Rurik, Founder of the Rurikid Dynasty - Rurik probably had Finnish roots

Финские дворяне, эстонские и лапландские рыцари из какого сказочного королевства?

Finnish nobles, Estonian and Lapland knights from what fairy -tale Kingdom?

During Rurik's time, most people were Gentiles, ie, non-Christians. They had many different gods. People were not under one and the same god. Christianity in much of northern Europe was forced by the Christian Crusades, several hundred years after Rurik's death. In the same way it was with the people. They did not gather in large groups / countries under one king, but most of the people during Rurik's time belonged to a tribe. People lived in different tribal communities. Probably there was a strong leader, but they were not kings. So probably there were no direct kingdoms, though many tribes had great power. Novgorod became a big city over time. The first metropolis in Europe.

The first metropolis in northern Europe.

В Новгороде совместно жили славяне, финны и шведы! Это подтверждается археологами!
Slavs, Finns, and Swedes lived together in Novgorod! This is confirmed by archaeologists!

Let us now correct the previous statement by Александр Евгеньевич Елисеев.

At first, in the Novgorod region there were only tribes of Finnish descent (the male yDNA was predominantly N-haploid). This vast area was, according to archaeologists, from the Baikal Lake region in Asia to the Baltic Sea environment (language was Finnic-Uralic). Then the Slavic-speaking population (AD 700-800) entered the area. Initially, these were together around the middle of the 800s, as Nestor's chronicle later writes. Also, there were 3 tribes of Finnish origin and 2 of Slavic languages, who would complain about being a RURIK representative. According to genetic research, this has been the N-haploid group, it is the most common - and typical haploid group - in Finnish men, with about 60%. A society called Sweden was formed
until about 900-1000 century. And it intensified as the strength of the migration of Germanic migrants spread through Småland - in the 1000's - to Uppsala, which was then a region of the Finnish-speaking population (including the men's N-group).
The Swedes were not in Novgorod when it was established in the Old Ladoga region and later moved to Novgorod (Kiev, etc.).
In the AD 800, RURIK was chosen as the Rurik, because at that time the language of the majority was still the FU language, and thus a person of Finnish origin. Now let's find out what the origin of RURIK is. now it is known that his son would be Igor. Igor's male descendants are known to have been Rurik-dynasties until about the 15th and 1590's. We know the names and families, including church books. Now, the yDNA study of these modern individuals remains to determine the genetic lineage down to Igor. Since the paternal lineage was N-group N-L550-Y4338 *, etc., we know that the genetics of the father of Father Rurik must also follow the same path. Why are we looking for Rurik's father when it doesn't matter. The origin of Rurik is genetically based. regards
Seppo Liukko 4.3.2020

Sorry, repair.:
Now it is known that his son would be Igor. Igor's male descendants are known to have been Rurik-dynasties until about the (no15th) ob. AD 850 and 1590's Novgorod, Kiev- Moscov. -We know the names and families, including church books. etc.

Новгород это славянское название города = Новый Город! С момента основания в Новгороде жили славяне, финны и шведы! По количеству славян было больше! Смотрите результаты археологических раскопок! Финнов тоже было много, а шведов значительно меньше! Русский историк Василий Татищев в 18 веке писал, что до Рюрика правителем Новгорода был славянин по имени Гостомысл. Все его сыновья погибли. Его дочери были выданы замуж за разных князей! Рюрик это сын дочери Гостомысла по имени Умила! Рюрик это внук Гостомысла! Ранее Рюрик владел Финляндией! Рюрик имел несколько жен! Жена Рюрик по имени Ефанда была шведкой и у них родился сын Игорь! Татищев занимался этой проблемой более 30 лет и про генетику ничего не знал! Какие языки знал Рюрик?

Novgorod is the Slavic name of the city = New City! Since its Foundation, Slavs, Finns and Swedes have lived in Novgorod! The number of Slavs was higher! See the results of the archaeological excavations! The Finns also had a lot, but Swedes are much less! Russian historian Vasily Tatishchev in the 18th century wrote that to Rurik as ruler of Novgorod was a Slav by the name of Gostomysl. All his sons were killed. His daughters were married to various princes! Rurik is the son of a daughter of gostomysl named Umila! Rurik is the grandson of gostomysl! Rurik previously owned by Finland! Rurik had several wives! Rurik's wife Efanda was Swedish and they had a son Igor! Tatishchev had been dealing with this problem for more than 30 years and knew nothing about genetics! What languages did Rurik know?

Old Chronicles and their information in modern times are secondary information.
However, genetics research (yDNA research) is the only thing here that can give a solution afterwards. And to make sure who is everyone's son (it will appear in the yDNA father line study).
Now, based on DNA research, one could say that
However, Tatischev was right when he said that there must be something Finnish in the RURIK family.
regards
Seppo Liukko 4.3.2020

Вот именно! Рюрика признали все этнические группы живущие в Новгороде! Скорее всего, он хорошо знал несколько языков, а именно: славянский, финский и шведский! Рюрик был культурно близок для всех! На примере Новгорода мы видим распад архаичных родоплеменных отношений! Образуется новое сообщества с едиными экономическими и политическими интересами!

That 's it! Rurik was recognized by all ethnic groups living in Novgorod! Most likely, he knew several languages well, namely: Slavic, Finnish and Swedish! Rurik was culturally close to everyone! On the example of Novgorod, we see the collapse of archaic tribal relations! A new community with common economic and political interests is being formed!

What does culture or religion mean if we seek the origin of the Ruriki based on scientific research?

Культура это быт! Археологи изучают разные культурные слои! Жилища, крепостные сооружения, оружие, ремесла, земледелие, предметы быта, пища и многое другое. Рядом с Новгородом было капище славянских языческих богов! Вместе с тем, есть находки с изображением скандинавского бога Тора! В Новгороде и его окрестностях археологические раскопки ведутся очень давно на огромной площади!

Culture is a way of life! Archaeologists study different cultural layers! Dwellings, fortifications, weapons, crafts, agriculture, household items, food, and much more. Near Novgorod there was a temple of Slavic pagan gods! At the same time , there are finds with the image of the Scandinavian God Thor! In Novgorod and its surroundings, archaeological excavations have been conducted for a long time on a huge area!

Ильменские Словени были особым славянским народом, они не принадлежали к ранее известным в этом славянским племенам, основавшим такие города, как Псков и Киев! Именно они в 8 веке начали с Старой Ладоге огромное производство цветных стеклянных бус, которые в то время были товаром повышенного спроса!
Каждая финская модница того времени мечтала о цветных стеклянных бусах!

Ilmen Slovenes were a special Slavic people , they did not belong to the previously known Slavic tribes that founded cities such as Pskov and Kiev! It was they who in the 8th century started a huge production of colored glass beads from Staraya Ladoga , which at that time were a product of high demand!
Every Finnish fashionista of that time dreamed of colored glass beads!

http://www.ladogamuseum.ru/Ras/bus/

Hi, Александр Евгеньевич Елисеев
- are you still talking about genetic genealogy or culture.
Well. I'm just wondering the level of conversation - is it!
Seppo Liukko 5.3.2020

Генетическая генеалогия показывает только общую картину расселения людей в древности! При плотности населения один человек на десять квадратных километров это не является основополагающим фактором! Исследовать необходимо совокупность различных факторов! Какое количество финнов жило в этом регионе в 9 веке? Какое количество славян? Сколько шведов? На каком языке они разговаривали между собой? Сколько было смешанных браков? В 7 веке в районе реки Волхов и озера Ильмень жило не более 150 финнов в пяти небольших селах! Занимались они рыболовством, охотой и примитивным земледелием! В 10-13 веках Новгород становится крупнейшим городом Северной Европы! Название города славянское = Новый Город! Бытовой язык в Новгороде преимущественно славянский (древнерусский)! Это подтверждено многочисленными находками археологов!

Genetic genealogy shows only the General picture of human settlement in ancient times! With a population density of one person per ten square kilometers, this is not a fundamental factor! It is necessary to investigate a set of different factors! How many Finns lived in this region in the 9th century? How many Slavs? How many Swedes? What language did they speak to each other? How many mixed marriages were there? In the 7th century, no more than 150 Finns lived in five small villages in the area of the Volkhov river and lake Ilmen! They were engaged in fishing, hunting, and primitive agriculture! In the 10th-13th centuries, Novgorod became the largest city in Northern Europe! The Slavic name of the town = New Town! Everyday language in Novgorod is mainly Slavic (old Russian)! This is confirmed by numerous finds of archaeologists!

Рюрик не принадлежал к карельским и финским племенам, жившим в 7 веке в районе реки Волхов и озера Ильмень! Смотрите схему!

Rurik did not belong to the Karelian and Finnish tribes that lived in the 7th century in the area of the Volkhov river and lake Ilmen! Please see the diagram!

https://mouglley-gen.livejournal.com/25158.html

Regarding the name Novgorod. It is based on Indo-European words, Nov (Neuja) =new, and Gorod, (Ghorto) yard, and the slaves lend the words from germanic speakers, why not the Scandinavians, Nygård in Swedish.

It's a dead end mixing language and DNA. You have to look around that, because what ever language people have spoken is not by default connected by their ancestries DNA, and when it comes to a straight line of Y-DNA, father to son, the whole thing about connecting it in retro to any specific language is futile.

Название Новгород = Новый Город у славян встречается довольно часто! Город - в славянских языках созвучно словам: городить, огород, огораживать! В индоевропейских языках многие слова похожи, так как в основе их лежит один общий древний язык! Финский язык не является индоевропейским, так как принадлежит к иной языковой группе!

Name Novgorod = New city among the Slavs is quite common! City-in Slavic languages, it is consonant with the words: city, garden, fence! In Indo- European languages, many words are similar, since they are based on one common ancient language! Finnish is not an Indo-European language, as it belongs to a different language group!

Древние славянские города, жиле дома и крепости отличаются от шведских конструктивно! Пантеон славянских языческих богов не идентичен пантеону скандинавских языческих богов!

Ancient Slavic cities , residential buildings and fortresses differ from the Swedish constructively! The Pantheon of Slavic pagan gods is not identical to the Pantheon of Scandinavian pagan gods!

According to Hervara saga and others.

Frode

Halvdan Frodesson

Hrothgar

his grandson

Haraldr gamli

his son

Hálfdan snjalli, King in the landscape Skåne, (today southern Sweden), married with a daugher to an East Gothic King (ostrogoth).

his son, Ivar Vidfamne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivar_Vidfamne

his daughter Aud (Alfhild) Ivarsdotter married, Hrörek of Lejre

their son, Harald Hildetan, who might have had another father named Radbard of Gardarike, (Garðaríki (anglicized Gardariki or Gardarike) or Garðaveldi is the Old Norse term used in medieval times for the states of Kievan Rus). If so, it would maybe explain the finnish Y-DNA, but but.

Aud Ivarsdotter also had another son, Randver, and he had the son Sigurd Ring.

Sigurd had the son Ragnar Lodbroke.

Ragnars Lodbroke's son was Björn Ironside,

His son
Erik Björnsson and - Refil (his son Erik Refilsson (and or maybe Olof).

Erik Björnssons sons Anund Uppsale and Björn at Håga (and or maybe Olof).

Here we do not know for sure, who was the father of Olof, but in the middle of 850 he was the king in Svitjod, which means he guaranteed belonged to the same ruling family. He ruled at the time Rurik went away and it's likely that Rurik was the son of Olof, and used his fathers ships, the same that Olof used attacking the east of Baltic areas, (now Estland, Lettland).

At the end of Olof's rule, he was followed in succesion by Erik Anundsson, (Anund Upsala's son) and Erik Anundsson's son Björn Eriksson followed him, and his son Erik Segersäll become father to Olof Skötkonung.

If Rurik was the son of Olof, then he would be better off ruling in Rus, than compete for the crown in Svitjod.

Как звали отца Рюрика неизвестно! Русский историк Василий Татищев в своей книге, изданной в 18 веке, писал, что Рюрик внук Новгородского правителя Гостомысла! Все сыновья Гостомысла погибли, а дочери были выданы замуж за различных правителей! Дочь Гостомысла по имени Умила (славянка) родила сына по имени Рюрик! Ранее Рюрик был правителем Финляндии! Гостомысл завещал передачу власти в Новгороде своему внуку Рюрику! Эта версия Татищева вполне правдоподобна!

What was the name of Rurik's father is unknown! Russian historian Vasily Tatishchev wrote in his book published in the 18th century that Rurik was the grandson of the Novgorod ruler gostomysl! All the sons of gostomysl died , and the daughters were married to various rulers! The daughter of gostomysl named Umila (Slav) gave birth to a son named Rurik! Previously, Rurik was the ruler of Finland! Gostomysl bequeathed the transfer of power in Novgorod to his grandson Rurik! This version of Tatishchev is quite plausible!

В то время, когда об этом писал Татищев, на официальном уровне утверждалось, что Рюрик являлся прямым потомком Римского Императора по имени Август, что сейчас выглядит смешным!

At the time when Tatishchev wrote about it, it was officially stated that Rurik was a direct descendant of the Roman Emperor named Augustus, which now looks ridiculous!

It's tragic to read that you do not understand anything at all. because according to the Nestor chronicle, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_Chronicle "they" gathered a group of people and sent them over seas to get them to help them restore order and peace in their own land. = importing a new ruler from another land over seas, NOT LAND as it would be if they went only to Finland.

"Chronology of major events

862 – The Severians attempted to rid themselves of the Varangian lordship, which led to quarrels among the Slavic tribes and culminated in the summoning of the Varangians to rule over the Slavic tribes.

As a result, the land of Rus’ was founded by three Varangian brothers: Rurik, Truvor, and Sineus. Shortly after, Rurik became the sole ruler of the newfound nation and built Novgorod. At the same time, a Varangian state was established in Kiev, with Askold and Dir at its head, that unprecedently posed a substantial threat to the Byzantine empire."

Here we have to understand, what kind of people at that time who actually owned a lot of ships and hundreds of men, because they did not just brought over one, or three men (people, persons), it would be stupid to believe that, but you do as you say that they went to Finland and took one man as their leader! Was he Superman or what?
There are no sources what so ever telling us that Rurik was the ruler of Finland, and evrybody (not pro sovietic russian tsar fanatics) describe Gostomysl as pure fantasies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gostomysl

У меня есть полный текст Нестора! Вы читаете отдельные фрагменты текста в вольном пересказе и плохом переводе! Добавляете к этому свои собственные фантазии! Утверждение Татищева о финском происхождении Рюрика подтверждается современными генетиками! У большинства современных потомков Рюрика финская Y-DNA N1c1! Финляндия находится на берегу Балтийского моря! Новгород находится на реке Волхов, рядом с озером Ильмень! Огромное Ладожское озеро тогда тоже считали морем! По берегам густые леса! Пешком было не дойти!

I have the full text of Nestor! You read individual fragments of text in a loose retelling and poor translation! Add your own fantasies to this! Tatishchev's statement about Rurik's Finnish origin is confirmed by modern geneticists! Most modern descendants of Rurik have Finnish Y-DNA N1c1! Finland is located on the Baltic sea! Novgorod is located on the Volkhov river , near lake Ilmen! The huge lake Ladoga was also considered a sea at that time! On the banks of dense forests! It was impossible to walk!

В Советском Союзе у власти были коммунисты - интернационалисты! Они придерживались классовой теории развития общества в соответствии с учениями Карла Маркса и Фридриха Энгельса! Они строили государство рабочих и крестьян, а всех прежних правителей и их окружение считали врагами трудового народа! Поэтому они безжалостно истребляли всех их потомков!

In the Soviet Union, internationalist Communists were in power! They adhered to the class theory of the development of society in accordance with the teachings of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels! They built a state of workers and peasants, and all the former rulers and their entourage were considered enemies of the working people! They, therefore, ruthlessly exterminate all of their descendants!

Книги Василия Татищева у меня есть в оригинальном издании 18 века! Раньше я не предавал этим книгам особого значения, но когда, по результатам современных генетических исследований, у большинства потомков Рюрика был выявлен финский Y-DNA N1c1 (по классификации 2011 года), я изменил свою точку зрения!

I have Vasily Tatishchev's books in the original edition of the 18th century ! Previously , I did not attach much importance to these books , but when, according to the results of modern genetic research, most of Rurik's descendants were identified with the Finnish Y-DNA N1c1 (according to the 2011 classification), I changed my point of view!

The N1c1 in itself does not reveal much in this context. The various types of inhabitants of Scandinavia came from somewhere and lived and mixed for a long time.

The east part of Sweden had mixes of among others I-M253 (I1), R1 and N1

One must instead consider the STR-mutations (short tandem repeats) and SNP (Single Nucleotide Polymorphism) often pronounced "snip") of the N1c1.

As we know the N1c1 can be seen in a phylogenetic tree that have spread out with many branches. Among them: Spanish, Scandinavian, Balto-Polish, Finlandian/Tavastian, Ladogan, Savonian, Karelian, Turkic and others. It is described by among others Häkkinen, 2011 http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/N1c1.pdf

For the "genetic Rurik" The STR mutation DYS390 and the SNP mutations L550 are among those analysed.

The Rurikid DNA projects results show that descendants of the genetic Rurik all share the common haplogroup N1c1 (N-M178) and a specific Baltic Fenno undergroup N1c1a1a1a (L550) with SNP Y10932 and even more specifically N1c1a1a1a2 (Y4339)
***** https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rurikid/about/results *******
with more detailed results http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~mozhayski/genealogy/teksty/ydna.html

Jaakko Häkkinens genetical analysis and conclusion is that the genetical Rurik arrived from Scandinavia aproximately at the time the chronicles say. http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/Rurikid.pdf

An interesting phylogenetic tree: http://www.kolumbus.fi/geodun/YDNA/SNP-N-TREE-FIN.jpg

N1ci https://web.archive.org/web/20171027025841/http://dna.scangen.se/in...

Эти исследования хорошо известны, но они не определяют место жительство Рюрика до его появления в Новгороде!
These studies are well known, but they do not determine the place of residence of Rurik before his appearance in Novgorod!

Ladies and gentlemen,
- the phylogenetic tree of the N-haplogroup grows chronologically - it shows - who can understand it - what origin the Rurikid founder had. It was a member of the Finnic-Savo-Karel divergent group in the N-L1026 uralic-Finnic-speaking male N-population group.

This time was around 4,700 YBP. Then, all subsequent mutations in N-VL29, L550 are derived from the L1026 population, including the N-L550 branch to Rurik-Clan and Rurikids. The Rurik-Clan includes modern-day individuals who are close brother-in-law of the Rurikids, distant cousins. The historical administrative machinery of the well-known Rurkids princes is also known. There are named persons who are descended from these princes. These are still alive in different countries. They were also involved in the Romanov regime. The Ruriku family of these routines was recognized in Russia.
When yDNA samples were taken from posterity 2012-2019 YOU -. To his astonishment, Genetic researchers in Russia and Sweden had to conclude that this haploid group is an N-haploid group in the Finnish-speaking population (it is Fkta- and does not change by mixing).
It should also be noted that the Phylogenetic pedigree indicates that all of these Rurikids descendants contain all mutations in the N - haplogroup.

NOTE! These mutations of the N-group L 1026 - L550, indicating the Finnish lineage, are also found on the Rurkikids descendants. These have also been found by many Finns (NB Finnish Oriental Vikings) who, prior to the Swedish rule, were indigenous not only to Russia but also to Scandinavia, that is, before the Slavic population was about AD 700-900 to Novgorog (north) - and the Germanic (Scandinavia).

Even before the Slavs and Germans in the Novgorod and Scandinavian regions, the Finnic ural Finns and Finns lived in the area. The group that moved it to Europe has lived from Lake Baikal to Europe - already around 10,000 - 5,000 Y B P around the Baltic Sea.
This N group is also the indigenous population of this RURIK-Rurkids haplogroup. It appears in the chronological tree of the N-haplo group where the group was settled about 3300 years ago. Family history in the regions (ie modern Ladoga, Finland and Sweden).
At that time, neither Sweden nor Russia existed, there were tribes of Finnish descent.

Best regards, Seppo Liukko Finland 6.3.2020

Both the Rurikid project and Häkkinen's studies indicate a genetical background from the eastern part of what i snow Sweden. The Mälaren region or the Roslagen area.

Newer genetical research confirms what we have known for long: The society of that time didn't consist of homogenously populated nations, but rather of clusters that were highly interconnected. The genetics show this high interconnectivity well before the Viking Age. Thus for example the N1c1a1a1a2 (Y4339) in Scandinavia.

The study Population genomics of the Viking world at BioRXiv shows new findings.

"...Using fineStructure17, we find that the levels of non-Scandinavian ancestry in the Danish, Norwegian and Swedish Vikings agree with known trading routes
... The most obvious genetic signals are from Finnish and Baltic sources into the area of what is now modern Sweden, including Gotland.
These ancestries are present at considerably lower levels or are completely absent in most individuals from Denmark and Norway. A substantial interaction across
the Baltic Sea is also suggested by objects from Finland found in graves in Middle Sweden, albeit recent Sr-isotope analyses are inconclusive regarding the origin
of the buried individuals 45,46. In comparison, western regions of Scandinavia have much higher levels of ancestry from the British Isles, in comparison with the
eastern regions of Sweden (Supplementary Notes 11 and 12). ..."

"...Our findings also show that Vikings are not simply a direct continuation of the Scandinavian Iron Age groups. Rather than simple continuity, we observe foreign
gene flow from the south and east into Scandinavia, starting in the Iron Age, and continuing throughout the duration of the Viking period from an increasing number
of sources. Our findings also contradict the myth of the Vikings as peoples of pure local Scandinavian ancestry. In fact, we found many Viking Age individuals with
high levels of foreign ancestry, both within and outside Scandinavia, suggesting ongoing gene flow with different peoples across Europe..."

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/703405v1.full

А какое отношение эти исследования имеют к Новгородскому Князю Рюрику? Чем подтверждено утверждение, что "Русь" это шведские викинги? В 1296 году территория нынешнего Рослагена впервые упоминается под названием Rodhin, а название Rodzlagen впервые появляется в 1493 году и далее в 1511, 1526, 1528 годах!

But what do these studies have to the Novgorod Prince Rurik? What confirms the statement that " Rus " is the Swedish Vikings? In 1296, the territory of present-day Roslagen was first mentioned under the name Rodhin, and the name Rodzlagen first appears in 1493 and further in 1511, 1526, 1528!