Victor Seyburn (Sepsowitz) - Date of Death

Hi, Jennifer here. I’ll go get my sources...I think my death year is wrong, I think that that might be the year that he applied for social security. I was literally frying latkes while trying to get a second to add info. I’ll go double check. But I pretty sure about the date of birth. I’ll check that. Are Susie and I related? Victor was my grandpa’s uncle and brought him to America. They weren’t from “Hungary” they were from Khust which was in the Austro-Hungarian Empire and ethnically they said they were from Hungary.

Ok so I must have been on Mars but I have a few examples for dates that vary widely! I have May 28, 1881 as d o b from a SS application which was made in 1960 which is why I had that accidentally as d of d wrong. But I also have a RI census card which states that his birthday was Jan. 4, 1885! So I will correct date of death but what should be done about d of b? There are 2 US censuses one saying abt 1880 the other abt 1881 without dates.

I’d show you but I can’t attach the images...

My death date came from the Michigan Death records. He was using Seyburn by then, As for his birth name, I found variations in different records, but most were Victor Seyburn (Sapsowitz), Sapsowitz was in some of the birth records for their children and his marriage. Sepsowitz was in the 1910 census

Hi Jennifer Rosenfeld Bass

It looks like Private User is connected to Victor somewhere through Victor's grandson's wife....

And I see you are connected somewhere through Victor's wife..

That is neat when you see things come together and two people have been trying to piece together the same branches and the pieces start fitting together.

Yes, I know what you mean...it's often easy to find the same physical place referred to by many names. Sometimes I've used the "About" section to try explaining the naming changes and country changes over time, or link to something that explains it better too.

So what date are we going to use for his birth?

John, I also see that you merged several of the files on my tree, can you explain? Do you work for Geni or just matching my tree up with yours?

I have all the census records for Victor but also some other documents

I also have a picture of his parents

Jennifer Rosenfeld Bass, No, I do not work for Geni. I am a volunteer curator here on Geni, although that may not have anything to do with helping to merge the duplicate profiles you added. I may have been browsing around at DNA matches to some of my family and come across the duplicates you added...I don't remember know exactly now. Glad I could help though!

It could be a tough one to find when he was really born versus the birth dates he used... That could be something to explain in the "About" section a little more perhaps. I know I've seen some of my wife's family's birth records from present day Ukraine so perhaps they are out there...

Woah woah woah, slow down John. I’m going to have to block you and Susie I think. I realize that trees can exponentially expand out, but I curate a tree that is truly just my family by blood or marriage. And when for example my uncle Dan gets his information Changed or you or others get to have the ability to alter, I draw the line. Everyone one of the family members in my tree all 1000 plus of them I either know or have one degree of separation from. I have made this tree to keep us connected after years of being asked to put my research somewhere where everyone could see it. Many of them who have joined would I think jump ship if they knew that someone who doesn’t qualify as a relative is inviting them to be a member of their tree and I fear that the damage has already been done. I’ve worked so hard for over 30 years and now it’s becoming an out of control train wreck. I don’t even know how to correct all that you have done. I’m so upset.

Jennifer Rosenfeld Bass I would encourage you to revisit Geni's pages at https://www.geni.com/worldfamilytree and https://www.geni.com/company/privacy for better understanding.

You are part of a tree of 118million profiles....some of which Private User or other already added years ago.

John, I understand the concept of a world family tree and I certainly debated that aspect of this site before I chose it, possibly a poor choice. But it should have been voluntary not involuntary to have strangers suddenly co managers on my family members. Also this site seems to have given collectors like yourself an understanding of family that is devoid of love, sentiment and most importantly human relationships. These profiles you talk about are my actual family members. People I know or their children and Grandchildren. Recent additions to my tree were made because I called actual human beings and asked them questions. In fact my tree was built originally by calling or visiting as many of my elderly relatives as I could throughout my life and talking to them about their family members who were gone and family history and stories. There are sections of my tree that are requiring clarification and I’d love to hear from people who know those branches but to start to fiddle with “profiles” of people you don’t know with no introduction or permission is wrong. You may think I don’t understand this site, but you don’t understand family. If she had known uncle dan for example she would not have added that birthday with out asking. Or she could keep her incorrect profiles separate. I have found he and his family attached to other trees on other sites so wildly incorrect it was almost humorous if it wasn’t so serious to me. Collectors don’t know enough personal history to make their trees come to life and only care about records, records that are often wrong or take an enormous amount of history to uncover or understand. Little things like having your grandma tell you a 100 times that her cousin had a hardware store in NY. I chose this site so that my cousin’s husband could add his family to his wife’s tree, not so that his cousins cousins ex husband’s brothers uncle could alternate my father’s profile.

I have uncovered files that have called into question long held truths and files that are so laughably wrong it brings a tear to the eye. You have to be more than a story collector like some or a file collector like others. You have to combine research with human contact and personal knowledge of individuals. People who are simply interested in exponential growth so they can link up with Charlemagne at some point or George Washington get a lot wrong both factually and of the heart

Jennifer Rosenfeld Bass, if you have found your uncle Dan connected to the wrong family elsewhere and want to prevent it from making its way here I can help put special curator notes on the profiles and call out some of the confusion on why two people are being confused. That is the great thing about trying to work out some errors you see elsewhere that spread like crazy elsewhere. Here we can get it straightned out and line things up so they don't mistaken.

Let me know if i can be of any further assistance or click on "Research" at the top and "Discussions" and there is a discussion near the top to ask a curator for assistance.

I'm here to help you make a better tree.

You're welcome

John

It is my understanding that Myheritage trees are not world trees and would keep it from being modified by others there. Although I do not know how you would get it back to the way you had it. Download a GED file from Geni to upload at Myheritage would include some of the errors, but I am not sure how much would be visible with the privacy of living people. My heritage has excellent free software that you can put on your personal computer which would definitely keep it private.

Thank you for hearing me out and if it were as easy as just switching sites I may have done that, but after inputting a thousand people and a thousand photos and invited and joined dozens of cousins I don’t have the strength to move it, and at least as much energy to get my living relatives on as it is for them as well as the memory of my loved ones that I do it. And already some of my relatives have been using my tree as a base for their relatives. It’s too far along. I’m glad to have the Golditch tree fleshed out due to Susie’s work, my dad loved Mortie and my mom is good friends with Rita. That’s work I don’t have to do thank you. At this point I’d just like to have some notice before attachments and adjustments are made to my tree in the future, permissions should be made to make any changes.

As for Dan, he was born in the same place as his younger brother, Bessarabia. The Orgheve/Telenisti area. He was a little bit nutty, and when he reached adulthood stared to report his birth place as various different places. New York, England, etc. But all records reported by his parents including in arrival in America are the accurate reports. It's the profile I found in ancestry that is the most upsetting. He, his wife, son and daughter are listed in the family tree of a woman in Texas. They have his daughter Gertie getting married, having a child and then dying in Kentucky. Gertie never married and never had children and died not long a resident of the Menorah House in Oak Park, MI. She never married in large part because she devoted her personal life to the care of her brother Sam who was not able to an independent adult. Before she died my dad (her first cousin) and their other first cousins had her inducted into the Jewish Veterans of Foreign Wars and had a little ceremony for her at the Menorah house. But this lady in ancestry who hasn’t replied to my (probably hysterical) messages, has both a 1920 and 30 census as proof. The census of Dan’s family when they lived alone and the one when they still lived with my great grandmother, grandmother and great aunt.

https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/21045687/family

Morty was married to my first cousin once removed, Esther Gilbert Liwazer before Rita. Today is their daughter, Marci Golditch Beneson's birthday. Marci is my second cousin and lives in Jerusalem, Israel.
You really should put some of your stories in the about sections of their profiles, although it is time consuming. I love reading the "abouts".

That is the goal, as you can see there is already an abundance of material with Max and once my tree work is mostly complete I intend to Dd the color. Lots of pics up already

Glad you are close with his children

I’m just now getting my grandpa Max’s tree in order and can’t wait to make contact with the Rhode Island branch who we last had co tack with in the 70s.

Jennifer Rosenfeld Bass

I see what you mean about someone mixing up Gertie Karo, (daughter of Daniel and Minnie) with the Ann Kerro Remaley (daugher of Samuel Kerro and Anna Penako) that died in 2007 in Kentucky..

Mistakes happen...and I often feel like mistakes are good...they lead to learning new things and making things better. The person that made that tree on Ancestry may be dead and will never respond...and it will probably spread to other click happy people's individual trees who can do whatever they'd like there :-)

You can easily see how she made a mistake like that...so I added Ann Remaley to Geni and made it a master profile. I also made Gertie Karo into a master profile. They now have their own separate profiles that can NOT be merged together...so they stay their own separate people.

If someone were to add that incorrect branch to Geni and it were to be attempted to be merged with either of the existing ones it would jump out as not having the same parents or spouses and somebody would think twice.

It's interesting too because the Gertie Karo you added...she died in 2005 and her obituary in Pennsylvania says she was formerly of Squirrel Hill? Did she have family there in the Pittsburgh area? And the Ann Kerro Remaley that died in Kentucky was born in Somerset, PA also not far from Pittsburgh? Interesting sometimes...similar name...similar place...

Hi again Happy New Year, yes all of Dan’s family is buried in the Pittsburgh area. His wife’s family is from there and it is possible that in her final years she moved there. But was here in Detroit almost until the end. One of Dan's nieces was at my house a couple days ago and we talked about them.

I have a question about master profiles. I may have need of using one. I’m assuming that someone like the actor Edward G Robinson would have a master profile. As it turns out my cousin Mary Ellen Rosen’s grandfather is first cousins with him and she had me build a tree for that side of her family off of her here on my tree. The younger generations aren’t complete but the connection for them is built. Also the supporting documents I post as photos in media along with pictures of him from their family archive.

Also I have two relatives that are married to first cousins and an uncle from one side of my family married to a cousin from another side and at the moment have them duplicated rather than one connected whole. I’d like to fix that.

Some of this affects Susie’s tree as well and I’m not sure if she has it correct or is unaware of it

Jennifer Rosenfeld Bass

Edward G. Robinson has a Master Profile here. Someone added him back in 2007.

To merge the duplicate profiles it's often easiest to view one profile and look at the address bar in your browser. Copy that big long number in the URL. Then browse to the duplicate profile and click on "Actions" and "Merge This Profile." That will give you a place to paste that big long number and hit search and then hit the compare button and it will show you the details side by side and ask you to confirm they are the same person.

You can do the same thing for the other duplicates you mentioned where close cousins married. There is also a way of doing it from the graphical tree view. Each person has a link for "more" and then "Move this person" and it copies it to a little window in the top corner. Then if you browse the tree somewhere else you can drag and drop his node on top of someone else and it asks if they are the same person or spouse, or sibling, etc.

I often add a duplicate and then merge them because it's simpler and i can see them side by side before confirming they are the same person.

Thank you I will try.

Which part of my tree are you talking about, Jennifer?

Morris Karo, my grandmother’s brother is married to Helen Seyburn my grandfather’s first cousin. Together they have Judy Karo (married to Michael Beltzman mother of Jonathan Beltzman). So currently if in the merged version Helen is listed on the Karo tree as Morris’s wife and Morris on the Seyburn (Rosenfeld) tree as Helen’s husband (and their descendants are also repeated, it is a redundancy. I have to check it. Have’t had a chance yet, just getting back in order after holiday vacation. That is why I asked to know how to merge the two if in fact they are doubled. Also one of my grandfather, Max’s and His first cousin Helen’s other first cousins Martha Winnet was married to another one of their first cousins. And that should appear as such and not doubled. I’ll look into that today. I hope.