Rurik, Founder of the Rurikid Dynasty - Rurik probably had Finnish roots

Arja. Previously (2018-7-30, 8:17 PM), in the discussion about the Mesolitic immigration to Scandinavia, you linked to this article:

https://www.forskning.se/2018/01/10/sa-befolkades-skandinavien-efte...

The article outlines that during the Mesolitic age [7,500–4,000 BC]., there was an influx of hunters and gatherers also from the East.

Well, if you follow the link from that article to the original scientific article (in English), you come here:

http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbi...

Interestingly the article reveals following:

"The Y chromosomal haplotype was determined for three of the four males, all carried I2 haplotypes, which were common in pre-Neolithic Europe"

So not N1c-haplotype, but I2 [https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml] - that is: non-Finnish/non-Ugric.

Capitan di Navio:

(Catherina II "the Great" Empress of All Russia is your 9th cousin 6 times removed. ) - me.

So Christina - we are related that way too (if Geni is correct for Catherine II "The Great" of Russia) - my 8th cousin 7 times removed

Amir, please
"Archeology suggests that around 750 BC there was a fairly uniform German-speaking population in southern Scandinavia and along the North Sea and South Baltic coast from the present Netherlands to the Weichsel River. This unity was split into five main groups around 250 BC: North Germanic old nordic) in Scandinavia except Jutland, north sea Germanic along the North Sea including Jutland, Elbe-Germanic around Elbe, Rhine-Weser-Germanic around these rivers and East Germanic between the Oder and Weichsel rivers. "

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urgermanska

So that there would be Germans who made the Finnish-Baltic type of cheramic around the Mälaren according to your theory with reference to your links as far back as the 1900BC - 2800BC ???
This is completely impossible.

Amir, you can not pick out a little bit in a big survey as you do. The survey shows that, during Mesolithic times, Scandinavia was populated mainly from two directions, but more invasions occurred over time.

https://www.forskning.se/2018/01/10/sa-befolkades-skandinavien-efte...

"Modern people in Northern Europe can not trace much of their genetic material back to the Mesolithic Scandinavians.
"What we have seen is that 10,000 years ago, after Scandinavia became ice-free, different groups moved into the Scandinavian peninsula.
  These migration processes are seen over and over again; later during the Stone Age, during the Bronze Age and during historical times, Mattias Jakobsson says. "

"Author summary:
The Scandinavian peninsula was the last part of Europe to be colonized after the Last Glacial Maximum. The migration routes, cultural networks, and the genetic makeup of the first Scandinavians remain elusive and several hypotheses exist based on archaeology, climate modeling, and genetics. By analyzing the genomes of early Scandinavian hunter-gatherers, we show that their migrations followed two routes: one from the south and another from the northeast along the ice-free Norwegian Atlantic coast. These groups met and mixed in Scandinavia, creating a population more diverse than contemporaneous central and western European hunter-gatherers. As northern Europe is associated with cold and low light conditions, we investigated genomic patterns of adaptation to these conditions and genes known to be involved in skin pigmentation. We demonstrate that Mesolithic Scandinavians had higher levels of light pigmentation variants compared to the respective source populations of the migrations, suggesting adaptation to low light levels and a surprising signal of genetic continuity in TMEM131, a gene that may be involved in long-term adaptation to the cold."

http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbi...

Now we're out of course because it's not about Rurik's time, but::
"The first modern people who migrated into the present Sweden when the inland ice started to release its grip more than 10,000 years ago were hunters and collectors. Probably they followed the herds of wild boars that lived along the ice edge. Their skin was dark, Mattias Jakobsson, a professor of genetics in Uppsala and one of the researchers in the Swedish Atlas project, believes to map the legacy of early peoples in the country. The skin color is a legacy of the African origin: - They were genetically similar to the individuals living at that time in today's Luxembourg, Spain and Germany. They had a look that is quite unusual today, they had blue eyes with the right dark skin.

But the newcomers did not live alone for a long time.
Archaeologists have been able to follow how a modern technique for making tools and arrows spread across the inland ice, down through Norway and down to Denmark over the course of a thousand years.
And now the latest DNA results indicate that there were people from today's Russia who took this knowledge with them.
The new immigrants lived with salmon and fish, and differed from the first group in several ways. Among other things, their DNA shows that they have already begun adapting to more easily form vitamin D with the sun's help on northern latitudes, where there are dark parts of the year.
In the next centuries, the two groups melted together. The researchers find genes for both blue and brown eyes, while the bodies of the people continued to turn to northern conditions."
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap/de-var-de-forsta-svenskarna

Arja - Good input. I will work on replies tomorrow evening.

Hi all! I happened to do some research about Rurik as I myself have the specific gene N1c1a1a1a2 (Y4339).

I am from Swedish speaking areas of Finland(Westcoast) living in a place called Närpes.
This area has a history of vikings and we have a history that goes back to stoneage.
Here is a local map and history(in swedish) about our area and I believe that we living here have this gene and we also found a great amount evidence that it might be so.

Have a look at this map: http://lokalhistoria.fi/historia2/showMap.htm#jarnaldern

Here also is an article in a local newspaper. I translated it to english with Google Translate:

Last summer, ten adventurers from Sweden and Russia made a trip with a barely ten meter long Viking boat from southern Ukraine to Gothenburg in the famous Rurik's track in the reverse direction. They are looking for the island in the Baltic Sea from where he and two brothers are said to have started their long journey and - according to the Nestor Chronicle - to have taken power in the Kiev kingdom in 862. Rurik was born about 830 and died in 879. The reason was that the tribes of today's Russia, mainly Shooter, sent a wish to the Vikings - in Birka? - with the simple words: "Give us a ruler!". According to Wikipedia, Rurik is said to be a "warrior of the Russian tribe". These are linked etymologically to Roslagen and according to this logic the desired island should lie there. But now DNA research among his Rurik's descendants has shown that it belongs to a specific "Baltic Sea subgroup" found in Western Finland and most in Pörtom, Närpes, Ostrobothnia!

Original swedish:

Senaste sommar gjorde tio äventyrare från Sverige och Ryssland en färd med en knapp tio meter lång vikingbåt från södra Ukraina till Göteborg i den berömde Ruriks spår i omvänd riktning. De söker den ö i Östersjön varifrån han och två bröder lär ha startad sin långa färd och - enligt Nestorkrönikan - ha tagit makten i Kievriket år 862. Rurik var född ca 830 och dog 879. Orsaken var att stammarna i dagens Ryssland, främst Skyter, sände en önskan till Vikingarna - i Birka? - med de enkla orden: "Ge oss en härskare!". Rurik uppges enligt Wikipedia vara en "varjag av rusernas stam". Dessa kopplas etymologiskt ihop med Roslagen och enligt den logiken borde den eftersökta ön ligga där. Men nu har DNA forskningen bland hans Ruriks ättlingar visad att den tillhör en specifik "Östersjöfinsk undergren" som finns i Västfinland och mest i Pörtom, Närpes, Österbotten!
Ovannämnda vikingentusiaster planerar sin följande färd till Bornholm. Kanske de borde i sin jakt efter den berömda "Ö i Östersjön" - varifrån Rurik startade - komma ihåg att Bottniska Viken var och är en del av Östersjön och dagens Närpes var på gamla kartor så sent som i början av 1500 talet inritad som ö eller arkipelag "Nerpia". Den centrala ön var - som jag ser det - dagens Muliberg, egentligen "Nuliberg" - t ex på kartor för 100 år sedan. Etymologiskt med tanke på Närpes språk/dialekt kan "Nuli" lätt härledas från "Nord" och detta ord från - hedniska guden - "Njord", sjöfararnas beskyddare! Kanske den i Pörtom födde Rurik startade sin färd från stenringen på dagens Muliberg - där hela manskapet blev välsignat i en hednisk ceremoni - för att sedan han och hans ättlingar skulle bli härskare över Ryssland, världens största land!

Rurik is your 31st great grandfather.

Juan Carlos Blom
→ Juan Iges Blom
your father → Carmen Cristina Madsen
his mother → Ana Hilda Mathiasen
her mother → Lars Mathiasen
her father → Mathias Larsen
his father → Sophie Margrete Mathiasdatter
his mother → Karen Jensdatter
her mother → Kirstine Margrete Christiansdatter
her mother → Christian Jeppesen Bruun
her father → Karen Nielsdatter Bruun
his mother → Niels Frandsen Bruun
her father → Johanne Andersdatter Grøn
his mother → Anders Eriksen Grøn, til Tamdrup Bisgaard
her father → Bodil Markvardsdatter Rodsteen, af Lengsholm, Vorgaard
his mother → Sophie Nielsdatter Vognsen
her mother → Niels Mortensen Vognsen, af Stenshede, til Lengsholm
her father → Mette Eriksdatter Rotfeld
his mother → Erik Nielsen Rotfeld
her father → Margrethe Henriksdatter Rotfeldt
his mother → Henrik Albertsen Eberstein, til Landtind og Rydhave
her father → Grev Albert Albrechtsen von Everstein
his father → Albrecht VI von Everstein, til Ørnhoved
his father → Ludwig l "der Ältere" von Everstein, Graf
his father → Albert III von Everstein, Graf von Everstein
his father → Richeza of Poland, Queen of Castile and León
his mother → Władysław II the Exile, High Duke of Poland
her father → Bolesław III Piast, Wrymouth, Duke
his father → Władysław I Herman, Duke
his father → Maria Dobroniega of Kiev
his mother → Vladimir the Great, Grand Prince of Kiev
her father → Sviatoslav Igorevich, Grand Prince of Kiev
his father → Igor of Kiev
his father → Rurik
his father

Tommy Westlin just a minor correction of your translation, Skyter = Scythians, not "Shooter".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

Very true Ulf Martinsson. I used Google Translate. Thx for the correction.
Also thanks to u Juan.

From my fifth great grand mother Sarah Margaret Allston I have trace her back to Rurik with these 3 books besides the two I mention before. They are Plantagenet Ancestry of Seventeen Century Colonist, The Royal Descendants of 600immigrants before 1700,and The Alston and Allston of North and South Carolina

I have a lots of Finnish cousin. The only way I can figure it out is through him. Most of other relatives I have is in Russia- Ukraine area. Rurik is suppose to be connected with both area.

Rurik is your 33rd great grandfather.

Ken Jørgen

→

Liv Ingebjørg Berntsen
your mother

→

Laila Sofie Sønvisen
her mother

→

Peder Bernhard Sønvisen
her father

→

Eva Kirstine Andersdatter
his mother

→

Anders Johannesen, 1834
her father

→

Anne Birgitte Andersdatter
his mother

→

Berith Urbanusdatter
her mother

→

Margrethe Marie Mentzdatter Kaaby
her mother

→

Mentz Hansen Kaaby
her father

→

Hans Johansen Kaaby
his father

→

Gjertrud Hansdatter Darre
his mother

→

Birgitte Samuelsdatter Arctander
her mother

→

Samuel Lauritsen Arctander
her father

→

Magdalena Sigvardsdatter Arctander
his mother

→

Sigvard Amundsen
her father

→

Anna Ottesdatter Rømer
his mother

→

Ridder Otte Mattson Rømer, til Nidaros og Austråt
her father

→

Gro Alfsdatter Bolt, til Haavardstad
his mother

→

Katarina Jonsdatter Sørum, Sudrheim
her mother

→

Agnes Sigurdsdotter Stjerne
her mother

→

Sigurd Haftorsson Giske til Sudrheim
her father

→

Agnes Håkonsdotter
his mother

→

Håkon V «Háleggr» Magnusson, konge av Norge
her father

→

Ingeborg Eriksdotter Eriksdatter, Dronning av Norge
his mother

→

Jutta Albrechtsdatter von Sachsen, Dronning av Danmark
her mother

→

Hertug av Sachsen Albert (Albrecht) I Bernhardssøn von Sachsen, Herzog von Sachsen
her father

→

Judyta Albertssøn
his mother

→

Mieszko III the Old, High Duke of Poland
her father

→

Bolesław III Piast, Wrymouth, Duke
his father

→

Władysław I Herman, Duke
his father

→

Maria Dobroniega of Kiev
his mother

→

Vladimir the Great, Grand Prince of Kiev
her father

→

Sviatoslav Igorevich, Grand Prince of Kiev
his father

→

Igor of Kiev
his father

→

Rurik
his father

I have Y-DNA haplogroup N-Z1933 (N1c1a1a1a2a1a1) and subclade N-Y47623
and mtDNA U5b1b1a1, I have Saami and Kvenish ancestry. I think Rurik was Kven or Saami warrior :)

Hello to all my cousins near and far, he is my 32nd GG

Rurik, Founder of the Rurikid Dynasty
is my 29th great grandfather

Rurik is my 27th great grandfather via both my mother's and my father's lines.

@Rurik I put several documents on Rurik and his descendants from the book called The Royal Descends of 600 Immigrants to The American Colonies before 1700 by Gay Boyd Roberts. It stars with him and list several descendants.

Роберт! Размещенные Вами документы не имеют никакого отношения к Князю Новгородскому по имени Рюрик! Пожалуйста, удалите их из его профиля на сайте Geni!

Robert! The documents you posted have nothing to do with The Prince of Novgorod named Rurik! Please delete them from his Geni profile!

31rst gg

Rurik family - and descendants' father line yDNA is the N-haplogroup - and the original language is?

The language of a person / nation can change, but the language does not change the genome (DNA).

In the Russian territory, Finno-Ugric (f-u) languages ​​are the language spoken by the indigenous population. This language has come from Asia across the Ural Mountains to Europe with Finnish (FINNIC) males (yDNA being an N-haplo group). Finnic (f-u language) male genetics - the paternal lineage was the yDNA-N haplogroup. The N-haplo group has been separated from the NO group already in Asia about 28000 years ago (see phylogenetic chronological tree).
This so-called. the extensive area stretched from Lake Baikal to the Baltic Sea (including Finland-Novgorod-Baltic-Scandinavia), the original extensive sparsely populated area.
This ancient population practiced pagan religions, until almost the 13th century.
But religion has nothing to do with heredity or human intelligence. The lineage remains even if the language changes.

Finno-Ugric The language has changed, for example. In Russian territory, when the Slavic population began to arrive in sufficient numbers to Russia / Novgorod region, which was an area of ​​native Finnic (language fu - Finnic), where, according to historical archeology, Slavic migrations only came after AD 700.

The reason for the change of language in Russia was when the Slavic Church was chosen as the common language of the church around AD 850-900. According to Nestor's Chronicle, the Novgorod State was in the process of establishing three Finnic and two Slavic populations.
The language of the Finnic (Finnic f-u language) population slowly changed until about the 1700s. And it is still changing, as in the Baltics.

NOTE. Human genes do not change because of language or religion or anything else. Peoples die extinct, even if their original language changes, etc., they continue to live in a new community for a variety of reasons.

The spread of N-haplogroup f-u has been found in a multinational study published on 12/2018, I place this source as a more secure guarantee, link> https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-018...
Best Rigards Seppo Liukko

Seppo I.T.Liukko (Hillberg-son of Yrjö H.)
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo, nací y vivo en el sur del Continente Americano en la República Argentina hablo Español, soy Católico y mis antepasados vinieron de Los Países Bajos (Holanda) y Dinamarca por la parte paterna y de otros países Europeos por la parte materna , todos profesaban distintas religiones y distintos idiomas y se adaptaron a un lugar en el mundo totalmente distinto a sus orígenes .

Более двадцати процентов территории современной России в 21 веке занимают кочевники-оленеводы! Это огромная северная территория! Средняя плотность населения 0,1 человека на квадратный километр! Зато они сохраняют древний уклад жизни, язык, традиции и самобытную культуру!

More than twenty percent of the territory of modern Russia in the 21st century is occupied by nomadic reindeer herders! This is a huge Northern territory! The average population density is 0.1 people per square kilometer! But they preserve the ancient way of life, language, traditions and original culture!

Александр Евгеньевич Елисеев
- Original Language and Genetics of Finnic Population in Russia:

What do you mean by talking about reindeer Sami alone?
In the northern part of the sparsely populated country there were reindeer herders, but in the areas between Moscow and the Baltic, for example, there were far more Finnic - Uralic speakers.
 There are 15 Finnish-speaking populations in the international study I mentioned.
- What do you say about this study - a link - with a multitude of researchers from a number of countries - defined the habitats of the Finnish-speaking population in Russia, which have the ND haploid family of YDNA (which thousands of years ago brought Finnic-Uralic (FU) languages - To Scandinavia.
A sizeable proportion of these people still live in Russia, but the genetics remain the same, with language change.
Nowadays most of them also speak Russian, which is made up of Finnish - and Slavic - as I said - with a Church Slavic background.
In Finland, Estonia and the Baltics, and in Sweden and Norway, the original language of the population has also been the old Finno-Ugric language. In Scandinavia even before the arrival of Germanic languages ​​- during the great international outbreaks (from AD 375) and mainly afterwards to Scandinavia (NB: the yDNA N group is not typical for the Germanic, it is of Finnish origin eg in Sweden).

Плотность населения зависит от уклада и образа жизни! В одном регионе может проживать несколько малочисленных групп населения, ведущих архаичный образ жизни, но приходит новый народ и начинает строить города, развивать торговлю и ремесла! Плотность населения увеличивается во много раз!

The population density depends on the way of life and lifestyle! In one region, there may be several small groups of people who lead an archaic lifestyle, but a new people comes and begins to build cities, develop trade and crafts! The density of the population increases many times!

Древнейший текст написанный кириллицей на финском языке найден в Новгороде и датируется 13 веком!
The oldest text written in Cyrillic in Finnish was found in Novgorod and dates back to the 13th century!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_bark_letter_no._292
Новгороде и других древних русских городах археологи нашли более 1100 древних бытовых текстов, написанных на русском языке (славянском языке), которые датируются 11-13 веками!
Russian Russian archaeologists have found more than 1,100 ancient everyday texts written in Russian (Slavic) in Novgorod and other ancient Russian cities that date back to the 11th-13th centuries!
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Берестяные_грамоты

This is very interesting to me as Rurik is my 29th Great Grandfather. My father was born is Porvoo Finland and descends from Nassokin Line (Finnish Nobility). What interesting is the Nassokins in Finland were from Russian Nobles (Boyar). Peter Nassokin father Leontij Fjodorovich Nasackin (my 9th Great Grandfather) from Novgorod gave up his inheritance of Russian land in the Baltic (Livonia, Estonia, Latvia), at the time of advancing swedish expansion towards Novgorod/Kiev.
The interesting part was he accepted Finnish Nobility (not Swedish) from the Swedish Kingdom in exchange for his Russian Lands. Peters Son Lt Col Henrik married Gertrud von Ungarn who connects my Line to Rurik (and Hungarian Kings). It funny as Rurik came from Finland, started Russia (The Rus/Rurikids) then later Russian descendants chose to return to Finland as Nobles. Nassokin line is deleted from Russian History as deserters/traitors.
Rurik is your 29th great grandfather.
You
→ Anders Gustav Karlsson
your father → Hugo Arvid Karlsson
his father → August Ferdinand Karlsson
his father → Anna Helena Brunberg
his mother → Henrika Eleonora Nassokin
her mother → Adam Henrik Nassokin
her father → Henrik Nassokin
his father → Cnt. Axel Gotthard Nassokin, till Suontaka
his father → Lt. Col. Henrik Nassokin, till Andersböle
his father → Gertruda von Ungern
his mother → Heinrich von Ungern
her father → Fromholt von Ungern, auf Gilsen
his father → Gertrud von Tiesenhausen
his mother → Fromhold von Tiesenhausen, von der Berson
her father → Fromhold von Tiesenhausen
his father → Peter von Tiesenhausen
his father → Bartholomeus von Tiesenhausen, of Kokenhausen
his father → Johann von Tiesenhausen
his father → Sofia von Hoya, Princess of Polotsk and Kokenhusen
his mother → princess Sophia Hoya, von Kokenhusen u Polotzk
her mother → Prince of Koknese Vyachko, from Polotsk
her father → Prince de Smolensk Borys
his father → Dawid Rurykowicz
his father → Sviatoslav Prince of Vitebsk
his father → Vseslav "the Sorcerer" of Kiev
his father → Bryachislav Iziaslavich, prince of Polotsk
his father → Iziaslav Vladimirovich, Prince of Polotsk
his father → Vladimir the Great, Grand Prince of Kiev
his father → Sviatoslav Igorevich, Grand Prince of Kiev
his father → Igor of Kiev
his father → Rurik

Similar to others I have lines through Yaroslav the Wise (Vladimir other son)

La mayoría de los conquistadores de América son descendientes de Richeza of Poland, Queen of Castile and León
Rurik era su 5 abuelo,lo que quiero decir es que tubo 5 hijos y sus descendientes conquistaron 500 años después América.

Многие Таджики искренне считаю, что их древние сородичи (степные кочевники-скотоводы) первыми открыли Американский континент и основали там два государства, а именно: Уругвай и Парагвай! Обосновывают они это тем, что в их тюркском языке есть слова: "уругвай" и "парагвай"! Далеко шагнула современная наука!

Many Tajiks sincerely believe that their ancient relatives (steppe nomads-pastoralists) were the first to discover the American continent and founded two States there, namely: Uruguay and Paraguay! They justify this by the fact that in their Turkic language there are words: "Uruguay" and "Paraguay"! Modern science has stepped far!