Capt. William Constable Lee, Esq. - Col Richard Lee and the Lees of Virginia Lineage - DNA 'Evidence"

What do you need me to do?

Hi cousin :)

This was an 'In General" post discussion to put on notice to those who are stating on line in genealogy that Col. Richard Lee is a Haplogroup M-253 and all those descendants that are Haplogroup M-269, or other, who have lineages documented to the Lees of Virginia lines, and their ancestors, are being disconnected from Col. Richard Lee and told they are 'Lee wannabe's" because of UNVERIFIED Lee Y-DNA Surname projects that have stated so are doing this basically illegally or without proof of the claim. Any claim of knowledge as fact of what the Lees of Virginia male Y-DNA Haplogroup is not valid basically because such claims cannot be verified. SO UNTRUE.

Documented pedigrees can be verified, if there are accepted sources, they can be verified, if there is science or proof of a DNA connection, it has to be verifiable publicly and by the individuals affected by such claims, especially the 80% of documented male Lee descendants that have the Haplogroup M-269 (who are being told that they are Lee's).

And in the case of William Constable (which was not his middle name but just for identifying purposes for genealogist because of repetitions of names) Lee on his profile states that DNA evidence ... and so on ... even stating his lines is from Ulster Ireland - and documented descendants from William C Lee have little or no Irish DNA - United Kingdom, yes but mostly little Ulster Irish, unless influenced by some other ancestor.

It is reckless, speculative, and unfair to the Lee of Virginia descendants that this has been done by Genealogy website Users/Curators. That is why I posted this.

I am finding that much of the historic lines and history is being re-writing here on Geni incorrectly and there is not much anyone outside of the curators that can be done to keep it in tact.

@Colonel Richard "the Immigrant" Lee

@Richard Lee, I

@John Lee, Esq.

Examples of disconnected lines.

And in regards to John Lee, Esquire, should be a descendant through Richard Henry Lee, son of William C Lee
:

'''REGARDING CURATOR NOTES:'''
'''There is no proven Y-DNA verifiable evidence that John Lee Esquire is not of the Lees of Virginia line. This is false information.

John Lee, Esquire was born in Virginia, but DID NOT MOVE to Johnston County, NC - the territorial county line were very fluid during this time, so never moved, the territory lines did and counties renames - see "History of Nansemond".

Capt. William Constable Lee lands he obtained from marriage to Alice Felton can be traced down from lawsuit stemming from disputed inheritance and lands inherited by Alice Felton from death of her first husband Thomas Felton.

John Lee Esquire and son's American Revolution War record depositions for pensions verify relationships and birth places.''' - Thank you, Jacqueli Finley

@Richard Lee, I

It has long been known, by us Lee researchers, for I am a descendant of John Lee Esq. and have been researching him since the 1970s, that he is indeed not connected to Richard Lee nor the VA Lees, or at least no connections to the VA Lees have been found, and that his origins are unknown as of this writing. It is suspect that he immigrated to Virginia during the Colonial period and further suspect he came from the British Isles, but nothing is factually known of this.

Genealogy has become a populist creativity/activity and some folk will 'plug in' whatever fancies will meet to their minds. That, coupled with the fact that 'Genealogical News' travels slowly, if at all, and that the modern 'populist vein' of recent genealogy, forswears the laborious & time consuming act of research, however so modicum the amount, only adds to the 'slow death' feature of factual truths, and hence, are perpetuated beyond their rightful deaths.

In sum, some do not research, some do not acknowledge, and others adhere to truthful events, perhaps lazily or otherwise unwillingly, and fall victims to this phenomenon of perpetuating false facts, which has arisen ever so recently, even, as witnessed, into the highest realms of our land.

I thank you, Jacqueli, for posting this....perhaps Geni.com will prove to be in the forefront of factual information, where it will be continually be 'bombarded' by those with false information presenting themselves with false/mis-informed pretensions.

Marvin Loyd Welborn I am sorry but I am not familiar with any of your Lee research - please send a link(s) where it can be accessed. Thank you.

It has only been recent the controversy regarding John Lee, Esquire for he was always associated as the son of Richard Henry Lee, son of William Lee and Alice Felton - it has only been in past decade after overwhelming evidence has show William Lee did marry Alice Felton and is son of Col. Richard Lee when the disconnection of John Lee, Esquire from parent Richard Henry Lee.

This along with the false narrative being shared on certain Lee Surname Projects about the Lee of Virginia Haplogroup being used to confirm or deny descendants has compounded the issue in the area.

Best solution: Obtaining COl. Richard Lee DNA analyzed through a unbiased third party lab (or labs) that is (are) not associated with the Society of LOV or any other Lee Surname Project, or entities.

I believe that would the honorable and right thing to do for all Lee descendants and researchers alike. That is what I want to happen.

My original post that began this discussion BTW was more of a statement, not an argument, just common sense about bad genealogy practices that have been affecting the descendants of the Lee family for way too long now. A 'put on notice' in a way that the current YDNA Haplogroup statements regarding Col. Richard Lee and Lees of Virginia descendants being a certain one Haplogroup and all others are non-related resulting of certain Lee Surname YDNA projects are misleading and unverified - speculative and based on opinion - and the use of such information to say that a Lee ancestor is or is not related because it is unverified and with too many discrepancies. This is bad genealogy practice and is causing many real Lee descendants confusion and disconnection of their family heritage - worse it is being purposefully done to cause dissention.

After the DNA upset concerning my cousin many times removed Richard III (he of the Leicester car park), I've developed skepticism about the entire business. Yes, my records too were torn asunder by She Who Shall Not Be Named, but luckily I printed them out before She rearranged them. I'm sticking to our extremely strong family tradition concerning the Lees. My grandfather would haunt me if I did otherwise!

Jacqueli,

First, John Lee Esq. did move to NC & died there, as is evidenced from his Will:
Will of John LEE, Esquire, from Johnston County, North Carolina, Wills 1760-1830, Vol. II, page 95. Raleigh, NC, State Dept. of Archives and History, Johnston County Records.

Regarding the Break with the Richard Lee (VA) line, the initial discovery was found in 1952.

A family bible turned up in Alabama in 1930, which was used to claim descendancy from Richard of Ditchley, through Capt. Thomas Lee. In 1952, a closer examination of the bible showed that entries had been made later than the apparent age of the bible. After this discovery, documentary proof (see below) was found in the North Carolina Court Records of 1768, that the Thomas Lee mentioned in the bible was actually the son of John Lee of North Carolina. No relationship has been proven between John Lee and the Lees of Ditchley.

John Lee's early life is still a mystery. It is believed that he was born c.1690-1695 in Virginia, possibly Northumberland Co. He married and settled along the VA/NC border around 1720, in Nansemond Co. On 26 July 1743 he received a land grant of 500 acres on the south side of the Neuse River in Johnson Co., NC, and moved there with his family. He bought more land and at the time of his death in 1768 he willed a total of 1770 acres to his heirs. He left a will (see text below) dated December 4, 1766 which named his wife Mary Lee and children. The will was probated in February 1768, so the date of death is between those two years. Johnston Co NC was Craven Co NC when John moved there in the early 1740's. It is believed but not proven that his wife's maiden name was Bryan.

Children of John Lee and wife Mary W Bryan :
Robert Lee b: 1725
Edward Lee b: 1726 in VA or NC
Fredrick Lee b: 1727 in NC
Elizabeth H Lee b: 1728 in NC
Rachel Lee b: 1729 in NC
John Lee , Jr. b: ABT. 1730 in Halifax Co., VA
Mary Lee b: 1731 in NC
Sabry Lee b: 1733 in NC
Thomas Lee b: 1735 in NC

source: http://leehouse.tripod.com/Jlx-home.htm#notes

Marvin Loyd Welborn

I did not ask you to school me on obvious online publications that are based on various opinions - the link you gave me is not your research, but research that has be gleamed over the past decade - I am very familiar with the Lee lines and what is out there for many decades now. What I was asking for was your particuliar Lee research as you mentioned yourself as a long standing Lee Family researcher and I have not come across your research, not to direct me to a project that lists one of my dearest friends who is no longer with us, 'Jim Lawler" (Prof. James H L Lawler, PHD) as a participant as I know he never was and I have his personal data research on the matter which he had given to me.

As I do not want to be grouped into your obvious insult as a "LAZY" genealogist for I believe there is a huge difference between a lazy genealogist and one who is 70% disabled and has limitations. Since 2004 I have had a Lee database of over 200,000 individuals that are well researched and documented.

I do not this to become a discussion of argument because the crux of this discussion is about the use of the Lee YDNA Surname Projects Haplogroup being used as a way to confirm or deny Lee descendants who share the common ancestor Col. Richard Lee - this is a bad (and possibly illegal) practice that has been going on for too long now. These YDNA findings are speculative and interpretations that CANNOT be verified publicly - so invalid. Period.

SO -instead of getting off point - because all Lee family members that have taken their DNA (Y and AU) that have contributed to GEDMatch and have well documented pedigrees can triangulate with other Lee descendants and can see the lines and relationbs quite clearly - so this also can tell us publicly that what the YDNA projects are suggestiong (as with John Lee Esquire, etc.) is invalid.

BTW - John Lee, Esquire never moved, the Virginia Territory was very fluid during that time Northumberland, Richmond, Surry, Roanoke, later Johnston County, NC, and more - were ALL THE SAME TERRITORY - as a Lee researcher, I am surprised you missed that tidbit of information. William Lee and Alice Felton sold to William Heath land inherited by Alice from her late husband Thomas Felton - I believe this was done so that they could have their daughter and husband living nearby - after their death, Mary Lee Heath Schriever (she married Bart Schriever after Heath's and parents death) - this is whom the uncle Richard Henry Lee (signer of DOI) took to court to over turn Col Richard Lee (their grandfather's will) inheritance that they received from father William Lee (son of Richard Lee and Ann Constable) her younger brothers were too young at that time to count much in the matter so when they came of age after their uncle took the land back from Bart Schriever who was mis-managing the estate and the younger brothers inheritance - they took uncle back to court and were aware land and monies - the land mentioned above was part of the court award. John Lee, Esq is the son of Richard H Lee, son of William Lee and ALice Felton, and grandson of Col Richard Lee - anyone can check on GEDMatch the DNA data and pedigrees that are well documented for the Lee descendants on this line as well as other lines of descents that for the most part (80% plus) are surname and DNA matche quite nicely to the descending lines from Col Richard Lee and Anne Contable. There is the approx. 20% that show bad or no pedigrees and no matches.

All of this is on record - obscure - but on record.

Here is a link (one of many) of the history of all the territorial changes and renaming of territories during that period.

https://archive.org/stream/historyofnansemo00dunn/historyofnansemo0...

I would like to keep this discussion focused on the false narrative that there is a definitive YDNA for the Lees of Virginia line - for that is one of the many false narratives regarding the Lee linage for there is NOT a confirmed or verifiable YDNA Haplogroup for Col Richard Lee, and most definitely one cannot use a YDNA surname project Haplogroup to confirm or deny an individuals relationship to a documented ancestor - you will be hard pressed to find any historical society (ie Mayflower, SAR, DAR, etc.,) that would confirm or deny a relationship based on speculative data such as that. Period.

SO please keep this discussion clean and on track - you can always start a different discussion if you want to go somewhere else on your opinions, lets just stick to the facts here so not to confuse what I am conveying - as I did say it was meant to put on notice. Thank you.

Jacqueli Charlene Finley, you've mis-read me & this entire conversation has cantered off its mark.

I did not come here to "school you." I came to thank you for your posting.

My reply was to your two points that the genealogical disconnect of John Lee Esq. from the VA Lees was a recent phenomenon, and I merely substantiated my point that it was first discovered in 1952; and that John Lee did remove himself to NC -- as is attested to his Will being posted in NC archives. Johnson County is quite the distance from where the Isle of Wight exists, down near Raleigh.

There was no insult intended and I'm sorry that you read it in that vein. As stated, I began by 'thanking you' for your post.

Again, thank you for your post, and I apologize for any misunderstandings.

I would still be interested in your Lee research Marvin. And you can start a new discussion (recommend) on the projection that the disconnect began in 1952. I would like to see the proof on all of this.

Much mis-information has been created to cause dissension and purposefully disconnect lines (other than the Ditchley associated lines) and IMHO I am seeing with the DNA results from many of us Lee descendants on public display that this maybe because of an 'NPE' that occurred possibly in the lines associated to Ditchley - or Gen. R E Lee's connection to Col. Richard lee. And I am stating this because of public access to DNA associated with certain descendants from these lines analysis. I am certain that the powers that be are already aware of all this information regarding the Lee lines. Possibly why the push back in order to cause confusion and flood the internet with mis-information because of the knowledge that DNA would eventually uncover some uncomfortable skeletons in the closet. Not so far fetched when you have a DNA database with well documented Lee descendants from various Lees of Virginia line descents for comparisons.

Take for example William Thorndale's 1988 article in the National Genealogical Society Quarterly that changed the ancestry of Col. Richard Lee from his true Shropshire descent - this would be prior to the internet giving us all access to UK Parish records and in the beginning stages of connecting DNA with genealogy - if one thinks ahead, in writing of this article, today Shropshire Lee descendants share the same YDNA Haplogroup as 80% of the male lee descendants not associated with the Ditchley line descendants (that is unverifiable) so when this disconnection occurred, it would make identifying Lee descendants with the Shropshire Lee's, possibly knowing that there exists an NPE that would cause a discrepancy in the illustrious, money making, associated Ditchley line. Today we can access ALL United Kingdom Parish records, so if you take Thorndale's publication that rewrites Richard Lee's ancestry against all associated documentation, one CANNOT LOCATE any existing Parish records to any of the parents, marriages, birth's, and probates for John Lee (Lyes or Lies) and Jane Hancock as mentioned by Thorndale - they do not exist, so it looks as if made up material - but again, this was done prior to anyone imagining that we could one day look up the records ourselves via the internet. What one does find is the Baptismal, birth and marriage records for COl. Richard Lee as his father was Ricardus Lee who married Elizabeth Bendy - Richard is also mentioned in Ricardus Lee's will and probate - this was how Edmund Lee and all associated historical documents had the ancestry. Again - the DNA trail on public DNA sites that Lee descendants are contributing show this surname connection quite nicely through Ricardus and Elizabeth. I have the microfilm and transcripts Parish records for Col Richard Lee showing Ricardus Lee as father and was baptized at Shropshire.

Col Richard Lee baptismal record
Note:Richard (Richardus) Lee listed as present (Father) at baptism: County Shropshire Register type Composite Register date range 1616-1638

Baptism date 15 May 1617
Denomination Anglican
Place Shrewsbury, St Chad's
Father's first name(s) Ricardus
County Shropshire

And Ricardus Lee Probate:
UK, Probate Records 1269-1975.Name Lee, Richard

Death 1621
Vital Shropshire, England
Probate:
First name(s) Richard:
Last name Lee
Year 1621
Probate year 1621
Inventory year 1620
Parish Shrewsbury
County Shropshire
Country England

Below I will share 'some' of my notes on John Lee Esquire so that you and others can see the truth of what I am trying to convey - the land matters are quite complex but listed accurately in my notes. Also I would mention it was up to recent (within this current decade) that the disconnect has happened because there are DAR and SAR member applications that were accepted with the lineage to RH Lee from JLX - until recently.

IT IS BECAUSE OF THE YDNA LEE SURNAME PROJECTS STATING THE HAPLOGROUP MIS-MATCH WITH DITCHLEY MEMBERS THAT HAS CAUSED THE DISCONNECTION. That is why I am sting that this is unverifyable - and this is in regard to ALL LEE LINEAGES. It is a false narrative.

My notes:

Nansemond History and notes on John Lee Esquireof Johnston County by Jacqueli Finley:

Re: John Lee, Esquire (Father:Richard Henry Lee, Born 11 Nov 1677 in Nansemond, Virginia, died in King and King County, which once was a part of Norfolk, Nansemond: Formed as Upper Norfolk in 1637 from New Norfolk County, Renamed in 1642, Records were destroyed in 1866. (http://www.mystategenealogy.com, where "state" is replaced by the state you wish to view).
Incorporated as the City of Nansemond in 1972. Merged with the City of Suffolk in 1974.
John Lee was born on 11 Mar 1695 in Nansemond County, Virginia. Note: this documentation indicates John Lee Esq. was born at Nansemond, Virginia. John Lee of Nansemond is projected YDNA Haplogroup I1a. This is contradictory to YDNA information documented elsewhere in this biography.He married Mary Bryan in 1725 in Nottoway, Isle of Wight, Virginia. He died on 4 Dec 1766 in Mill Creek, Johnston, North Carolina. All Lee YDNA HAPLOGROUP Projects and assignments of YDNA to Col Richard Lee and Lees of Virginia lines and descendants are unverifiable and obsolete in this matter and cannot be used in the confirmation or denial of ancestor/descendant connection.
Occupation: Esquire Note: John Lee came to Johnston County, North Carolina (Part of Nansemond before land division), then Craven County during the early 1740's.

Nansemond County, VA - Territoy Division History:
Established in 1637 as Upper Norfolk County and the name Nansemond was adopted in 1646. It became the independent city of Nansemond in 1972 and merged with the independent city of Suffolk in 1974. The entire area is now known as Suffolk.
Prior to this, the Virginia counties of Upper Norfolk/Nansemond and Lower Norfolk would have been the repositories for any records relating to the Albemarle region. The oldest known deed for land in North Carolina, dated September 24, 1660, was discovered accidentally in 1965 among Norfolk County records in Chesapeake. It apparently grants the entire tip of the peninsula which is now Pasquotank County to Capt. Nathaniell Batts. It is signed with the mark of Kiscutanewh, King of the Yeopim Indians. There are old Nansemond County deeds relating to land beside Bennetts Creek which refer to the Creek, named for a Governor of Virginia, now in Gates County and not Bennett Creek now in the City of Suffolk (near the mouth of the Nansemond River): this land was considered part of the Upper Parish of Nansemond County until 1728, when the dividing line betwixt Virginia and North Carolina was finally settled. (Dunn, Joseph Bragg. The History of Nansemond County, Virginia. 1907. Digital version at Internet Archive - free,http://www.iwchs.com/IWCHistory.htm)
County Seat: Suffolk
Boundary Changes and record loss:

Fire.pngWar.jpg1734, 1779, and 1866 Many records were lost by the burning of the county clerk's office where the records were in April 1734, when the courthouse was razed by British troops in 1779, and by a fire 7 February 1866. Lost censuses: 1790, 1800, 1810, 1890

NORTH CAROLINA 1663-1729 ABSTRACTS OF LAND PATENTS BY MARGARET HOFMANN

1719: 2916 pg. 175 JOHN LEE 1 March 1719/20 300 acres in Chowan precinct on ye N. side of Morattock River, joining JOHN PACE JR., EDMD. CLARK, and JOHN PACE SR. Witnesses: CHA. EDEN, THOS. POLLOCK, RICHD. SANDERSON, FRA. [FRED.] JONES, JOHN HECKLEFIELD.
ROANOKE RIVER SETTLERS, 1720
Some very early settlers along Roanoke River in North Carolina, in present-day counties of Northampton, Halifax, Bertie, Martin, and Washington, in 1720; under jurisdiction of Chowan Precinct, Albemarle County, North Carolina, at that time.
"Roanoac" was the 16th Century name of an American Indian village at the northern end of present-day Roanoke Island, in the eastern section of Dare County, North Carolina (near present-day town of Manteo, named for the 16th Century Indian chief, Manteo), and is the origin of the name "Roanoke" used as a place-name in Virginia and North Carolina.
Roanoke River has its headwaters in Montgomery Co., Va., and flows southeast into North Carolina at the northeast corner of WarrenCo,, N.C. and continues to form the county lines between Northampton and Halifax Cos., between Halifax and Bertie Cos., between Bertie and Martin Cos., and between Bertie and Washington Cos., and finally empties into Batchelor Bay of Albemarle Sound--a total distance of around 400 miles, the last 150 in N. C.
This 1720 List of Roanoke River settlers is in the Archives,,, P. 0. Box 1881, Raleigh, N.C. 27602---File
NOTE: This list was torn in two in the middle, and around a dozen names were either destroyed entirely or rendered nearly illegible. Fortunately, however, another similar list was found, with names in exact order, and it was possible to obtain most of the missing names. JOHN LEE IS AMONG THOSE LISTED.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By the 1740s, settlers were moving into lands in Johnston County- then known as Craven County. These immigrants included John Lee who on 26 July 1743 received grants for 400 and 100 acres of land along the south bank of the Neuse River. Many of his Conoho Creek neighbors such as Needham, John, and William Bryan also moved south to Johnston County prior to 1750. Court records detail his various land holdings,over 1700 acres in Johnston County and refer to his serving on juries, laying off roads, etc. John and Mary lived the remainder of their lives in Johnston County and raised at least nine children.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1734: 17 Aug. 1734 John Lee sold to William Johnston, L12, 200 a. n- Conoconary Creek, part of his patent of 28 Sept. 1730. Joseph Moore's line mentioned. Wit: Needham Bryant, Thomas Cook. [Halifax Co., N.C. Deeds 1, 131]

19 Oct. 1734 John Lee of Bertie Pct. sold to Thomas Spite, L80, 300 a. n-Connehoe Creek, part of his patent of 28 Sept. 1730.
Wit: Joseph Moore, Jr., John Ballard, Robert Butler. [Bertie Co. Deeds D-164]
1737: 28 Oct. 1737 John Lee of Bath Co. sold to James Everett L48, 100 a. n-Conoho, part of his patent of 28 Sept. 1730 in Bertie Pct.
Wit: John Wiggins, Robert Butters, Richard Wiggins. [Halifax Co. Deeds 1-437]
1738: 18 Nov. 1738 Grant to John Lee, 500 a. in Beaufort Co. on north side of Tarr River.
1739: 19 Jan. 1739/40: John Lee, Rt. Butler, and Thomas Wiggins witnessed John Wood's deed to Wm. Rountree, 326 a. s-Morratock (Roanoke) River, Cypress Swamp, part of Wood's patent of 1 Mar. 1721. [Halifax Co. Deeds 1-333]
1740: 20 Apr. 1740 John Lee of Edgecombe Co. bought from Roger Hodges L30, 200 a. s-Morratock R.
Wit: Wm. Bryant, Drew Smith, Wm. Andrews. [Halifax Co. Deeds 1-379]

21 Aug. 1740: John Lee of Edgecombe Co. and his wife, Mary, sold to Theophilus Pugh, 640 a. w-Keneetoe Creek, granted to John Lee 28 Sept. 1730. Wit: J. Barker, John Pugh, W.(Wm.) Taylor [Bertie Co. Deeds F-182]

1742: Feb. 1742: "Book of Rights, 1741-50", John Lee, Edgecombe Co., 11 whites 2 blacks [NORTH CAROLINIAN, Vol.XIII, NO. 1, p. 1829]

1744: 26 Jan. 1744 John "X" Lee of Edgecombe Co. sold to Thomas Knite, L70, 400 a. s-Morratock R. Wit: Wm. Taylor, Wm. Reddon, Thos. Price [Halifax Co. Deeds 5-320]
1745: 1 (Jan.-?) 1745 John Lee witnessed the assignment of a patent from John Askue to Nicholas Sessums, 266 a. n-Tarr R. in Bear Skinn Neck, adj. John Hodges and a slash of Indian Creek. [Halifax Co. Deeds 5-432]

1746: 18 July 1746 John Lee of Craven Co. sold:
--to James Edwards, L12, 250 a. in Beaufort Co. on Conneto Creek, half of a patent of 18 Nov. 1738. Wit: George Sugg, Wm. Brantley
--to William Brantley, L8.15, 250 a. in Beaufort Co., n-Tarr R., half of patent of 18 Nov. 1738. Wit:: George Sugg, James Edwards [Beaufort Co. Deeds 2-481 & 482]
1760: Tr.-1: Page 21
November 1760 (?-date in question by abstractor) John Lee of Johnston County to Richard Sanders …. Bounding John Odoms….being part of a survey made by said John Lee in the year 1761

Four Original "Incorporations"-----------------------------------------1617
Eight Original "Shires", Immediately Referred to as "Counties"---------1634
Accawmack formed-----------------------------------------------------1634
Charles City formed--------------------------------------------------1634
Charles River formed-------------------------------------------------1634
Elizabeth City formed------------------------------------------------1634
Henrico formed-------------------------------------------------------1634
James City formed----------------------------------------------------1634
Warrosquoyacke formed------------------------------------------------1634
Warwick River formed-------------------------------------------------1634

New Norfolk formed from Elizabeth City---------------------------------1636
Lower Norfolk formed from New Norfolk----------------------------------1637
Upper Norfolk formed from New Norfolk----------------------------------1637
New Norfolk ceases to exist------------------------------------------1637
Isle of Wight (name changed from Warrosquyoake)------------------------1637
Warrosquyoake ceases to exist----------------------------------------1637
Northampton (name changed from Accawmack)------------------------------1643
Accawmack ceases to exist--------------------------------------------1643
York (name changed from Charles River)---------------------------------1643
Charles River ceases to exist----------------------------------------1643
Warwick (name changed from Warwick River)------------------------------1643
Warwick River ceases to exist----------------------------------------1643
Northumberland formed from Indian District of Chickacoan---------------1645
Nansemond (name changed from Upper Norfolk)----------------------------1645
Upper Norfolk ceases to exist----------------------------------------1645
Gloucester formed from York--------------------------------------------1651
Lancaster formed from Northumberland-----------------------------------1651
Surry formed from James City-------------------------------------------1652
Westmoreland formed from Northumberland--------------------------------1653
New Kent formed from York----------------------------------------------1654
Rappahannock (Old) formed from Lancaster-------------------------------1656
Accomack formed from Northampton---------------------------------------1661
Stafford formed from Westmoreland--------------------------------------1664
Middlesex formed from Lancaster----------------------------------------1669
King and Queen formed from New Kent------------------------------------1691
Norfolk formed from Lower Norfolk--------------------------------------1691
Princess Anne formed from Lower Norfolk--------------------------------1691
Lower Norfolk ceases to exist----------------------------------------1691
Essex formed from Rappahannock (Old)-----------------------------------1692
Richmond formed from Rappahannock (Old)--------------------------------1692
Rappahannock (Old) ceases to exist-----------------------------------1692
King William formed from King and Queen---------------------------1701-1702
Prince George formed from Charles City----------------------------1702-1703
Hanover formed from New Kent--------------------------------------1720-1721
King George formed from Richmond----------------------------------1720-1721
Spotsylvania formed from Essex, King & Queen, and King William----1720-1721
Caroline formed from Essex, King & Queen, and King William-------------1728
Goochland formed from Henrico------------------------------------------1728
Prince William formed from King George and Stafford---------------1730-1731
Brunswick formed from Prince George-------------------------------1720-1732
Brunswick gained from Isle of Wight and Surry--------------------------1732
Orange formed from Spotsylvania----------------------------------------1734
Amelia formed from Brunswick and Prince George--------------------1734-1735
Fairfax formed from Prince William-------------------------------------1742
Louisa formed from Hanover---------------------------------------------1742
Frederick formed from Orange--------------------------------------1738-1743
Albemarle formed from Goochland----------------------------------------1744
Augusta formed from Orange----------------------------------------1738-1745
Lunenburg formed from Brunswick----------------------------------------1746
Culpeper formed from Orange--------------------------------------------1749
Chesterfield formed from Henrico---------------------------------------1749
Cumberland formed from Goochland---------------------------------------1749
Southampton formed from Isle of Wight----------------------------------1749
Dinwiddie formed from Prince George------------------------------------1752
Halifax formed from Lunenburg------------------------------------------1752
Bedford formed from Albemarle and Lunenburg-----------------------1753-1754
Prince Edward formed from Amelia----------------------------------1753-1754
Hampshire formed from Frederick-----------------------------------1753-1754
Sussex formed from Surry------------------------------------------1753-1754
Loudon formed from Fairfax---------------------------------------------1757
Fauquier formed from Prince William------------------------------------1759
Albemarle gained from Louisa-------------------------------------------1761
Amherst formed from Albemarle------------------------------------------1761
Buckingham formed from Albemarle---------------------------------------1761
Charlotte formed from Lunenburg-----------------------------------1764-1765
Mecklenburg formed from Lunenburg---------------------------------1764-1765
Yohogania formed from Augusta------------------------------------------1766
Monongalia formed from Augusta-----------------------------------------1766
Ohio formed from Augusta-----------------------------------------------1776
Pittsylvania formed from Halifax----------------------------------1766-1767
Botetourt formed from Augusta-------------------------------------1769-1770
Fincastle formed from Botetourt----------------------------------------1772
Dunmore formed from Frederick------------------------------------------1772
Berkeley formed from Frederick-----------------------------------------1772
Powhaten formed from Cumberland and Chesterfield-----------------------1777
Fluvanna formed from Albemarle-----------------------------------------1777
Henry formed from Pittsylvania------------------------------------1776-1777
Kentucky formed from Fincastle------------------------------------1776-1777
Montgomery formed from Fincastle----------------------------------1776-1777
Washington formed from Fincastle----------------------------------1776-1777
Fincastle ceases to exist---------------------------------------1776-1777
King George exchanged with Westmoreland (overlap)----------------------1777
Greenbrier formed from Botetourt and Montgomery-------------------1777-1778
Illinois formed from Augusta-------------------------------------------1778
Rockbridge formed from Augusta and Botetourt---------------------------1778
Rockingham formed from Augusta-----------------------------------------1778
Shenandoah (name changed from Dunmore)---------------------------------1778
King George exchanged with Westmoreland (overlap resolved)-------------1779
Kentucky divided into Fayette, Jefferson, & Lincoln--------------------1780
Fayette formed from Kentucky-------------------------------------------1780
Jefferson formed from Kentucky-----------------------------------------1780
Lincoln formed from Kentucky-------------------------------------------1780
Kentucky ceases to exist---------------------------------------------1780
Greensville formed from Brunswick and Sussex----------------------1780-1781
Campbell formed from Bedford--------------------------------------1781-1782
Harrison formed from Monongalia----------------------------------------1784
Illinois discontinued------------------------------------------------1784
Nelson (KY) formed from Jefferson---------------------------------1784-1785
Franklin formed from Bedford and Henry----------------------------1785-1786
Hardy formed from Hampshire---------------------------------------1785-1786
Madison (KY) formed from Lincoln----------------------------------1785-1786
Mercer (KY) formed from Lincoln-----------------------------------1785-1786
Bourbon (KY) formed from Fayette----------------------------------1785-1786
Russell formed from Washington-----------------------------------------1786
Yohogania discontinured----------------------------------------------1786
Randolph formed from Harrison-------------------------------------1786-1787
Pendleton formed from Augusta, Hardy, and Rockingham--------------1787-1788
Nottoway formed from Amelia---------------------------------------1788-1789
Kanawha formed from Greenbrier and Montgomery---------------------1788-1789
Mason (KY) formed from Bourbon (KY)-------------------------------1788-1789
Woodford (KY) formed from Fayette (KY)----------------------------1788-1789
Wythe formed from Montgomery--------------------------------------1789-1790
Bath formed from Augusta, Botetourt, and Greenbrier---------------1790-1791
Mathews formed from Gloucester------------------------------------1790-1791
Patrick formed from Henry-----------------------------------------1790-1791
Part of Fairfax ceded to Fed. Gov. for District of Columbia------------1791

9 Counties separated as State of Kentucky (Bourbon, Fayette,
Jefferson, Lincoln, Madison, Mason, Mercer, Nelson, & Woodford)--------1792

Grayson formed from Patrick and Wythe-----------------------------1792-1793
Lee formed from Russell-------------------------------------------1792-1793
Madison formed from Culpeper--------------------------------------1792-1793
Brooke formed from Ohio-------------------------------------------1796-1797
Wood formed from Harrison----------------------------------------------1798
Monroe formed from Greenbrier------------------------------------------1799
Tazewell formed from Russell and Wythe----------------------------1799-1800
Jefferson formed from Berkeley-----------------------------------------1801
Mason formed from Kanawha----------------------------------------------1804
Giles formed from Monroe, Montgomery, and Tazewell---------------------1806
Nelson formed from Amherst----------------------------------------1807-1808
Cabell formed from Kanawha---------------------------------------------1809

(Boundary changes 1800-1810:)
Grayson gained from Patrick---------------------------------------1800-1810
Tazewell gained from Russell--------------------------------------1800-1810
Harrison gained from Ohio-----------------------------------------1800-1810

Tyler formed from Ohio-------------------------------------------------1814
Scott formed from Lee, Russell, and Washington-------------------------1814
Lewis formed from Harrison---------------------------------------------1816
Nicholas formed from Greenbrier and Kanawha----------------------------1818
Preston formed from Monongalia-----------------------------------------1818
Morgan formed from Berkeley and Hampshire------------------------------1820
Pocahantas formed from Bath, Pendleton, and Randolph-------------------1821
Alleghany formed from Bath, Botetourt, and Monroe----------------------1822
Logan formed from Cabell, Giles, and Kanawha---------------------------1824

(Boundary changes 1820-1830:)
Nicholas gained from Kanawha and Lewis----------------------------1820-1830
Lee gained from Scott---------------------------------------------1820-1830
Giles gained from Monroe and Tazewell-----------------------------1820-1830
Tazewell gained from Washington and Wythe-------------------------1820-1830
Preston gained from Randolph--------------------------------------1820-1830

Floyd formed from Montgomery-------------------------------------------1831
Fayette formed from Greenbrier, Kanawha, and Logan---------------------1831
Page formed from Rockingham and Shenandoah-----------------------------1831
Jackson formed from Kanawha, Mason, and Wood---------------------------1831
Smyth formed from Washington and Wythe---------------------------------1832
Rappahannock formed from Culpeper--------------------------------------1833
Marshall formed from Ohio----------------------------------------------1835
Clarke formed from Frederick-------------------------------------------1836
Warren formed from Frederick and Shenandoah----------------------------1836
Braxton formed from Kanawha, Lewis, and Nicholas-----------------------1836
Mercer formed from Giles and Tazewell----------------------------------1837
Greene formed from Orange----------------------------------------------1838
Roanoke formed from Botetourt------------------------------------------1838
Pulaski formed from Montgomery and Wythe-------------------------------1839

(Boundary changes 1830-1840:)
Preston gained from Randolph--------------------------------------1830-1840
Tazewell gained from Russell--------------------------------------1830-1840

Carroll formed from Grayson--------------------------------------------1842
Marion formed from Harrison and Monongalia-----------------------------1842
Wayne formed from Cabell-----------------------------------------------1842
Barbour formed from Harrison, Lewis, and Randolph----------------------1843
Ritchie formed from Harrison, Lewis, and Wood--------------------------1843
Taylor formed from Barbour, Harrison, Marion, and Preston--------------1844
Appomattox formed from Buckingham, Campbell,
Charlotte, and Prince Edward-----------------------------------------1845
Doddridge formed from Harrison, Lewis, Ritchie, and Tyler--------------1845
Gilmer formed from Kanawha and Lewis-----------------------------------1845

Part of District of Columbia ceded by Fed. Gov. back to Fairfax--------1846

Wetzel formed from Tyler-----------------------------------------------1846
Alexandria formed from Fairfax-----------------------------------------1847
Highland formed from Bath and Pendleton--------------------------------1847
Boone formed from Cabell, Kanawha, and Logan---------------------------1847
Hancock formed from Brooke---------------------------------------------1848
Putnam formed from Cabell, Kanawha, and Mason--------------------------1848
Wirt formed from Jackson and Wood--------------------------------------1848

(Boundary changes 1840-1850:)
Mercer and Giles gained from Monroe-------------------------------1840-1850
Braxton gained from Kanawha and Lewis-----------------------------1840-1850
Preston gained from Monongalia------------------------------------1840-1850
Powhaten gained from Chesterfield---------------------------------1840-1850
Roane gained from Montgomery--------------------------------------1840-1850
Franklin gained from Patrick--------------------------------------1840-1850

Raleigh formed from Fayette--------------------------------------------1850
Wyoming formed from Logan----------------------------------------------1850
Craig formed from Botetourt, Giles, Monroe, and Roanoke----------------1851
Pleasants formed from Ritchie, Tyler, and Wood-------------------------1851
Upshur formed from Barbour and Lewis-----------------------------------1851
Calhoun formed from Gilmer---------------------------------------------1856
Roane formed from Gilmer, Jackson, Kanawha, and Wirt-------------------1856
Tucker formed from Randolph--------------------------------------------1856
Wise formed from Lee, Russell, and Scott-------------------------------1856
Taylor gained from Marion----------------------------------------------1856
Carroll and Henry gained from Patrick----------------------------------1856
Buchanan formed from Russell and Tazewell------------------------------1858
McDowell formed from Tazewell------------------------------------------1858
Clay formed from Braxton and Nicholas----------------------------------1858
Webster formed from Braxton, Nicholas, and Randolph--------------------1860
Bland formed from Giles, Tazewell, and Wythe---------------------------1861

50 Counties separated as State of West Virginia------------------------1863

Grant (WV) formed from Hardy (WV)--------------------------------------1866
Mineral (WV) formed from Hampshire (WV)--------------------------------1866
Lincoln (WV) formed from Boone (WV), Cabell (WV),
Kanawha (WV), and Logan (WV)-----------------------------------------1867

(Boundary changes 1860-1870:)
Upshur (WV) gained from Randolph (WV)-----------------------------1860-1870
Wirt (WV) gained from Wood (WV)-----------------------------------1860-1870
Jackson (WV) gained from Mason (WV)-------------------------------1860-1870

Summers (WV) from Fayette (WV), Greenbrier (WV), and Mercer (WV)-------1871

(Boundary changes 1870-1880:)
Floyd gained from Franklin----------------------------------------1870-1880
Hampshire (WV) gained from Mineral (WV)---------------------------1870-1880
Raleigh (WV) gained from Wyoming (WV)-----------------------------1870-1880
Wayne (WV) gained from Lincoln (WV)-------------------------------1870-1880
Tucker (WV) gained from Barbour (WV)------------------------------1870-1880

Dickenson formed from Buchanan, Russell, and Wise----------------------1880
Warwick gained from Elizabeth City-------------------------------------1882
Webster (WV) gained from Greenbrier (WV) and Nicholas (WV)-------------1882
Rockbridge gained from Botetourt---------------------------------------1887
Mingo (WV) formed from Logan (WV)--------------------------------------1895
Bland gained from Giles------------------------------------------------1900
Arlington (name changed from Alexandria Co.)---------------------------1920
Elizabeth City Co. abolished, merged into Hampton City-----------------1952
Warwick Co. abolished, incorporated as Warwick City--------------------1952
Princess Anne Co. abolished, merged into Virginia Beach City-----------1963

The original 18 Virginia incorporated cities were first recognized as
independent of counties in the 1900 U.S. Census. The formalization of the
independent status of Virginia cities evolved in stages by legislative acts
and court decisions, starting in 1887, and concluding with the Virginia
Constitution of 1902.

The original 18 incorporated cities, the counties in which they were
located, and dates they were incorporated:

Williamsburg City (James City and York Cos.)---------------------------1722
Manchester City (Chesterfield Co.)-------------------------------------1769
Richmond City (Henrico and Chesterfield Cos.)--------------------------1782
Salem City (Roanoke Co.)-----------------------------------------------1806
Norfolk City (Norfolk Co.)---------------------------------------------1845
Petersburg City (Chesterfield, Dinwiddie, & Prince George Cos.)--------1850
Alexandria City (Arlington and Fairfax Co.)----------------------------1852
Lynchburg City (Campbell Co.)------------------------------------------1852
Portsmouth City (Norfolk Co.-------------------------------------------1858
Winchester City (Frederick Co.)----------------------------------------1874
Fredericksburg City (Spotsylvania Co.)---------------------------------1879
Roanoke City (Roanoke Co.)---------------------------------------------1884
Charlottesville City (Albemarle Co.)-----------------------------------1888
Danville City (Pittsylvania Co.)---------------------------------------1890
Bristol City (Washington Co.)------------------------------------------1890
Buena Vista City (Rockbridge Co.)--------------------------------------1892
Radford City (Montgomery Co.)------------------------------------------1892
Newport News City (orig. in Warwick Co., which was abolished in 1952)--1896

Later cities incorporated as being independent of any county, the
counties in which they were originally located, and dates of incorporation
as independent cities:

Clifton Forge City (Alleghany Co.)-------------------------------------1906
Hampton City (Elizabeth City Co.)--------------------------------------1908
Suffolk City (Nansemond Co.)-------------------------------------------1910
Manchester City (Chesterfield Co.) merged into Richmond City-----------1910
(Manchester City therefore ceased to exist.)---------------------------1910
Harrisonburg City (Rockingham Co.)-------------------------------------1916
Hopewell City (Prince George Co.)--------------------------------------1916
South Norfolk City (Norfolk Co.)---------------------------------------1921
Martinsville City (Henry Co.-------------------------------------------1928
Falls Church City (Fairfax Co.)----------------------------------------1948
Waynesboro City (Augusta Co.)------------------------------------------1948
Covington City (Alleghany Co.)-----------------------------------------1952
Virginia Beach City (in Princess Anne Co.)-----------------------------1952
Warwick City (Warwick Co., which was abolished in 1952)----------------1952
Galax City (Carroll & Grayson Cos.)------------------------------------1954
Norton City (Wise Co.)-------------------------------------------------1954
Warwick City merged into Newport News City-----------------------------1958
South Boston City (Halifax Co.)----------------------------------------1960
Stanton City (Augusta Co.)---------------------------------------------1960
Colonial Heights City (Chesterfield Co.)-------------------------------1961
Fairfax City (Fairfax Co.)---------------------------------------------1961
Franklin City (Southampton Co.)----------------------------------------1961
Chesapeake City formed from Norfolk Co. and South Norfolk City---------1963
Norfolk County no longer exists----------------------------------------1963
South Norfolk City no longer exists------------------------------------1963
Lexington (Rockbridge Co.)---------------------------------------------1965
Emporia (Greensville Co.)----------------------------------------------1967
Bedford (Bedford Co.)--------------------------------------------------1968
Salem (Roanoke Co.)----------------------------------------------------1968
Nansemond (entire Nansemond Co.)---------------------------------------1972
Nansemond Co. ceases to exist------------------------------------------1972
Nansemond City merged into Suffolk City--------------------------------1974
Manassas (Prince William Co.)------------------------------------------1975
Manassas Park (Prince William Co.)-------------------------------------1975
Poquoson (York Co.)----------------------------------------------------1976
South Boston City merged back into Halifax Co. (no longer independ.)---1995
Accawmack: Created in 1634.
Renamed Northampton in 1642/43
Charles River: Formed in 1634.
Renamed York County in 1642
Dunmore: Formed in 1772 from Frederick County.
Renamed Shenandoah County in 1778.
Elizabeth City:
Originally created in 1634 as Elizabeth River Shire, it was one of eight Shires created in the Virginia Colony by order of the King of England. In 1636, it was subdivided, and the portion north of the harbor of Hampton Roads became known as Elizabeth City Shire. It was renamed Elizabeth City County a short time later. The town of Hampton, established in 1680, became the largest town in Elizabeth City County, and was the county seat. In 1908, Hampton was incorporated as an independent city, and in 1952, the county and the former town of Phoebus in the county were merged into the independent city of Hampton.

Elizabeth City is one of the Commonwealth's Burned Records Counties. Its records were damaged and/or destroyed during the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, and the Civil War. A few early deeds, wills, orders, and guardian's accounts survive.

Fincastle:
Formed in 1772 from Botetourt County. Fincastle County (extinct) was named either for George, Lord Fincastle, Lord Dunmore's son; for John Murray, fourth Earl of Dunmore, Viscount of Fincastle; or, for the town of Fincastle, Virginia, which was named after Lord Botetourt's home in England. It became extinct in 1776 when it was divided to form Montgomery, Washington, and Kentucky (now the state of Kentucky) Counties. Some Fincastle records may be found in the Montgomery Co. Courthouse in Christiansburg.

Historic Fincastle, Inc., & James Early Cabin,
121 East Murray Street
Fincastle, VA 24090
(540) 473-3077

Kentucky: Formed in 1777 from Fincastle.
Abolished in 1780
Lower Norfolk: Formed in 1637 from New Norfolk.
Abolished in 1691.
Records are in the City of Chesapeake.
Nansemond:
Formed as Upper Norfolk in 1637 from New Norfolk County.
Renamed in 1642.
Records were destroyed in 1866.
Incorporated as the City of Nansemond in 1972. Merged with the City of Suffolk in 1974.

All records transferred to City of Suffolk. Records include: Marriage from 1866, Land from 1734, Probate from 1866, and Court Records from 1774.

County Court Records were destroyed in three separate fires, the earliest of which consumed the house of the court clerk in April 1734 (where the records were kept at that time), and the last on 7 February 1866. A few Fee Books have been found in the records of Sussex County.

New Norfolk: Formed in 1636 from Elizabeth City.
Abolished in 1637 and divided into Lower and Upper Norfolk Counties
Norfolk: Formed in 1691 from Lower Norfolk.
Merged with the City of Chesapeake in 1963.
All record were transferred to the City of Chesapeake. Some records may also be located in the City of Portsmouth. Records include: Marriage from 1866, Land from 1734, Probate from 1866, and Court Records from 1774.

Norfolk County (extinct) probably was named by Adam Thoroughgood, a local resident, for his native county in England.

The county seat was Portsmouth.

Princess Anne: Formed from Lower Norfolk County.
Merged with, and records transferred to, the City of Virginia Beach in 1963. The records include Marriage from 1724; Death from 1853; and Land, Probate, and Court Records from 1691.

Princess Anne County (extinct) was named for Anne (daughter of James II) who became Queen of England in 1702. The County Seat was Princess Anne. (Now Virginia Beach.)

Old Rappahannock: Formed in 1656 from Lancaster County.
It became extinct in 1692 when it was divided in into Essex and Richmond Counties.

The records were transferred to Essex County. Records include Land, Probate, and Court Records from 1656.

Upper Norfolk: Formed in 1637 from New Norfolk County.
In 1646, it was renamed Nansemond County for the area's Nansemond Indians. The county seat was Suffolk.

The county became the independent city of Nansemond in 1972, and, in 1974, Nansemond merged with the city of Suffolk. The entire area is now known as Suffolk.

Warrosquyoake: Formed in in 1634 as one of the original eight Shires.
Renamed Isle of Wight County in 1637. Records were transferred there.

Warrosquyoake County was named for the Warrosquyoake Indian tribe.

Warwick River:
Formed in 1634 as one of 8 original Shires.
Renamed Warwick County in 1643.

It was named either for Robert Rich, Earl of Warwick, a prominent member of the London Company, or for the County of Warwick in England.

Warwick County became extinct in 1952, when it became the independent city of Warwick. It was consolidated with Newport News in 1958, and took the latter's name as an independent city. Denbigh was the county seat.

Warwick is one of the Commonwealth's Burned Records Counties. County Court Records were destroyed several times, with the most destruction occurring during the Civil War. A Seventeenth Century Livestock Registry, one Order Book, and one Minute Book from the Eighteenth Century survive. It has the earliest records for Land from 1662, Probate from 1648, and Court from 1646.

(Records are missing from pre-Civil War times. Extant records are located with the City Clerk in the City of Newport News.

Yohogania:Created from the West Augusta territory in 1776. The county was ceded to Pennsylvania in 1785

JOHN Lee Esquire Will (transcript)
– I have original microfilm if needed:
+++++
"In the Name of God, Amen, I, John Lee Senior of Johnston County and Province of North Carolina being at this time tollerbly (tolerable) well in health and of sound mind and memory but calling to mind the mortality of body and that it is appointed for all men once to die do make and ordain this my last will and testament in manner and form following that is to say first and principally first of all I recommend my soul in the hands of God that gave it as for my body I commit it to the earth to be buried in a decent manner at the discretion of my executors but regarding my worldly estate with which it has pleased God to bless me with I dispose of in the following manner, Viz. In the first place I desire that all my just debts and funeral charges be fully satisfied and paid.
Imprimis:

I lend to my well beloved wife, Mary Lee this Plantation whereon I now live and all my personal estate for her to be possessed with and enjoy during her life or widowhood.
Item. I give and bequeath unto my son Robert Lee one negro boy named Seasser to him and his heirs forever.

Item. I give and bequeath to my son Edward Lee one hundred acres of land more or less in the Low Grounds of the Neuse River whereon he has cleared a plantation joining John Lee's line and a hundred acres of land lying in the Low Grounds called John Guion's (Green's) Field and seventy-five acres of land more or less lying on Mill Creek at the Bridge and one negro boy called Abel to him and his heirs forever.

Item. I give and bequeath to my son John Lee two hundred acres of land more or less in low grounds of the river whereon is a Plantation called the Cows Bones and one hundred acres lying in in Bear Hill joining of his own land and two negroes a boy and a girl called Charles and Licece to him and his heirs forever.

Item. I give and bequeath to my son Thomas Lee after my wife's decease or widowhood the plantation whereon I now live with the remaining part of the two hundred acres of land lying in the low grounds called Fredricks Land and part of a tract called Trapnals Land it being the tract joining the Plantation it being divided by a line of marked trees beginning at a Hickory Tree at the Mouth of Cypress Gut on the river and running by the line of marked trees to the back line and one negro man called Cuggo and a negro girl called Jenny to him and his heirs forever.

Item. I give and bequeath unto my son Frederick Lee one negro wench called Rachel to him and his heirs forever.

Item. I give and bequeath to my daughter Mary Ballenger one negro wench called Nice and the remaining part of the land called Trapnals Lands to her and her heirs forever.

Item. I give and bequeath to my daughter Sabray Green one negro girl called Brine and twenty pounds Prock to be paid out of my estate to her and her heirs forever.

Item. I give and bequeath to my grandson Shadrack Ingram one plantation containing two hundred acres of land more or less joining Richard Ingrams line and John Lee's line and three hundred acres of land lying on White Oak Swamp a Branch of Mill Creek and a negro girl called Judah to him and his heirs forever.

Item. I will that all remaining part of my personal estate after my wife's decease or widowhood to be equally divided amongst my children above named to be equally divided by my executors hereafter named and I do hereby appoint my son Edward and John Lee to be my hole and sole executors of my last will and testament utterly revoking and disannulling all other or former wills and testaments by me before made.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF: I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my seal this the 4th day of December in the year of our Lord One Thousand Seven hundred and Sixty Six. (1766)

John Lee signed his full name at the 'X' indicated, as was the way of signing documents at this time. Seal
Signed, Sealed and Delivered in the presence of us:
Richard Lees at the 'X',
Gilbird Hicks at the 'X'
Samuel Smith, Junior at the ‘X’
February Term 1768
Note: Will filed Dec 4, 1766, proved 1768.

As I hope you can see that I have NOT been lackadaisical in my Lee research for I am supplying my OWN research that I have done over the years.

Hi Jacqueli

As always, thank you for posting your research notes.

I’m just going to address

John Lee, Esq.

There is no evidence for parents.

I “think” you are saying: people, don’t close your minds to looking in various directions for his parents. DNA test results may need further interpretation and refinement, look at the paper trail .... (etc ... I’m para phrasing, of course !)

And I don’t think anyone disagrees, that’s a great point.

But right now, descendants of John Lee, Esq., who died in Johnston County, North Carolina, seem to have

“No parents known.”

So we’re good on Geni for this profile.

Erica Howton Hi!

No - you have it wrong - the discussion got off track to John Lee Esquire (or as AKA shows John Lee of Johnston) who is still considered a descendant of Col. Richard Lee, and as you pointed out, reflects no parentage on Geni, primarily because of the false narrative of an assigned Y-DNA Haplogroup by some Lee Surname Y-DNA projects that have stated an absolute for the Lees of Virginia line as Col. Richard Lee's Haplogroup, and one of the reasoning's behind the decision on Geni (and other internet sites) for the disconnection of his previous line as grandson of William Lee and Alice Felton that John Lee Esquire (or AKA John Lee of Johnston) is an orphan to some.

MY point is that there IS the false narrative being used as a device to accept or deny descendants of Col Richard Lee stating that there is a definitive Y-DNA Haplogroup assigned as Col. Richard Lee and that male line descendants should have this Y-DNA Haplogroup or otherwise considered 'Lee' wanna-be's - otherwise non-related to the Lee's of Virginia lines. This is not the case for there is not a definitive Y-DNA Haplogroup for Col. Richard Lee.

And that is the 'notice' because it is not a verifiable source to confirm or deny a lineage relationship being that there is no viable proof that of the Y-DNA or lineages for public scrutiny or verification, it is just what is being stated from a unverifiable source. In genealogy, sources need to be able to be verified as fact, proven. In the case of the Y-DNA Lee Surname projects and these statement, they cannot be verified and proven - so invalid. It boils down to opinion and speculation.

The fix would be to obtain Col Richard Lee's DNA by three unrelated or non-associated labs to the Lee Society and the individuals associated with the Lee Society that are behind (run/own) these same Y-DNA Lee Surname project(s) and same associated individuals that created the Z-DNA software for these Lee Y-DNA Surname projects that analyse the data and these same associated individuals that interpret the findings, and that these same individuals have stated that the Lees of Virginia lines are associated only with one Y-DNA Haplogroup, disassociating all other male Lee descendants that have a different Y-DNA Haplogroup (but a well documented pedigree) as they have defined and created the false narrative for such a purpose.

Col Richard Lee's DNA can be obtained - but must be obtained in a fair, unbiased manner and when that occurs, hopefully sooner than later - and IMO would put the end to all the guessing, speculation, mud-slinging, name calling, dissension, discrediting, dis-honesty ... because too many Lee family members have been affected, hurt, ancestry damaged over this practice of taking this bad Y-DNA Haplogroup information and applying it as factual evidence when it is not. It is BAD Genealogy practice to do so and to continue this false narrative detrimental to the genealogy community as a whole.

If a source, in ALL aspects, cannot be publicly verified, it is BOGUS. Period. That IS the case here with the statements regarding that the "Lees of

The only truth surrounding this FAKE news is that a couple of descendants of General Robert E Lee have one Haplogroup (which CANNOT be verified) and the other 80% of male Lee descendants with documented pedigrees have a different Y-DNA Haplogroup (can be verified publicly for majority through GEDMatch).

SO PLEASE - do try not to paraphrase what you may or may not think I am saying, I think my message is clear enough.

Thank you.

Absolutely you can speak for yourself.

For John Lee, his parents are not known. I do hope research makes for a consensus among his descendants, and look forward to their decision on that. We’ve already heard from one & we link in the Geni profile to the study group by descendants.

I’m sure they’ll let us know if the situation changes.

Jacqueli,

You said
> The fix would be to obtain Col Richard Lee's DNA by three unrelated or non-associated labs to the Lee Society

No. That would be a waste of time and money. The problem as you describe it has nothing to do with possible bias by different labs.

What you need is an un-biased triangulation of the results from any reputable lab(s), with an unbiased examination of the different pedigrees.

This is the normal procedure in a case like this. You don't need more. The problem is not the results. The problem is always the claims people attach to their results.

By demanding more, you are fueling the problem unnecessarily.

Justin Durand

Peace of mind is priceless.

It is not up to you or anyone to speak for the Lee family members who have been affected. And quite astonishing to imply that doing the right thing was costly and an inconvenience.

As I said prior, analyzing the Y-DNA data and doing comparisons outside of the Y-DNA Lee Surname projects promoting this Haplogroup narrative wrongly is impossible to do and why it is "UNVERIFIABLE" - that is why is it a false narrative and not a valid source or factual evidence of any proven .Y-DNA Haplogroup assignment to Col Richard Lee and his descendants. Period.

Where you can triangulate, why I am so confident in my Lee lineages as documented, is on the public DNA platform GEDMatch where you can go triangulate all the Lee descendants that have contributed their DNA all you want - I have tried to reason with that information here even on Geni - written even a narrative on this for John Lee, Esquire and gave to curators here - it was moot.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with obtaining the DNA of Col Richard lee regardless the cost or inconvenience - it has been done with other historic figures and should be done here in this instance also.

It is the practice of using what is being presented without verification that is bad genealogy, or as you suggested triangulate and analyze the YDNA data after the fact because the Haplogroup assignment to Col Richard Lee and the Lee descendants has already been done here on Geni, and other genealogy sites - disconnecting Lee family members from their ancestry - the fake information circulating from these Lee Surname Y-DNA Project websites stating Lee ancestors/descendants not having the "Ditchley" line Haplogroup are not members of the Lees of Virginia family lines - and this has been done without any questioning of the validity of the source. None of the data or documentation regarding this Y-DNA Haplogroup and living testers are publicly available to analyze - only what the project website managers show and state as their interpretations of the data which is analyzed by the developed Z-DNA software specifically ran on these same Lee Surname Y-DNA Projects - Dennis Lee and his group that are associated with the Lee Society.

SO since there has been such nonsense, lack of forthrightness, dishonorable behavior stemming from fake assignments of Y-DNA Haplogroups to Col Richard Lee and his descendants, it would be the prudent thing to do to obtain his DNA through labs that have no association to the Lee Society or the individuals associated with the entity to confirm the lines.

And it would be the prudent thing to do for genealogical sites to stop promoting the Y-DNA Haplogroup information as a source to assign Lee family members to whom they may or may not be their ancestors without verifiable proof.

Nothing more nothing less. That IS reasonable at this point.

So the "Normal Procedure" obviously cannot apply here because the all the information IS NOT AVAILABLE.

The only ones who would protest obtaining the DNA of COl Richard Lee would most likely be those who want to continue the dissension, for whatever reason - and that is just plain disrespectful to the right of all who wish to know their ancestry correctly. If they get away with this here, with the Lee family, where next? No family ancestry would be safe if the DNA connected to genealogy is misused as this, for monetary or personal gain?

It is shameful when DNA is being used to destroy and not reconnect family lines, as in the case here.

And all of us who have done our DNA and invested our time and money on our family trees, especially at genealogy sites like Geni - have invested our hard earned money and time to have our family trees correct, not for the information to be abused or destroyed. That too should be respected, not undermined.

Jacqueli, normal genealogical standards apply to everyone. The Lees are no different.

Your appeal to a special case scenario comes across as hype. If more information is needed to come up with a valid result, that is just part of the normal procedure. It can be done easily with targeted testing. You don't need extraordinary measures.

I think everything that *needed* to be said about this, was said three years ago.