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Francois Joseph Savoie SOLVED

Started by Joseph Bolton on Saturday, September 15, 2018
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Showing 1981-2010 of 2234 posts

SAVOIE, Francois m 1651 Catherine LEJEUNE
(GFAN 85608)
[TRI0512]
MIN 13 25 13 11 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 28 17 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-17-18 10 11 19-23 16 14 18 16 37-40 11 12 12 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 36 15 9 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 12 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 19 14 24 18 11 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11
MAX 13 25 13 11 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15-16-17-18 10 11 19-23 16 14 18 17 37-40 11 12 12 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 36 15 9 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 12 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 19 14 24 18 11 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11
MODE 13 25 13 11 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-17-18 10 11 19-23 16 14 18 17 37-40 11 12 12 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 36 15 9 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 12 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 19 14 24 18 11 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11
49341 Francois Savoie, ca 1610 France R-M269 13 25 13 11 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15-15-17-18 10 11 19-23 16 14 18 17 37-40 11 12
397890 François Savoie, 1621-1678, France France R-Z367 13 25 13 11 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9-10 11 11 25 15 19 30 15-16-17-18 10 11 19-23 16 14 18 17 37-40 11 12 12 9 15-16 8 10 10 8 10 9 12 23-23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 14 12 11 13 11 11 12 12 36 15 9 16 12 26 26 19 12 11 12 12 10 9 12 12 10 11 11 30 12 13 24 13 10 10 21 15 19 14 24 18 11 15 24 12 23 18 10 14 17 9 12 11

PTID:6000000178679731825:6000000173616890340 - I explained this, let me try again.

Dan Savoie is a long term member of Geni (2014), however, he has not logged in since February 2021. He did an FT DNA test (Y, mt, and at) and linked it to his geni profile, I don’t know when. As a curator I can see those values.

Dan Savoie never completed his geni tree, presumably, he keeps it elsewhere. So through research - it’s pretty transparent on this discussion, and now in Geni profiles - we created profiles for his lineage on Geni, and linked it to the existing profiles.

It’s great news, because he’s in the 4th cousin range of Joe Bolton’s family, which means we have a widely accepted at DNA scenario to explore.

Mary - you can choose to not believe me when I copied the results from his tree to his father, but any curator can see it also, so feel free to ask them. And by all means, send him a note through his profile - however, I wouldn’t expect an instant answer.

Dan Savoie

I’ll continue to add more sources to his father’s profile.

I used https://app.gedmatch.com/OneToMany1TierBetaNew.php for kit A744175 at default values. Joe’s kits immediately visible, no Haplogroup listed.

There are 83 profiles on geni whose autosomal DNA matches Dan Savoie.

https://www.geni.com/list/dna_matches?focus_id=6000000017922857138&group=at_dna_matches

I don’t know what you mean by Francois b 1610, sounds like a typo. Where do you see it?

Mary, post a screenshot then where you see Joe Bolton’s uncles as E M35.

The profile of my grandfather Roland Frederick Savoie is now public. I also added as a public profile his sister Aunt Rita, who first told me of the Savoie Oral tradition Rita Savoie

I also added their photos as well as the photos of Roland Savoie's father and grandfather

Oh wow - Joe Bolton’s ancestor in the 1956 directory for Pawtucket: Roland F Savoie (Claire J) tool maker, a few lines down from Donat Louis Savoie. 4th cousins indeed!

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000182710488134

Has this book already been shown? I can't read it. If so... sorry for repeating it. Page 23...

https://books.google.com/books?id=knafcCa154EC&lpg=PA22&ots...

There’s no 1610 or discussion of ancestry in this descendants book that I can see.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000182710521166

Moi, Je Suis de Bouctouche: Les Racines Bien Ancrées
By Donald J. Savoie. Page 23.

< [https://books.google.com/books?id=knafcCa154EC&amp;lpg=PA22&amp;dq=... GoogleBooks] >

Mon ancetre Francois Savoie, premier Savoie venu en Arcadie, arriva a Port-Royal en 1643 en provence de Loudon, une localitie de l’ouest de la France situee environ a mi-chemin entre Paris et Bordeaux (8).

——

My ancestor Francois Savoie, the first Savoy to come to Arcadia, arrived in Port-Royal in 1643 in Provence from Loudon, a locality in the west of France located approximately halfway between Paris and Bordeaux (8).

Here’s Daniel Savoie on ancestry.com

https://www.ancestry.com/account/profile/002dd784-0002-0000-0000-00...

And his tree https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/85918547/family/familyvie...

Tell him he’s got cousins to match DNA.

What contradictions do you think you are seeing? Can you link?

Donat’s tree on geni is well sourced, including obituary. It is unlikely I got the tree wrong on Geni - it matches Daniel ancestry tree and also the existing geni tree. So please advise.

See also Wikitree’s summary of DNA research for Francois:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Savoie-9

DNA Research

According to Family Tree DNA's French Heritage DNA project, two descendants have taken a yDNA test with resulting haplogroup being R-M269 (the most common European group) and one with R-Z367. These can be found in the YDNA portion of the site, on page 3. the Acadian yDNA project from Family Tree DNA shows the family to be R1B with both entries R-M269.[14]

14. Estes, Roberta and Marie Rundquist. Acadian and Amerindian Ancestry DNA Project - Y-DNA Classic Chart. Acadian and Amerindian Ancestry DNA Project. Y-DNA Results, Accessed 12/5/2021.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/AcadianAmerIndian?iframe=yresults

Haplogroup R1b - Savoie Surname Subgroup (Legacy: Acadia) R-M269

740950

840149

I’ll see if those kits are in Gedmatch.

Keep clicking the parent branch link from here

https://haplogroup.org/ystory/r-z367/

You will see that R Z367 is a refinement of the enormous R M269 tree.

We don’t actually have a birth date for Francois Savoie who came to Acadia in 1643. Most genealogies seem to place him around 1620, but closely this older fellow with a less advanced test (R M269) submitted his pedigree with Francois born about 1610. Pedigrees can be whatever ancestor they put down, of course. That’s why the spreadsheets sort by matching SNPs and then group.

Unknown Profile

I do find this stuff confusing but let me try to take a stab at an explanation:

On Francogene, they explain Francois Savoie's haplogroup as: "Haplogroup from SNP : R1b-Z367 (R-M269→P312→ZZ11→U152→L2→Z367)"

In the French Heritage DNA project list, you can see the two Savoie testers: kit# 49341 that displays haplogroup R-M269 in red letters, and kit# 397890 that displays haplogroup R-Z367 in green letters. At the top it explains: "haplogroups in green are confirmed by SNP testing. Haplogroups in red are predicted." This means that Family Tree DNA looked at the STR patterns of kit# 49341 and predicted he belongs to haplogroup R-M269. The other test taker either paid for additional SNP testing or did a Big-Y DNA test, and so knows a more specific haplogroup.

At Yfull, there is a list of a whole bunch of different haplogroups farther down from M269 in the Y chromosome phylogenetic tree: https://www.yfull.com/arch-4.10/tree/R-M269/. You can use ctrl+F to find R-Z367 listed in the tree.

Or see the big spreadsheet from isogg: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n9MBaZWKBWUx2DN9aEN0CLCDmtn....
(In the spreadsheet, M269 starts in row 818, and everything between row 818 and row 1847 farther down from M269 in the Y chromosome phylogenetic tree. Z367 is found on row 1163.)

So the test takers do not have different haplogroups, one haplogroup is just more specific than the other. You can tell that the two test-takers are a Y-DNA match because they match on the first 12 markers (and more). (The markers are shown by the numbers in the columns)

I believe the information in the "paternal ancestor name" field is self-reported. So the estimated birth date of 1610 for Francois Savoie was likely either a typo or simply an error from that user.

Mary, in other words, there is no real discrepancy, it’s just what level of test was taken. In essence, for Y DNA, the submitted pedigree can be ignored altogether, it’s just a labeling convenience.

Dan Savoie took a Y 111 (Big Y) test, the most advanced on the market. You can take his results to the bank as current accurate nomenclature. Take a look AncestryTree and Geni tree.

Private User - yes, we’re saying the same thing. It’s annoying the way they name currently, not intuitive at all.

If I follow correctly, we now have 4-5 Y DNA Savoie test kits identified (from Family Tree DNA? Is that where the kit numbers are from?) with R M269 > R Z367 Haplogroups tested or predicted.

740950
840149
49341
397890
Dan Savoie (I don’t know kit #, and it’s possible he’s one of those reported on spreadsheet).

We don’t know Y DNA for Joseph Bolton’s uncles, however we have a very good predicted 4th cousin something paper trail, and a possibility of matching at DNA.

I have been randomly looking at the geni trees for Dan Savoie’s at dna matches on Geni, and so far, nothing familiar, and no Savoies.

PTID:6000000178679731825:6000000173616890340 - why?

The project Valerie is quoting from mentions Denis Beauregard, the other mentions Roberta Estes. They agree with each other and with the uploaded test on Geni.

Mary,
The French Heritage project did not choose to display their results a certain way, that is the way information is displayed on every Y-DNA project page at FamilyTreeDNA.

Kit # 49341 is also found in the Acadian Heritage DNA project: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/acadian-heritage/dna-results

And Kit # 397890 is also found in the Quebec yDNA project:
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/quebecydna/dna-results
and in the (very large) R1b project:
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r-1b/about/background

I wonder if Dan Savoie is the same person as kit 397890?

What about the Y-DNA project do you think is not being conducted accurately? Why do you say they have bias?

Erica, yes any kit numbers would be from FamilyTreeDNA. It is the only place I'm aware of that currently offers Y-DNA matching.

PTID:6000000178679731825:6000000173616890340 - again, this has nothing to do with the Y DNA project administrators. It is the standard format for FT DNA projects. Lineage is outside the project scope. Only the marker values signify.

We can point you to family tree DNA methods etc if you like, I take it this is a learning curve for you.

Mary, let’s put it like this. Do you accept Denis Beauregard and Roberta Estes as two highly respected and experienced genetic genealogists? Do you need one or more of them to walk you through their project reporting?

Family tree DNA is well respected. More to the point - it has market penetration. So If you’re comparing tests, It helps to understand what they’re doing.

I like trees, and am now proud of the Geni Savoie tree with its sources “and” DNA test results. Many thanks to those who contribute!

The French Heritage group did fortunately publicize enough information to show that the two test-takers descend from Germain's sons Francois and Charles (http://www.francogene.com/triangulation/TRI0512.php). I guess it is the general policy of these Y-DNA groups to not give out genealogy or contact information on their members, if that is what the Italy project also told you. It is sad for the rest of us who want to check the paper trail of their lineages. But I guess if the coordinators do not have permission from their members to share more info then they won't. Like with autosomal matching on Ancestry or 23andMe, Y-DNA matches to these members would be able to see additional information like their name and a family tree that they've shared. But the general public can't see that info.

If the test-takers join Geni or WikiTree we can then have an opportunity to check their paper trails ourselves.

Erica, thanks for your work adding Dan's line to Geni

Valerie is correct. If you join a project, you are guaranteed anonymity, admins “may not” give out info. Mary, you are not ready to do “an independent Y DNA project.” Anyway, You have your own project going, which is more than enough to learn on.

Geni, Wikitree and Familysearch have the transparency you are looking for, and truthfully, the Ancestry trees for the Acadian Savoie family are good also - because FC genealogy is very good. So you’re in a very good position for the America’s, and you don’t need the DNA projects for pedigrees. You need them for the science, which they do in a well developed methodology over many years.

You got in trouble over submitted Gedcom pedigrees. Stick with checking clues on the collaborative trees.

If you go to the source tab for Donat, you will see his obituary, submitted by his son Daniel Savoie. That should show well enough that the tree and DNA affiliations are best we know.

Mary, asking for information about project members, of course you’ll get no info. They cannot, and also, they know not. All they have is the kit info and whatever the submitter put down as most distant ancestor.

Mary & Joseph & anyone else - here’s how to convert ancestry DNA to FT DNA. From there you can link FT DNA to Geni (free). And then you too will have autosomal matches to explore on Geni.

Transferring DNA Tests To Family Tree DNA – FTDNA
Go to www.ftdna.com. ...
Fill out the form. ...
Choose the raw file you downloaded from Ancestry, MyHeritage, etc. ...
Wait. ...
Once your results have been processed, decide whether to pay a modest, one-time fee to gain full access to the FTDNA suite of tools.

FTDNA Transfer - Your DNA Guide

https://www.yourdnaguide.com/transfer-to-ftdna

What is your goal?

Showing 1981-2010 of 2234 posts

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