Rurik, Founder of the Rurikid Dynasty - Rurik probably had Finnish roots

У нас тема обсуждение - Рюрик и его родственник, а не переселение германских и финских племен в долину Сканди после Ледникового периода!

We have a topic of discussion-Rurik and his relative, and not the resettlement of German and Finnish tribes in the valley of Scandi after the Ice age!

Alexander - the topic is expanding, due to the fact that the Nordic influence for many thousand years in what is Finland today, and all the way to Ladoga has a validity in the discussion.
I am back to my assumption that Rurik, who was Finnish on his fathers or grandfathers side. might have been Svionic/Nordic/Germanic on his mothers and grandmothers side for many generations and that he came from Svealand (Roslagen area in Uppland). This was no big deal for him to move on to lake Ilmen and establish his dynasty starting from there.

Roslagen?))) Когда это название появилось? Кто называл так этот регион Швеции?

В 1296 году территория нынешнего Рослагена впервые упоминается под названием Rodhin (в Упландском областном законе), а название Rodzlagen впервые появляется в 1493 году и далее в 1511, 1526, 1528 годах

В начале 11 века в Новгороде дети учились в школах, а грамотные женщины писали письма на русском (славянском) языке!

At the beginning of the 11th century in Novgorod, children studied in schools, and literate women wrote letters in Russian (Slavic) language!

Yes Alexander - exactly Roslagen/Roden
That is from where the word "Rus/Ros" comes from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roslagen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Rus%27,_Russia_and_Ruthenia
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8C_(%D0%BD%D0%B...

"One of the earliest written sources mentioning the people called Rus' (as Rhos) dates to 839 in the Annales Bertiniani. This chronicle identifies them as a Germanic tribe called the Swedes. According to the Kievan Rus' Primary Chronicle, compiled in about 1113, the Rus' were a group of Varangians, Norsemen who had relocated somewhere from the Baltic region (literally "from beyond the sea"), first to Northeastern Europe, then to the south where they created the medieval Kievan state"

Google translate (I don´t know Russian):

Один из ранних письменных источников, упоминающих людей, называемых Русь (как Rhos), относится к 839 году в Annales Bertiniani. Эта хроника идентифицирует их как германское племя, называемое шведами. Согласно «Первой хронике» Киевской Руси, составленной примерно в 1113 году, Русь была группой варягов, норвежцев, которые где-то переехали из Балтийского региона

Nordic languages are a subset of the Germanic languages and originate from the ancient language, the language that began to speak in the Nordic region from about the 700's AD. and as around the 1000's were divided into the more distinctive regional dialects of Swedish, ancient Danish, ancient Gothic, ancient Norwegian and ancient Icelandic.
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordiska_spr%C3%A5k

The common ancestor of the Germanic languages is ur-Germanic, probably speaking during the early Northern Iron Age. Early Germanic dialects come into history together with the Germanic people who settled in Northern Europe along the Romanian border from the 100's AD.
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanska_spr%C3%A5k

Proto-Germanic language
The link also includes the geographical coverage [map] in 500 BC (Nordic Bronze age)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic_language

Какие германские племена? О чем Вы? Олег действительно был Викингом (Шведом)! Олег это родной брат жены Рюрика! С Олегом была небольшая группа Викингов (Шведов) с которой он пришел в Киев! Основное войско он собрал на месте! Корабли Викингов (Шведов) не могли быть использованы в походах Олега по рекам!
What are the Germanic tribes? What do You mean? Oleg really was a Viking (Swede)! Oleg is the brother of the wife of Rurik! With Oleg there was a small group of Vikings (Swedes) with which he came to Kiev! The main army he gathered on the spot! Viking ships (Swedes) could not be used in the campaigns of Oleg on the rivers!

Uralian is divided into two clearly defined main branches, which should have been divorced at least 6,000 years ago:

The larger western branch of Finnish-Ugrian language, which today consists of a total of 24 languages with over 99 percent of the languages of ural language.
The smaller branch of Samojetic languages, located north and east of Ural, with only four living languages now spoken by only 30,000 individuals in large, densely populated areas of northern Siberia.
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uraliska_spr%C3%A5k

Олег был регентом при малолетнем сыне Рюрика Игоре после его смерти! Олег все делал от имени малолетнего Игоря! Вопрос! Почему Олег никогда не возвращался на родину в Швецию?

Oleg was a Regent under the young son of Rurik Igor after his death! Oleg did everything on behalf of the juvenile Igor! Question! Why Oleg never returned home to Sweden?

Germanic tribes are the original Tribes for all Germanic-speaking nations (Germans, Swedes, Danes, Norwegians). The Germanic tribes divided and developed into these different people and evolving languages.

The Viking ships were small and very suitable for Rivers and shallow coastal areas, and also easy to carry overland from river to river.

http://bloggen.halm.se/etikett/vikingar/

All towns in the Swedish coastal area were reached on very tiny rivers. The ships were NOT giant. They were small, but sometimes many.
No problem with rivers in Russia and Ukraine.

Alexander:
The Swedish, Norwegians, Danish, ie the Scandinavian tribes originate from the Germans.
The Finnish people belong to the Finnish-Ural tribes.
The Russians belong to the Slavic people.
Today we may be a great mix, but it has not always been so in historical times.
Therefore, we are now wondering about Rurik's roots.

good night guys!

Maybe because "Home" was everywhere from Sweden down to Kiev.
With an expanding population Uppsala was home, Ladoga was home, lake Ilmen was home and so was Kiev. Wherever they went they met people who were 50% Nordic, 25% Nordic, 10% Nordic or whatever. Mixing with marriages and families - near cousins, distant cousins. Slavic relatives, Finnish relatives, Vepsian relatives, Kievan Rus relatives - near and far. "Home" was all these places.

Язык был разным! Олег действовал от имени русскоязычного племянника Игоря, так как это помогло собрать огромное войско из местного славянского населения!

Language was different! Oleg acted on behalf of the Russian-speaking nephew Igor, as it helped to collect a huge army of the local Slavic population!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_ships

http://slavyanskaya-kultura.ru/slavic/history/russkaja-boevaja-ladj...

Нестор: "Те варяги назывались русью, как другие называются шведы, а иные норманны и англы, а еще иные готландцы."
Nestor: "Those Vikings were called Rus, others are called Swedes, and others Normans and angles, and still others gotlanders."

И повелел Олег своим воинам сделать колеса и поставить на колеса корабли. И когда подул попутный ветер, подняли они в поле паруса и пошли к городу. Греки же, увидев это, испугались и сказали, послав к Олегу: „Не губи города, дадим тебе дань, какую захочешь». И остановил Олег воинов, и вынесли ему пищу и вино, но не принял его, так как было оно отравлено. И испугались греки, и сказали: „Это не Олег, но святой Дмитрий, посланный на нас Богом». И приказал Олег дать дани на 2000 кораблей: по 12 гривен на человека, а было в каждом корабле по 40 мужей.
And Oleg commanded his soldiers to make wheels and put ships on wheels. And when the fair wind blew, they lifted the sails in the field and went to the city. The Greeks, having seen it, were frightened and told, having sent to Oleg: "don't destroy the city, we will give you a tribute what you want". And stopped Oleg soldiers, and carried him food and wine, but has not accepted it, as it has been poisoned. And the Greeks were afraid, and said, "this is not Oleg, but St. Dmitry, sent to us by God." Oleg also has ordered to give tribute 2000 vehicles: on 12 grivnas on the person, and it was every ship for 40 men.

http://knigosite.org/library/read/77814

The ships you haved linked to Alexander, are those they used for England. Not the smaller carriers for Rivers in for instance Russia and Ukraine.

https://bildnytt.se/just-nu-paverkade-personer-har-stulit-vikingaba...
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85terskapande_av_vikingatiden

Space for 6-10 persons in each. Not 100.
Easy to carry over land. Easy to bring.

Выступил в поход Олег, взяв с собою много воинов: варягов, чудь, словен, мерю, весь, кривичей, и пришел к Смоленску с кривичами, и принял власть в городе, и посадил в нем своего мужа. Оттуда отправился вниз, и взял Любеч, и также посадил мужа своего. И пришли к горам Киевским, и узнал Олег, что княжат тут Аскольд и Дир. Спрятал он одних воинов в ладьях, а других оставил позади, и сам приступил, неся младенца Игоря. И подплыл к Угорской горе, спрятав своих воинов, и послал к Аскольду и Диру, говоря им, что-де „мы купцы, идем в Греки от Олега и княжича Игоря. Придите к нам, к родичам своим». Когда же Аскольд и Дир пришли, выскочили все остальные из ладей, и сказал Олег Аскольду и Диру: „Не князья вы и не княжеского рода, но я княжеского рода», и показал Игоря: „А это сын Рюрика». И убили Аскольда и Дира,
Oleg made a campaign, taking with him a lot of soldiers: Varangians, Chud, Slovenes, Meru, all, krivichy, and came to Smolensk with krivichy, and took power in the city, and put him in her husband. From there he went down, and took Lyubech, and also planted his husband. And they came to the mountains of Kiev, and Oleg learned that there is a Prince Askold and dir. He hid some soldiers in the rooks, and left others behind, and he began, carrying the baby Igor. And swam to the Ugric mountain, hiding his soldiers, and sent to Askold and Dir, telling them that de "we are merchants, go to the Greeks from Oleg and Prince Igor. Come to us, to your kinsmen." When Askold and dir came, all the others jumped out of the rooks, and said to Oleg Askold and Dir: "you are not princes and not princely family, but I princely family", and showed Igor: "And this is the son of Rurik." And killed Askold and dir.,

Russia and Ukraine.? В 9 веке?

http://knigosite.org/library/read/77814

Пошел Олег на греков, оставив Игоря в Киеве; взял же с собою множество варягов, и славян, и чуди, и кривичей, и мерю, и древлян, и радимичей, и полян, и северян, и вятичей, и хорватов, и дулебов, и тиверцев, известных как толмачи: этих всех называли греки „Великая Скифь». И с этими всеми пошел Олег на конях и в кораблях; и было кораблей числом 2000. И пришел к Царьграду: греки же замкнули Суд, а город затворили. И вышел Олег на берег, и начал воевать, и много убийств сотворил в окрестностях города грекам, и разбили множество палат, и церкви пожгли. А тех, кого захватили в плен, одних иссекли, других замучили, иных же застрелили, а некоторых побросали в море, и много другого зла сделали русские грекам, как обычно делают враги.
Oleg went to the Greeks, having left Igor in Kiev; and he took with him a multitude of Varangians, the Slavs and the Chud, and Krivichi, and meyrueis, drevlyan and Radimichi and Polyan, and northerners and Vyatichi, Croats, dulebs, and tivertsy known as interpreters: all these were called by the Greeks "Great SKIF". And with these all went to Oleg on horses and in vehicles; also was the ships number 2000. And has come to Tsargrad: Greeks have closed Court, and the city gate. And Oleg came to the shore, and began to fight, and many murders created in the vicinity of the city to the Greeks, and broke many chambers, and churches burned. And those who were captured, some were excised, others were tortured, others were shot, and some were thrown into the sea, and many other evil was done by the Russians to the Greeks, as enemies usually do.

Викинги (Шведы) по 500 кораблей с трудом собирали!

The Vikings (Swedes) in 500 ships with difficulty collected!

В 9 веке

What is the geography and rivers of Russia and Ukraine (today) - then Kievan Rus

http://booksonline.com.ua/view.php?book=99910
http://booksonline.com.ua/view.php?book=99913
http://booksonline.com.ua/view.php?book=99917
http://booksonline.com.ua/view.php?book=99920
http://booksonline.com.ua/view.php?book=99928

Amir, the WP site you linked quoting 'blue-eyed Norwegians' living in Finland before the Finns and quoting Tactitus is poorly written - the aforesaid claims should ring warning bells! - Tacitus is clearly referring to a hunter-gather group, there is no evidence he refers to Finns. The writer also makes the common error of equating language with ethnicity. You can readily see why this is to err. For example, just because someone speaks, say, English, it doesn't mean they are. And what's with the blue-eyed nonsense. Germans have more melanin than Finns. So three major logical errors already. There are scientists who believe that actually, Finns are the proto-Europeans.

I myself have a lot Baltic German and Swedish ancestry. However, my DNA(as per 23+me) is predominantly Finnish. This is likely due to the fact the Baltic German and Swedish great grandparents were nobility and thus kept good records of their lineages. About 5% is 'East European', which I presume comes from Russia, having a 6th grandfather born in Vyborg (Viipuri). I'd love to trace his parents.

Alexander: I love those glass beads. I really must visit the Ladoga Museum. Two of my uncles died in the Ladoga Isthmus during the war, so I'd love to see where they fell. You note that before USSR annexed Karelia all of the place names in that region are clearly Finnish origin.

At the Viking Exhibition at the British Museum a couple of years ago, the gift shop was selling some beautiful glass bead necklaces based on Viking design. Alas, they were priced at >£400. Glass was very valuable in the Iron Age. Cheap now, but still can be very pretty.