Francois du Toit, SV/PROG - No certainty of this line

Hi Sharon,

This message is sent not in absolute despair because it is correct that profiles should be well researched, but in an attempt to point out a few issues with the "method" in which it is done...

First just another introduction on information and the "lack" of information: In my mind a lot of research was already done on all European ancestors and because it is not in the First 50 (FFY) years project (which you frequently quote) it does not mean that is not researched. :) Taking nothing away of the FFY project, which is quite accurate but unfortunately incomplete (because the information on parentage does not exist!).

Your main argument seems to be that Francoise was rather young (23 stated) to have been married and have had a child at that time - but my gut feel tells me that is not the case on average for a male to have had a first child. Is that the only argument and how did you reach such a conclusion?

But regardless, my issue is mostly on the method and if we take Francois(e) du TOIT as an example, I just want to point out that Pierre du TOIT and Marie ROUSELLE, had these children (Guillaume, Marie Anne, Marie Suzanne, Bruno and Francois Du Toit) - not disputed. When you make these cuts, then you must put back the information on those parents' profiles. I.e. it is not in argument that they have had these children, your argument is that there were another Guillaume and Francois and therefore there should be -after making cuts like these - 2 Guillaume and Francois profiles, of which one set is still tied to Pierre and Marie, and another set without parents as result of this cut. You have effectively deleted 2 of Geni's profiles!

I.e. you should look at the "method" of cutting as you are deleting information from Geni without replacement - Pierre and Marie, at the time of writing this response, now only have 2 children :(. Could you please add (also in future and looking backwards) back the missing children you left a gap with? This goes just as an attempt to point out with cutting or merging people in general that it should be done with replacement.

Hope my message finds you well as I appreciate your work and contributions (just not necessarily your method of "cutting" which can be improved, right? :) ).

Regards
Jan

I also agree that 23 is not to young to be married and have a child.

Delia did a great job with FFYP but it is also human to make mistakes. I do not say there is though. I do think a lot of new evidences and resources have been added since, as the genealogical people is growing at a fast rate.

Mooi dag.
Groete
Judi

Sharon Doubell - based on the messages posted by you, it seems you have not caught the gist of what I am trying to tell you - which is simply this: You cannot quote a site which does not have adequate research as a source for deleting profiles.

If "You cannot quote nothing as a basis for establishing a relationship." You'll have to delete thousands of profiles from Geni Sharon Doubell

I really don't understand why all my questions or replies get reported. I'm sure my statement was valid.

I was not picking a fight with anybody, I made a statement in reply to what you said. I think you totally overreacted. If I may say that without being blocked again.

I was merely pointing out that there are 1000s of profiles on Geni with no source documents attached and that if we remove one profile because of this reason, many others should/could follow.

Just asking, if a baptismal record is not considered proof what would be? DNA?

I'm asking because I've just added my grandparents' baptismal records and thought that that would be good. Its also names that repeat generation after generation and sometimes more than once in the same generation.

I' referring to "A baptism of a person with the same name isn't genealogically considered proof, especially when there are other candidates being baptised with that name in the same area." Made me wonder if my sources are good enough for the profiles or what else I would need.

Yes, I know, but how do you or anybody else know I'm correct with my research? I just want to be 100% sure what I'm doing on Geni is the acceptable standard.

Great, thank you.

I'm also not picking a fight Sharon Doubell I thought I just stated the obvious, that the method is not correct but obviously it fell on death ears and not understood by you. You also correctly pointed out this is a public discussion and I just want to add worth (regarding the method) to the benefit of all of Geni/future genealogists. I state it openly that I have no alternative agenda or motives other than we use the time/knowledge we have wisely and it is never personal to me.

That said, a few alarm bells were raised with https://www.geni.com/discussions/178061?msg=1200182

Specifically that you state French users "correctly" object to us as their descende/ants. Maybe that was just a slip of the tongue, for any such (French, German... European) user is not a genealogist in my books IF that is the general or individual's perception, considering their is a large Hugenot base here - not disputed, but I guess here there may be one or two odd apples you have been in contact with.

All RSA trees I have been honored to look at are over 90% descendants from Europe, and users should rightly be able to trace their heritage beyond the years 1652+ as it is well researched? Not by me haha, but those who have the details, I agree that you should prompt them to share their research here, if that is you intention - but I still strongly urge you to have in mind when you cut parents you are deleting information if you do not replace the profiles - how do I state this otherwise so that you can acknowledge you understand? Perhaps: If it was other people born in Europe and not setting sails for Africa, then descendants of those profiles should also have the opportunity to do proper research on those profiles. But I guess the moment you see this, you cannot win this argument :)

If you didn’t point out that Jan and I comment on the same discussions I wouldn’t have noticed it. But now that you have, I must say that I do agree with Jan on a few points. Have you ever considered that maybe we respond to the same questions because we ARE related and we do collaborate on Geni and fortunately for us you are working on “OUR” ancestral line, so it’s nothing personal other than we have the same interests.

After many years of experience I’ve learned that in ANY management type of position one needs to be able to admit that one can also make mistakes and be open to suggestions and criticism. Without this ability one becomes a dictator and ceases to be a leader.