Greetings to all,
Debra, can we know, just by curiosity what is your official and clear conclusion about this spelling matter ? For you, Francois was the son of Thomasso or my english level is so bad than I losed your points ?
You should know that I am French and that my English is better for understanding orally than for writing. I am using a fairly basic translator here.
I come first in peace, in search of the truth. I have absolutely nothing against Mr Bolton and all the others who claim to have the truth.
I also come to prove to you before exposing my more in-depth remarks my double ancestry to François.
(Way 1)
François Savoie / Catherine LeJeune
Catherine Savoie / François Levron
(married in 1676)
Isabelle Levron /
Michel Picote
(married in 1705)
Michel Picote /
Anne Blain
(married in 1731)
Marguerite Picote /
Jean-Baptiste Guildry
(married before 1753)
Elisabeth Guildry /
Antoine Belec
(married in 1773)
Antoine Bélec /
Marie Vincent
(Married in 1801)
Joseph Bélec / Theotist
Morisseau
(Married in 1835)
Joseph Bélec /
Marie Zoé Bertrand
(Married in 1861)
Eugènie Bélec /
Philippe Albert Gervais
(Married in 1890)
Eugènie Gervais
(My great-grandmother)
************************
(Way 2 )
François Savoie /
Catherine Lejeune
Andrée Savoie
& Jean Prégent
Anne Prégent
& François Pitre
Agnès Pitre
& Jean-Baptiste Boudreau
François Boudreau
& Marie-Sophie Martel
Germain Boudreau
& Marie Pilote
Joseph Boudreau 1808-1885
&1827 Félicité Bélanger 1802-1884
Louise Boudreau 1840-1915
&1859 Onesime Girard 1836-1902
Joseph Arthur Girard 1867-1956
&1890 Marie Alexina Pilote 1871-1952
Joseph Arthur Delphis Girard 1895-ca 1940
&1917 Corina Lamoureux 1894-1990
Delphis was my great grand father.
****************************
GREAT PARANTHESIS
You should know that I worked on already pre-existing work and genealogical paths less work to establish links between noble families of France and pioneer-Canadian families.
I also showed you my two ancestry not to feel "cool" but to prove to you that I too would like to be able to declare that I am descended from Henri II of France, husband of Catherine de Medici ...
However, unlike others, I am not so convinced of this and I really wish my opinion did not shock you but that you just read me impartially.
This month of May, this year for example, I was finally able to prove with a lot of effort and sufficient documentation that the Boileau / Boyleau sisters (Marie Boileau and Marguerite Boileau) were indeed descended from Henry III of England. and Éléonore de Provence. I was able to determine, thanks to his signature and the help of Stéphane Delanoue, that Jeanne de Portebise was indeed the daughter of Pierre and Marguerite d'Argenson. Many assumed it but without providing any documentation. Well now it's done!
Same fight with Pierre Le Gardeur de Repentigny, much assumed that he descended from Geoffroy des Vaux and Marguerite d'Avaugour and not of Geoffroy's first wife: Marguerite LeRiche.
Which was not too shocking however no one presented reliable sources and documentation of yesteryear yet.
I was able, with the help of Etchemins, to find a succession lawsuit concerning the affairs of Geoffroy des Vaux and to discover beyond any doubt that Marguerite d'Avaugour was indeed the ancestor of Pierre Le Gardeur de Repentigny.
Then, again this month, I discovered this same allusion in the French Securities Cabinet. This brings down Pierre Legardeur de Repentigny from Henry II of England and Louis VII of France.
However, Denis Beauregard does not yet dare to add Marie Boileau and Marguerite Boileau even with supporting documentation. Which is getting strange.
So I have, during the last 4 years and suddenly 40 hours a week without you detailing all my other work, work on the French nobility like a monster. Some genealogists had already discovered ancestries but I have studied them a lot:
Anne Leneuf du Hérisson / Catherine de Baillon / Anne Couvent / Pierre Le Gardeur de Repentigny / D'Ailleboust / Boyleau - Boileau / de Bragelonne - Bragelongne / Otis / ect ...
Now if we look at the whole, the big winners from Quebec in terms of Close Royalty in their ancestry are:
1 - Anne Convent
(Henry III of England and Louis VIII of France)
2 - Marie Boileau / Marguerite Boileau
(Henry III of England)
3 - Catherine de Baillon
(Philippe II Augustus of France)
They are kings who reigned in the 13th century, around 1250.
END OF PARANTHESIS
François Savoie would therefore be, according to your hypotheses and without sufficient documentation, the big winner of the royal ancestry having Henri II of France, a king of the 16th century.
Having also studied the nobility a lot, I have never seen a bastard child, either of princes, dukes or kings, having no title and becoming a plowman ... Never ...
The worst case scenario for them was to become clergymen.
Many illegitimate children of high nobility were either Dukes, Counts or Viscounts and still high-ranking military personnel.
DNA appears to tell two different stories at the moment. Difficult to take anything into account with irrefutable credibility. I would like to point out that Joseph Bolton's discussion with Mr Deburque was very interesting, and even if we remain impartial and logical, they still brought some interesting material. But without real proof. As a descendant of François, or simply curious about genealogy, it is important to discuss all together and to remain polite, respectful and courteous. But the most important thing is to investigate this mystery TOGETHER. I tell you, there is no sufficient documentation even if we add the calligraphy of "Scavois" which allows to determine anything quite conclusive for the moment. For my part, I find damage the lack of archives on the Acadian side such as a marriage contract between François and Catherine, a marriage certificate or any other document clearly mentioning its origin. What we have for the moment: (Elements that tilt in favor of noble ancestry): * 1 - An oral tradition 1.1 Without more information but to be taken into account. This item cannot be accepted as proof). * 2 - The DNA case of Bill Deburque / Conversation with Joseph Bolton. 2.1 DNA with enough comparisons is indeed irrefutable proof. However, in this specific case, several comparisons are missing and it is impossible to establish a precise link by linking documentations and DNA. We speak of common Italian, French, Spanish ancestors etc. This sharing of ancestors throughout Europe is not a rare case in genealogy, especially if Bill Deburque has found himself a noble European ancestor. * 3 - The name Savoie (Scavois) 3.1 Uncommon name in the families of roturiers - French laborers. For me this is point number 3 here is the most interesting and the one that digs into the mystery.
(Items that do not tilt in favor of noble ancestry):
1 - No documentation being able to know the origin of François, nor of ties of kinship with other Savoys.
1.1 No marriage contract, no marriage certificate, no contract of engagement ect ...
2 - A bastard of a man of very high nobility did not become a plowman. He generally inherited small functions, he became a high military officer or he saw himself recognized and was offered titles of nobility such as: Duke, Marquis, Count or Viscount ...
3 - There is no "of" before the name Savoie - Scavois, which proves that if he is really the son of Thomasso, he is not the son of his wife Bourbon.
4 - An R1B DNA group ... different from a European descendant of Prince Carignan. It is possible to find the name of this tested individual because I have already had access to the information in the past.
So either way, I wouldn't jump to any conclusion. The conclusion on paper, for the moment, François Savoie is the son of an unknown father and mother.
Nothing prevents us from bringing new elements in the respect and from debating on the subject. But please, you should change the title "SOlVED" to "DISCUSSION"
cordially
Jonathan Chénier-Daoust