the Rus' (Varyags, in Old East Slavic), a Varangian tribe likened by the chronicler to Danes, Swedes, Angles, and Gotlanders.

Based on DNA findings and other evidence, Rurik was a Finnic Kven. He likely descended from the early 1st millennium Finnic rulers of Finland, Kvenland and Got(h)land, and their Scandinavian royal offspring.

Rurik's place of birth is claimed to have been the Roslagen seashore in the modern-day Province of Uppland in Sweden.

In the early 9th century, when Rurik was born, the territory ruled by Kvens, known as Kvenland, bordered Roslagen, and only quite recently had the Sveas (Old English: Sweonas; Latin: Suiones, Suehans and Sueones) integrated with the Kvens of the region.

• Rurik's home and ethnic groups in 840 in what now is Sweden – http://840.kvenland.org

Still during the late Viking Age and beyond, Kvenland extended to the northernmost arctic edges of Europe, based on medieval written sources and other evidence.

One such source is a list of countries in 'Leiðarvísir og borgarskipan', a geographical chronicle and a guidebook for pilgrims about routes from Northern Europe to Rome and Jerusalem, written by an Icelandic Abbot Níkulás Bergsson in the monastery of Þverá (Munkaþverá) in c. 1157.

Written circa three and a half centuries after the birth of Prince Rurik, Abbot Bergsson provides the following description of the lands near Norway:

"Closest to Denmark is little Sweden (Svíþjóð), there is Öland (Eyland); then is Gotland; then Hälsingland (Helsingaland); then Värmland (Vermaland); then two Kvenlands (Kvenlönd), and they extend to north of Bjarmia (Bjarmaland)."

Based on that description and other historical evidence, the southern border of Kvenland had by then shifted northbound considerably from Rurik's lifetime, but Kvenland still then covered the Fennoscandian territory north of Hälsingland and Värmland.

The names "Rus", "Ruotsi" and "Russia" share a common Finnic origin. Historically, and up to date, Finns inhabiting the eastern side of the Gulf of Bothnia have referred to the area on the western side of the gulf – modern-day Sweden – as "Ruotsi", and an inhabitant of the area as "ruotsalainen", from which the name Rus' derives from.

The vast majority of what today is Sweden was in the 9th century a part of Kvenland. Then already, the Finnic Kvens inhabiting the area were referred to by the Finns on the eastern side of the Gulf of Bothnia – in today's Finland – as ruotsalainen.

The Rus' were part of a larger Finnic group known as Varangians, who were seafaring Finnic warriors and traders. They spread their influence to large territories southeast from Fennoscandia.

The names "Varangian" and "Varyag" also share ancient Finno-Ugric origins, and are related to such Finnish language terms as "vara", "vaara", "varanto", etc.

Similarly, the Finnish terms "venäläinen" (meaning "Russian") and "vene" (meaning "boat") and the Estonian term "venelane" ("vene" in spoken language, meaning "Russian") share common Finnic roots.

Related to the names "Varangian" and "Varyag" is also the Finnish language name "Varanginvuono" (Sami: Várjavuonna; Norwegian: Varangerfjord; English: Varanger Fjord, meaning literally "Varangian" Fjord/Bay). It is the name of a fjord on the coast of the Arctic Ocean, in the modern-day area of Northern Norway.

In his study 'Kvenland - Kainuunmaa' (1986, p. 113–118), Kyösti Julku discusses the maps of Abraham Ortelius from 1570, Gerhard Mercator from 1595 and Adrian Veen from 1613. In these maps, the name "Caienska Semla" is marked next to Varangerfjord.

The Ortelius and Mercator maps are pictured in Julku's study. "Caienska Semla" can be seen written west from Vardø (Finnish: Vuoreija, Vuorea) and Varangerfjord.

According to Julku – and others –, the Finnish language meaning of the Latin term "Caienska Semla" is "Kainuun maa", which means "Land of Kainuu". Today, historians widely agree that the Finnic names Kainu, Kainuu and Kainuunmaa and the non-Finnic name Kvenland are synonyms.

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FINNISH TRADING CENTERS NEVANLINNA AND LAATOKANLINNA WERE RIVER-GATES FROM FENNOSCANDIA TO EASTERN EUROPE

In 1611, at the start of Sweden's (Sweden-Finland) superpower era as the Swedish Empire (1611-1721), the Nyenschantz fortress (Swedish: Nyenskans) was built in the Finnish port and trading center of Nevanlinna, at the mouth of the Neva River, on the easternmost coast of the Gulf of Finland.

• Neva is Finnish for bog (a type of wetland). "Nyen" was properly Swedish for the Neva River.

The small Finnish town of Nevanlinna ("Neva Castle") standing next to the fortress was at the time referred to as both Nyen and Nyenskans in Swedish. It gained official town rights in 1642, when it became the administrative center of Swedish Ingria.

Officially, the fortress was always known as Nyenskans, even though the above-mentioned concepts were in flux in common parlance. The term "skans" is Swedish for "bastion".

A the time – and up to date –, the region of and around Nevanlinna was referred to as Ingria (Finnish: Inkeri; Swedish: Ingermanland). The area was inhabited by the Finnic Ingrian people/tribe. In the town of Nevanlinna, there was also a Swedish-speaking minority population, and even smaller German-speaking population.

• Ingria in 1698
http://1698.kvenland.org

Over time, Russian rulers had become anxious for Russia to gain a seaport on the coast of the Baltic Sea, through which Russia could begin trading overseas with maritime nations.

During the Great Northern War (1700–1721), while the army of Sweden-Finland was focused on warring against Germans and Poles, forces of the Russian Tsar Peter the Great captured the Finnish seaport of Nevanlinna on May 12, 1703. The same year, the Russian town of Saint Petersburg was founded on it's place.

This marked the first time for Russia or any of its predecessor states to have a seaport on the coast of the Baltic Sea. Before this, Staraya Ladoga (Finnish: Laatokanlinna) had been the only "Russian" port where seagoing vessels arriving from the Baltic Sea could have anchored.

The only seaport Russia had had until then was in Arkhangelsk, which was located much further north, and not by the Baltic Sea but on the coast of the White Sea instead. Arkhangelsk provided Russians access to the Arctic Ocean, but the port was closed to shipping for months during wintertime.
Over 6000 primeval rock-carvings have been found in Alta (Alattio), in what today is the province of Finnmark, part of Norway. In medieval texts, prior to becoming part of Norway, the area was then too referred to as Finnmark.

The oldest of the rock-carvings in Alta date to c. 5,200 BC, and the most recent to c. 500 BC. In Jiepmaluokta, circa four kilometers from the town of Alta, there are many thousand individual carvings. The area has been turned into an open-air museum.

The Jiepmutka site and sites in nearby Storsteinen, Kåfjord, Amtmannsnes and Transfarelv were placed on the UNESCO list of World Heritage Sites on December 3, 1985. Combined, these sites form Norway's only prehistoric World Heritage Site.

The wide variety of imagery featured in the rock-carvings shows there having been a culture of hunter-gatherers who were able to control herds of reindeer, were able to use moose for domestic practices, were adept at boat-building and fishing, and practiced shamanistic rituals involving worship of bear and other venerated animals.

Finnmark represents the northernmost continental part of Europe and – today – Norway. Up to the late Middle Ages, Finnmark was the northernmost region of the Finnic realm known as Kvenland (Finnish: Kainu, Kainuu, Kainuunmaa, Pohjola), discussed in medieval texts.

KING'S GRAVE IN SOUTHWESTERN FINLAND

Kuninkaanhauta (King's Grave) is a Bronze Age tumulus in the village of Panelia in Aura, southwestern Finland, believed to date back to c. 1100–500 BC (Edgren 1993: p. 119–120).

It is the largest burial cairn (Finnish: hiidenkiuas) in Finland. It is 36×30 meters wide and about four meters high. According to the legends, it is the burial place of a local king or chief.

The grave has never been opened. It was built on the shore of the ancient Bay of Panelia. Since the Bronze Age, the coastline has moved nearly 20 kilometers west, due to the post-glacial rebound.

Kuninkaanhauta is located about nine kilometers northeast of the UNESCO World Heritage Site of Sammallahdenmäki, which includes more than 30 Bronze Age burial cairns. The Bronze Age in Fennoscandia was in c. 1700–500 BC.

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KINGS OF FINLAND AND KVENLAND

A few Icelandic sagas tell about kings that ruled over Kvenland amd Finland. In Egils saga. Faravid is directly said to be the "King of Kvenland".

In Orkneyinga saga, Fornjót is said to be "a king". It is stated that he "reigned over Gotland, which we now know as Finland and Kvenland".

Professor Emeritus Kyösti Julku notes that no geographical errors have been found in the descriptions of the Orkneyinga saga. He asks why therefore the people described in the account should be considered not to have existed.

Hversu Noregr byggðist has very similar usage for the title. This time, the great-grandson of Fornjót, Snær, and his son Thorri are told to be kings.

Kvenland now appears in relation to Thorri, of whom it is said that "he ruled over Gothland, Kvenland (Kænlandi), and Finland". Fornjót's great-grandson Snær is also mentioned in Ynglingasaga, in relation to Finland.

Much more interesting findings, newest archealogy, DNA results on that FB page, check it out.

Fornjot "the Ancient Giant", King of Kvenland
King Thorri Snærsson, of Kvenland
Frosti Karasson, Mythical King of Kvenland
King Kari ''Wind'' Fornjotsson, of Kvenland
Rurik of Novgorod, Grand Duke

12/17/2018 at 4:52 AM

Can you suggest a good scientific source? I wrote most of the Swedish wikipedia article about the "Kven people", and I have tried to base it on academic sources. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kv%C3%A4ner

Private User
12/17/2018 at 6:11 AM
Private User
12/17/2018 at 6:14 AM

how do you join cannot see any join button

12/17/2018 at 8:21 AM

Angela, it's a page to LIKE, not join...its not a group per se..its just a page to like.

12/17/2018 at 8:24 AM

well according to Geni, they are all my GGF...(32nd-42nd)

Private User
12/17/2018 at 8:53 AM

Private User you can follow or unfollow discussions, such as this one, and you can follow or unfollow individual profiles on Geni.

12/17/2018 at 6:04 PM

Saga, thank you for an interesting post. Was it all copied from a single web page? There seem to be a few gaps in the logic but for a nice it it's a good introductory overview.

As a side note, I was watching a lecture by an Old Norse specialist the other night who made the point that there is no contemporary sources that define Jotunn=Giant rather that this is a modern fallacy. I will post a link.

Private User
12/17/2018 at 9:33 PM

It has been fascinating to see new archaeological findings and they continue to go on. There is not much archeology done in Finland, because of our history with Sweden, all the finding have been basicly just written down: "Seems to be old grave, no further investigation done.

Alex, texts are to be found here https://www.facebook.com/Kvenland/posts/1412056828892528:0?__tn__=K...
our page of Kvenland :) I shared only some, because there are ton of it.

There a huge problem with our museum agency, after people began to recognize that our country is the scene of all kinds of ancient sites, people started to use the metal detectors themselves. According to the laws of our country, all old, must be returned to the state. Now the museum has no resources to explore thousands of findings. In the best cases, it has opened completely new paths and changes to today's interpretation of our history. Our Museum of hstory belonges to the goverment, but it has no money to research aything, so there is a big lack of interest and money has to be raised from independent foundations.

There is a document serie of making incredible findings of swords and treasures to be found here on our national tv YLE :https://areena.yle.fi/1-3812175

It must be remembered that during the Swedish rule, everything related to the ancient history of Finland was forbidden and Finns, unfortunately, experienced huge discrimination from the Swedes. There have been times when we were punished even by death of speaken our own language. Church also attacked to old sacred places and burned almost everything. Also ancient drums were burned and over 100 collected to Sweden, they also wont give us back the drums. All is well documented in books of clergy, who recorded it.

In the year 1873 , Sweden robbed our graves from oldest sacred graveyards, collected old skulls for racial investigations, which were continued in German with devastating consequences. 2015 The Karoliniska institute has returned the skulls to other indigenous peoples, but they refuse to return the skulls of our Finnish Kvenland ancestors, places are well recorded up where they have been stolen.

It has been all over the news last week: https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/70e03f58-99e3-4138-8bd5-c3268449...

Here are the links to stoneage Jätinkirkot=Giants Church, old old finnish names for these holy places, that are older then Stonehenge, with similar astronomical structure:

https://www.nykysuomi.com/2016/09/29/suomen-kivikautiset-rakennelma...

Finns are completely genetically distinct from Europe and Russia and they are considered to be first indigenous people in Europe, including the Sámi. They also found some years ago The Mesolithic man, who lived in Spain around 7,000 years ago, with totally Finnish DNA and that surprised everybody: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jan/26/swarthy-blue-eyed-c...

Here: Finland, girl who lived here in the year 400. With facial reconstruction made: https://kalmistopiiri.wordpress.com/2018/01/17/kasvot-voyrin-kaldam...

Finnishh language as people is very old and it diffrens a lot from European languages.

STUDY: FINNO-UGRIC AND SUMERIAN LANGUAGES RELATED

In May, 2016, a new study by the internationally highly regarded Finnish Assyriologist Simo Parpola was published by Eisenbrauns. The American publishing house has published several studies of Parpola (born 1943), pertaining to Mesopotamia and the Assyrian language, culture and history. http://www.icge.co.uk/languagesciencesblog/?p=1336

Enjoy the links :)

Private User
12/17/2018 at 9:47 PM

And what comes to myths made around normal people living in ancient times, it is the same thing as anywhere else. As I have said before:
Here in North, it has always been tradition, like in many other cultures, that even if stories and topics may be distant, they have been shaped by content, hero characters and contexts of events as part of their own tradition. The prevailing culture and mentality shapes the hero of the stories into the ideals and views of the community in that time. The role of the hero falls traditionally, one way or another, for the one who stands out from the group, including the case of a historical person, which begins to accumulate completely fictitious material.

That has happened to every saint in Catholic church or whatever religion. Jotuni is one of the oldest names is Finland and Norway that still exist. Also "giant" - there are several long peoples graves found, 1,90 -2.10 meters might have been guite a giant for ancient people.

Here a interesting reads of Kalevanpojat, our national treasure Kalevala is sharing same interesting stories. http://www.narvasoft.fi/kalevanpojat/?fbclid=IwAR3VphChRlId19zju6nT...

12/18/2018 at 4:34 AM
12/22/2018 at 7:27 PM

Saga, I don't question the stories. Everything, even the Bible, began as oral traditions until someone figured out how to write it down. Why would the Kvenland stories be any less true than any story in the Bible, Torah or Quoran? Why should we automatically assume its myth? Sometimes scholars need to think outside the box a bit.

Private User
12/22/2018 at 10:04 PM

My Saami great grandfathers and mothers had their old traditions and stories that still live. "Norse mythology" has been most of the times investigated from aspect of "vikings" and of course there are so much more.

Saami people of the North are the oldest culture here and their stories, old names, one of the oldest languages of the world, are mixed in these same stories. So for me it has been interesting to have written and documented data from long line of indigenous saami healers of my near family and ancestry. Also we have Kalevala. So with Kalevala, old sagas, culture of indigenous Saami people, the whole history is not somewhere in the past, we still live hear. My mothers side are still living in the old ways in these ancient places with reindeers.

It would be fun to see this american cowboy from youtube to go there, explaning them what their believes or familystories really are. :) n all respect. About jotuni, it is still used as lastname, verb of that name means in traditional stories "eater", (=syöjätär) we have stories in Kalevala about syöjätär also) giant, monster. The giants, monsterous danger, stories are there in the indigenous stories in North. I am intersted to see the whole aspect of my ancestors, both Norse , Kven, Kalevala and Saami, their stories and cultures are mixed together in the past.

Private User
1/5/2019 at 8:23 AM

Rurik is my 29th Great Grandfather. Very interesting. The old Cajuns probably had some stories. The Cajun French language is the Norman french language from 500 years ago. There is some seafaring words in the language that came from the Norse. There is other similar ways also in customs. The way they built there houses and fences.

Private User
1/5/2019 at 8:45 AM
Private User
1/5/2019 at 8:59 AM

This Frosti Karasson was my 38th Great Grandfather, if he was real.

1/5/2019 at 4:46 PM

Even if he was real there will be some very dubious links between the modern era and 38 generations back so I wouldn't get too excited about it.

Similarly with Rurik, his "son" Igor must have had a father so Rurik in that sense is real but whether Igor's father was really named Rurik and whether any of the legends that now exist about Rurik are true and based on that man is entirely impossible to prove.

English also has lots of words that come from Norse.

1/5/2019 at 5:00 PM

Valerie Ohle

myth / noun / a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining a natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

Just because something is a myth does not mean it is not true.

"Why would the Kvenland stories be any less true than any story in the Bible, Torah or Quoran? " That's a huge leap, many of the stories in the Bible are recycled from much earlier (written down) stories from different cultures. If you actually read some scholarly articles you might be amazed by how big the box is.
The issue is not that the stories of Kvenland are not true the problem is that the stories contradict each other and are full of gaps and guesses and assumptions. Archaeology and DNA studies and ethnographic studies and linguistics can offer fascinating insights but Geni is a genealogical website, x is the parent of Y, Y is the parent of Z and so on all the way to you and me. The additional requirement is that being a collaborative site there needs to be a basis of reliable evidence for each link in the chain.

1/5/2019 at 5:26 PM

Ummm, Alex? I'm a pastor and a student of several theologians, Bible scholars, etc. I'm not, however, a Bible literalist. My point was that we non-experts sitting here working on our personal family trees are quick to condemn the oral traditions of other groups while brandishing the oral traditions of Christianity as literal and that, in my view, all oral traditions should be honored and respected. My native ancestors said our people come from the Pleiades. If I deny that oral tradition because science, because lack of documentation, because lack of reliable evidence, then I am denying my ancestors. My goal was to assure Saga that there was someone who understood where she was coming from. ;)

1/5/2019 at 6:05 PM

My apologies then, i read your earlier post as if "the bible is true and is based on oral tradition so why can't other oral traditions be true" if that was not your meaning then my response becomes irrelevant.

I admit I had to Google the Pleiades, you seem to be saying that despite all the evidence to the contrary you cannot say you are not an ET because that would be disrespectful to the beliefs of your dead ancestors. That would I think be projecting your opinion and might not reflect your ancestors attitudes at all if they were living today. My ancestors believed all sorts of superstitious rubbish over the millennia because that was the best they knew, i like to think that they would want me to accept the best possible explanation i myself can understand without worrying about what they believed.

It may not be obvious sometimes but there is a lot of time and effort put into these early portions of the tree and trying to align them with the best available knowledge but it is also a part of the tree which is ridiculously quick to degrade because of the efforts of novices to align the tree to which ever random website they are reading on the day.

Private User
1/5/2019 at 9:43 PM

interesting... "the Ancient Giant", King of Kvenland - is my 43rd great grandfather!
https://www.geni.com/path/Nadia-Victoria-Gerson-Jakusiewicz+is+rela...

Private User
1/5/2019 at 9:47 PM

and Rurik - is my 30th great grandfather! I was born - in Ukraine.
https://www.geni.com/path/Nadia-Victoria-Gerson-Jakusiewicz+is+rela...

1/6/2019 at 6:56 AM

Nadia Victoria Gerson (Jakusiewicz) you are my 24th cousin once removed. Hello Cousin.

1/6/2019 at 3:12 PM

Nadia, you are my 25th cousin, through a princess (on my side) and king of Hungary (on your side--sister and brother).

2/15/2020 at 11:37 PM

King of Kvenland, my 44th great grandfather

2/16/2020 at 5:33 AM

Between these two books they have every generation going back from Edward I to Rurik. We have both books at our library in Dallas, Texas. They are Royalty for Commoners and Ancestors of Certain colonist who came over here Before 1700. Royalty for Commoners have information on several of the rulers of the world before 1300.

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