Rurik, Founder of the Rurikid Dynasty - Rurik probably had Finnish roots

Самым значительным открытием последнего времени является то, что потомки Рюрика - Y-DNA N1c1-Y10931! О том, что Рюрик финн, Татищев писал в 18 веке!
The most significant discovery of recent times is that the descendants of Rurik - Y-DNA N1c1-Y10931! That Finn Rurik, Tatischev wrote in the 18th century!

Dear Arya!

The population of Sweden about the the time of Rurik was approx. 350 000 persons.
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_historiska_befolkning

At maximum 1% were Sami/Sapmi (not Finnish) and inhabited an area which included forrests and mountains; there herding raindeer. In that area: no cities, no towns, no burial mounds, no advanced metal work.

The Nordic Iron age was preceded by the proto-Svionic and proto-Gothic tribes (all of them Germanic) in the Nordic Bronze age. Please see the map in this link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age

The Nordic Bronze age can be divided into two parts:
Early Bronze Age, between 1700 BC - 1100 BC, and the Late Bronze Age, 1100 BC - 550 BC.

The archeological evidence is overwhelming both for the Bronze age and for the Iron age (the latter preceeding the Viking age).

Best regards
Amir

На реке Волхов и на озере Ильмень племена финнов жили с очень древних времен!
Своих городов финны не строили! Старую Ладогу на реке Волхов в 7 веке основали Викинги (Шведы), так как их корабли не могли подняться выше по течению из-за порогов на реке Волхов! В 8 веке Старая Ладога принадлежала Ильменским Словенам. Словени пришли в регион озера Ильмень в 7 веке в количестве в два раза превышающем коренное финское население! Ильменские Словени это этнос отличающейся не только от финнов, но и от других славянских племен, известных в этом регионе ранее!
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%8F_...
Первым основанным Ильменскими Словенами городом была Русса (Стара Русса)
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%8F_...

On the Volkhov river and lake Ilmen the Finns have lived since ancient times!
Their cities the Finns are not built! The old Ladoga on the river Volkhov in the 7th century was founded by the Vikings (Swedes), as their ships could not climb upstream because of the rapids on the river Volkhov! In the 8th century Old Ladoga belonged to Ilmen Slovens. Slovenia came to the region of lake Ilmen in the 7th century in an amount twice the indigenous Finnish population! Ilmen Slavs is an ethnos different not only from the Finns, but also from other Slavic tribes known in this region before!

Археологические раскопки действительно подтверждают постоянное присутствие в этом регионе викингов (шведов), но по количеству их было очень мало! В ту пору среди местного населения бытовали выражения "уйти в варяги" или "стать варягом", Archaeological excavations really confirm the permanent presence in this region of the Vikings (Swedes), but the number of them was very small! At that time, among the local population there were expressions "go to the Varangians" or "become a Varangian", that is - to change the way of life!то есть - изменить образ жизни!

Amir, Sorry that Wikipedia not is up to date:

“At an excavation in the area around Vivungi, Sweden, archaeologists have made sensational findings. They have discovered slag from ovens that shows that iron production has taken place 2000 years ago in Norrbotten inland - completely new information, which means that the history of Norrbotten has to be rewritten. Findings of this type of furnace have been found in Finland, Karelia, but also in Bergslagen.
Residues from fish bones and other burned food waste residues from the site around the iron ovens show that there was iron production in a hunting and catching environment at this site during the early Iron Age.
-I think that a lot of our iron technology comes from the eastern side of the Baltic sea, but who these people were we do not know.”
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/norrbotten/arkeologiska-fynd-skri...
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/norrbotten/foradlades-jarn-i-lane...

2000 years ago it was Finnish Speaking people on the eastern side of the Baltic Sea.
Probably in Sweden as well.

The Finno-Ugric peoples are any of several peoples of North-West Eurasia who speak languages of the Finno-Ugric group of the Uralic language family, such as the Khanty, Mansi, Hungarians, Maris, Mordvins, Sámi, Estonians, Karelians, Finns, Udmurts and Komis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finno-Ugric_peoples

Dear Arya!
As you can see I wrote:
"..no advanced metal work.." - I didn´t mention mining.

This area - in the most Northern part of present Sweden had for sure an eastern connection and not a connection with Svealand (the land of the Sviones) and the not with the proto-Sviones (during Bronze age).

What we are discussing is if Svelaland was Finnish/Ugric or not. It was not. It was Germanic.

We are also discussing, what you claimed initially that Svealand was non-existent in time of Rurik. But it was. The Iron age was a mighty age in Svealand and so was the Bronze age. Both ages were Germanic.

Best regards
Amir

Amir:You might have skipped this part of the article?

"The findings show that steel was produced and further refined 2,000 years ago in Norrbotten."

I think it's very advanced technology .... 2000 years ago.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/norrbotten/foradlades-jarn-i-lane...

Refining "steel" 2000 years ago in northern Europe would be very advanced, almost certain they meant "iron".

Hi - it says Iron (Järn) and not Steel (Stål).

Apart from that, please see my previous comments.
Svealand remains as a proto-Svionic and Svionic major center of Germanic origins all the way through the Bronze and Iron ages.

Best regards
Amir

Господа! Вы удалились от темы обсуждения на 1000 лет и на тысячи километров!
Вернитесь в 7 - 10 века нашей эры! Найдите на карте Новгород и посмотрите местность со спутника!
Gentlemen! You have moved away from the topic of discussion for 1000 years and thousands of kilometers!
Return to the 7th - 10th century ad! Find Novgorod on the map and see the area from the satellite!

Киргизы утверждают, что их соплеменники добрались до Американского континента раньше чем Колумб и основали там две страны - Уругвай и Парагвай! Свои выводы они основывают на том, что названия этих стран созвучны со словами из языка киргизов)))
The Kyrgyz claim that their tribesmen reached the American continent before Columbus and founded two countries there-Uruguay and Paraguay! They base their conclusions on the fact that the names of these countries are in tune with the words of the Kyrgyz language)))

Amir:
And I have never claimed that there were only Finns in Sweden in historical times. I have written that there has been a large significant part of Finnish presence in the graves indicating a Finnish population in Birka, Uppland, Gamla Uppsala.
I have also written that this did not mean that there were no German tribes in the area at the same time. It was probably a mix of different people who traded in Lake Mälaren. And when there is a mix of different people, it also became battles. What are other historical stories about.

But Sweden was formed with Christianity and, as we know, no Swedish kings are buried around the Mälaren until long after Rurik's time.

Olof Skötkonung, (c. 980-1022) is considered the first ruler documented to have been accepted both by the original Swedes around Lake Mälaren and by the Geats around Lake Vättern, which were fundamental in forming the nation of Sweden.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olof_Sk%C3%B6tkonung

Alex: It is possible, however, that it is being processed can be seen as advanced.

Новгород - это на русском языке означает новый город! На других языках альтернативного названия Новгород никогда не имел!
Novgorod-this on Russian language means a new city! Novgorod has never had an alternative name in other languages!

There is one thing I absolutely do not understand.
If you took Rurik into Novgorod of the past, then according to various stories that say they would get order and peace between the different Finnish and Slavic tribes that did not agree. It's quite crazy that you would ask for help from someone who speaks Germanic language. As NO ONE understands. Neither Finnish nor Russian-speaking ?!

Dear Arya!

There has been a minor Finno/Ugric presence and that can mean Estonians too. Estonians were advanced in maritime activities and it is well known that marine battles and coastal warfare had taken place between Sviones and Estonians on both sides of the Baltic sea. The Finno Ugric presence in Birka can be due to POWs or small bands of discontent chieftains settling on the other sida - so to say. We see the same kind of mobility in both directions for hundred of years or maybe more.

There are a number of proto-Svionic chieftains and Jarls (and undocumented kings) buried in the Heartland of Svealand - Uppsala in the Mid-500s AD: see for example:

Ottarshögen in which a coin from AD 470s was found (nice place in Vendel, go there to see it, is my advice + the church and a small museum at the church too).
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottarsh%C3%B6gen

Uppsala Högar
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamla_Uppsala_fornl%C3%A4mningsomr%C3...
More than 2000 graves in the area.

And yes I know about Olof Skötkonung, Olof III "the Treasurer", king of Sweden
he is my ancestor by the way (26 Great Grandfather if Geni is correct) and as mentioned before, his daughter was married into the Rurikid dynasty. Nothing strange about that - they were Svionics/Varangians, but had settled a number of generations before in the East.

Best regards
Amir

Рюрик с детства прекрасно знал русский и финский языки! Читайте книги Татищева!
Rurik with childhood perfectly knew Russian and Finnish languages! Read books Tatishcheva!

Father Rurik is a Russian speaking Finn, mother of the Ilmen Slovene, and his wife, who bore him his only son - Swede - Princess urmanskoye! Tatishchev says that Urmania is the area in Sweden! Where Urmania? Who knows?

Amir: What I know, there is no evidence of those who are buried in the tombs you linked to. It can be anyone. sorry!

What is interesting is that you make these same people Svionics / Varangians ....?
Do you mean Svionics = Varangians or what?

So what do you have for evidence that they belong?

Alexander, There is no, nor has there been any place in Sweden called Urmania.

Alexander - no idea where Urmania is. "Ur" means something very old in Swedish.
If any of this is true (about what Tatischev says), it wouldn´t surprise me [all of this my speculation!!] if Ruriks great grandfathers were Finnish/Ugric Chieftains and maybe 2-3 generations before moved from some reason (war? trade?) to Uppland in Svealand, intermarried with Svionic ladies for a number of generations and finally you have a naturalised Svion/Svea-warrior with connections in many directions. No problem for him to appear on both sides of the Baltic and no problem for him to communicate with all people + start up the settlement at old Novogorod. This was an ambitious guy with an edge.

Some places in Sweden starting up with "Ur". I do not know how old these places are:

http://runeberg.org/svorter/sydbesk/1308.html
http://runeberg.org/svorter/sydbesk/1309.html
http://runeberg.org/svorter/sydbesk/1310.html

Amir: for me are Finnish-speaking people, that is Finnish-Uralic, all these:
http://www.macastren.fi/kuvat/kartta.jpg

However, we know that around Novgorod was Finnish Karelare.

The map shows how the Finnish-Uralic languages are spread in modern times, not how they looked in historical times, when they probably had larger areas of distribution.

Svionics that is Svear. Svear were a major part of the original Varangians. By generations down the rivers of Russia and Ukraine they mixed with Finns and Slavs. A Varangian the year 1000 was probably very much more mixed compared with a Varangian the year 850.

"Рюриково Городище" было заселено задолго до появления самого Рюрика! Там площадь поселения была 7 гектар! Археологические находки датируются 7 - 8 веками! То что сам Новгород постепенно сместился на 2 километра ниже по течению раки Волхов, обусловлено постройкой моста через реку!
"Rurik Settlement" was inhabited long before the appearance of the Rurik! There area of the settlement was 7 hectares! Archaeological finds date back to 7 - 8 centuries! The fact that Novgorod itself gradually shifted 2 kilometers downstream of the Volkhov river, due to the construction of a bridge across the river!

По исследованиям Y-DNA в этом регионе викингов (шведов) проживало менее 5%, славян проживало более 50%, финнов более 30%! До 7 века в районе озера ильмень жили преимущественно финны!
According to research Y-DNA in this region of the Vikings (Swedes) lived less than 5%, Slavs lived more than 50%, Finns more than 30%! Until the 7th century in the area of lake Ilmen lived mainly Finns!

The Burial mounds of Kings and Jarls all around Uppland (political centre of Svealand) were of course of Germanic origins. You don´t find these kind of mounds in Finnish/Ugric regions. The names unknown except by stories (Ottar etc). Later on when they could write in Runes, you find the Runstones a number of areas in present day Sweden (Svealand and Götaland) - not in Finland.

Best regards
Amir

Alexander - that doesn´t make a difference if Ruriks mother, grandmothers and great grandmothers and so forth were Svionics.

Best regards
Amir

Мама Рюрика была Ильменская Словенка, а отец был финном! Шведкой была его жена!
Mother of Rurik was the Ilmen Slovene, and his father was a Finn! Swedish was his wife!