Elizabeth Claiborne (Ludman) - Elizabeth Claiborne (Ludman)

I do see a source for her and added to the profile overview

From http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/g/r/a/Rebecca-R-Graham-WI/WEBSITE-0001...

Elizabeth Ludman (b. Abt. 1658)

Elizabeth Ludman was born Abt. 1658 in Virginia.She married William Claibourne.

Children of Elizabeth Ludman and William Claibourne are:
# Elizabeth (Mary) Claibourne (daughter of William Claibourne and Elizabeth Ludman) was born 1680 in King William Co, Virginia, died in King William Co, Virginia.She married Henry Fox Jr. on Abt. 1722 in New Kent, Virginia, son of Henry Fox and Anne West.

I think this is a different William Claiborne (b 1654) from Lt. Col. William Claiborne, Ill

Is Henry Fox Jr in the excellent compilation http://oursoutherncousins.com/CLAIBORNE%20FAMILY.pdf

I see Mary / Elizabeth # 47 as daughter of Capt William & Elizabeth / Catherine Dandridge but no further information

Of interest perhaps

http://www.jstor.org/stable/1922081

I had worked with this source (and its citations) for the Fox tree

www.brumm.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I2612&tree=Every...

What I'm thinking is we should spin of Mary Claiborne Fox into her own tree unless we can associate her with the Dandridge family better

https://www.ourfamtree.org/browse.php/Mary-Claiborne/p131324 has her in the same position as Geni tree Mary Whitworth

Getting to more direct researcher input, see this:

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/whitworth/1090/

Documentation is a lot to ask for in King William Co., where most of the records prior to the Revolution were lost in a courthouse fire in 1885.But sometimes it's possible to narrow the field by elimination, or sharpen the focus by triangulation.

The Mary CLAIBORNE who m. John WHITWORTH would have been b.abt. 1665, since the accepted birthdates for sons are 1687 and 1690.This date allows us to eliminate two candidates:

The Mary CLAIBORNE who m. (1) Robert HARRIS was b.abt. 1630, since she bore her first child in 1652.She later m. (2) Edward RICE, and she had one son by each husband to whom she gave the name "Claiborne," a sure sign of this lineage.This Mary CLAIBORNE can only be the dau. of Hon. William CLAIBORNE 1st and wife Elizabeth BUTLER, who were having their children in the 1630s and 1640s -- there were no other CLAIBORNE families in New Kent or the Pamunkey Neck at this date.THIS MARY IS TO OLD TO BE THE WIFE OF JOHN WHITWORTH.

Another Mary CLAIBORNE was b.abt. 1686, dau. of William CLAIBORNE 2nd and Elizabeth WILKES.This Mary is mentioned in her brother's 1705 will along with her dau. Elizabeth CLAIBORNE, who appears to be illegitimate.However, this same Mary CLAIBORNE is also said to have m. Henry FOX Jr., later the sheriff of King William. THIS MARY CLAIBORNE IS TOO YOUNG TO BE THE WIFE OF JOHN WHITWORTH.

He concludes

These transactions put John WHITWORTH near Cohoke by 1692, just after the birth of his second child, and makes it far more likely that his wife, the former Mary CLAIBORNE, lived at Cohoke rather than the more remote Romancoke, and that she was in fact the dau. of John CLAIBORNE 1st.

The preceding post to that one tells us where we won't find mention of Mary Claiborne

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/whitworth/1077/

I need to document the marriage of Mary Claiborne, daughter of William Claiborne and Elizabeth Butler, to John Whitworth.J.F,. Dorman's book CLAIBORNE OF VIRGINIA:DESCENDANTS OF COLONEL WILLIAM CLAIBORNE published by Gateway Press in 1995 lists the issue of the Claiborne/Butler marriage as William, Jane, John, Elizabeth, Thomas and Leonard.There is no Mary in the book nor does the text give the name John Whitworth, other than as a neighbor.Mary Bachelor's article on Claiborne does list Mary, but gives her husbands names as Rice and Harris.No Whitworth is mentioned.Assistance in documenting this marriage will be appreciated.

http://www.colonial-settlers-md-va.us/getperson.php?personID=I04464...

CAVALIERS AND PIONEERS; Patent Book 10 page 168
THOMAS WEST, 1615 acs. (N. L.), King Wm. Co., in St. John's Par; beg. at Capt. Nathaniel West, in Bull Sw; to Capt. Jno. Fox, on N. side of Bridge Br; to E. side of the Ferry Road; to Capt. Martin Palmer, by Col. Wm. Claiborn's line, in an old Indian field; near Capt. Thos. Claiborn; to Wm. Burrous' land, in Hollings' line; crossing the Long Br; to Jno. Higgason's lint; 23 Dec. 1714, p. 226. 7 Lbs., 5 Shill., & Imp. of 4 pers: Thomas Key, James Brown. Richard Wharton, Ralph Bowker.

-----

In other words, looks like William Claiborne d 1678 & his wife Elizabeth Wilkes lived near the Wests & Foxes.

I'm sold that Mary Clairborne Fox belongs to those parents.

https://books.google.com/books/about/Claiborne_of_Virginia.html?id=...

Claiborne of Virginia: descendants of Colonel William Claiborne : the first eight generations John Frederick Dorman, Claiborne T. Smith Gateway Press, 1995 - 836 pages

If one could be clever and get a view inside. This is useful

Thomas Claiborne (Thomas, William) d 1732 m Ann Fox, daughter of Henry & Anne West

https://books.google.com/books/content?id=WIQ7AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA25&...

So this tree is sourced from the Dorman book

http://latrobefamily.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I7962&amp...

I will use it mostly to straighten out Clairbornes. The PDF file is cumbersome

Remind me never to send you an email and then go off for a few hours! Holy cow! :^) The Ludman thing seems totally random. The "source" give no source. How is it different from just making something up and putting it out there?

I'm going to work my way through your subsequent posts now.

Well,the name of the wife of the 3rd William is uncertain. :). You'll wanting to move Mary Claiborne Fox up the tree to his sister, I believe the researcher / poster got that right. Dorman has a daughter Mary b 1705 for the 3rd William, much too late to be your gal

http://latrobefamily.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I7372&amp...

Why are we talking about Mary Claiborne when the question is why there is an Elizabeth Ludlam erroneously roped into the tree? Ahh... I think I can see you have been busy. Will check in tomorrow if I have questions.

Here's an interesting note that eliminates Mary Claiborne Fox from an out of wedlock daughter

http://latrobefamily.com/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I16103&am...

>The 1705 will of the 3rd William Claiborne includes reference to "sister Mary Claiborne's daughter Elizabeth Claiborne." His sister's daughter would not have the same last name unless his sister had married a cousin (Claiborne), or more likely, Mary was his sister-in-law and had married a brother, then deceased.

Private User you probably know by now I just fix it. :).

I know you have a Fox tree interest, and in fixing things, it helps to have a focal point (beginning and end). Otherwise fixing is indeed endless.

I'm documenting first, then will move around profiles, the generations are out of order.

Private User more or less complete

Private User So I’ve revisited the parents given for Catherine Elizabeth Claiborne

She is seen as “daughter of John Dandridge” In the Claiborne pedigree:

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/61157/46155_b289830-00046/1073...

Claiborne Pedigree, A Genealogical Table of the Descendants of Secretary William Claiborne of the ... page 47, number 882. But which John Dandridge? Cannot have been https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Dandridge-6 (1655 - 1731) who never left Oxford in England. And this wife married in Virginia supposedly. So - how?

I’ve disconnected from parents and locked relationships.

There are other issues with the Dandridge tree. Just found this interesting book page:

https://books.google.com/books?id=lTaFL7EwkikC&lpg=PA93&ots...