Hugh Ross - Hugh Ross, The Jacobite

http://theses.gla.ac.uk/8562/12/2017AustinMPhilR.pdf

The Trents & Coutts were the merchant families implicated in the "child servants" from Scotland.

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So if I'm following this correctly, Alexander Ross "may" have been a "stolen" child from Scotland. ? Based on who / how he was transported.

Oh yes, Alexander Ross is an "important" historical American Ross, a founder. Although not a large family left behind.

New Jersey was a different group of New Jersey Rosses for the most part. Elder Reuben Ross correctly does not include them.
However there was Alexander Ross of Piccataway, NJ, who knew John Ross of Philadelphia.
Perhaps names traced in combination back to Ireland and Scotland can help some...which clan or group used these names the most? Alexander, Hugh, William, Reuben.
Another thing is all these Ross families got along with the English. Nice point. Not so usual with the Irish Rosses... Goes to their background in the old world. Who were they?

Stolen child? Maybe not in this case. Could have been planned...chain migration. Celia on Rootsweb, 2010, says a Quaker record reports Alexander Ross was raised by the family of the George Ross. Need that record. They were in the area. We will see.

Scottish Dhu: Elder Reuben Ross passed it on that the earlier Ross ancestors to Virginia were generally of a dark complexion "Scottish dhu".
Looked it up and it was a person, an elf of sorts, who was part wild but kind to children, of dark hair and had leaves for clothing. He lived in a woods near a small loch. Looked that up and it was 20.6 miles from Applecross, Scotland.
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghillie_Dhu)
That Reuben Ross even knew about it is a clue.

What a charming story.

“within the Gairloch and Loch a Druing area of the north-west highlands of Scotland ... “

Yes, I agree it had to have been a quite localized bit of lore.

Yes, they have interesting names in Scotland and I love how they say them. And it is quiet and still and stunningly beautiful with natural flower gardens in places.

Re: Now I am wondering if that third group considered themselves to be part of the Clan Ross while in Scotland.

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Please look more into this thought. Was Ross also a clan independent name ?

If we are trying to define what Clan Ross is today, perhaps this statement from Scotland gives a basic idea:
"Tain & District Museum and Clan Ross Centre acts as a point of welcome for all Rosses and septs of the clan who live in or are returning to Ross-shire."

This is found from an external link on Wikipedia, Clan Ross. Wikipedia is a little different than some sites and includes two branches of the Clan Ross so far: Balnagowan and Halkhead.

Which raises the question to me, what was the DNA of the O'Beolans? Who you and Maven proved were connected with the Clan Ross in another thread about the O'Beolans on Geni.com.
Incidentally, I noticed Wikipedia added the reference to Sir Robert Gordon with Fearchar, Earl of Ross. His book started with research in 1615-30. Whoever did that was practically shaking hands with the Earls of the time.

https://www.greatclanross.org/htext5.htm

https://www.geni.com/discussions/150244?page=3

https://books.google.com/books?id=Y8gwcgAACAAJ&printsec=frontco...

Here are some new references to name Ross and Hugh:

Name Ross:
The family name can also be of German origin; in German, das Ross (or das Roß) means "the steed" or "the horse", derived from Gaelic meaning "Horse Lord" or "Lord of the Horse" due to the righteous bond between anyone with the surname Ross and their relations to horses specifically when paired with the traditional Irish name Aidan (Aedan, Ayden, Aiden).

Name Aiden in above definition of name Ross:
"The name is derived from the name Aodhán, which is a pet form of Aodh.[2] The personal name Aodh means "fiery" and/or "bringer of fire" and was the name of a Celtic sun god (see Aed)..."

Meaning of name Hugh:
"Hugh [probably Gaelic: Aodh]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh,_Earl_of_Ross

Meaning of name Aodh:
"Aodh (/eɪ/; Old Irish: Áed) is an Irish and Scottish Gaelic male given name, originally meaning "fire".

Comments: It it goes back to Europe with Teutonic, the early dialect for Germanic. Teutonic was the foundation of many language in parts of Europe and Scandinavia.

"Teutonic Meaning:
The name Ross is a Teutonic baby name. In Teutonic the meaning of the name Ross is: Mighty horse."
http://www.sheknows.com/

The color red or fiery shows up as well in definitions of the name as a secondary meaning.

"Ross-shire (Scottish Gaelic: Siorrachd Rois) is a historic county in the Scottish Highlands."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross-shire

The first use of Rois was within Pyrois the fiery or blazen horse of the sun, in Greek mythology, of the the flying chartiot of Helios. (see above examples for comparisons.)
https://pantheon.org/articles/p/pyrois.html

What I enjoy is you’ve not only collected, you’ve thought about it, and applied the information intelligently to what can be so confused. Thank you.

:)

Thanks. Fun to work on.

The basic name for Ross seems to be horse with added meanings of reddish/orange and red rose. They are separate I think.

For example of the separation, the name Hugh (Aodh) means fiery, from the Celtic "sun god". Wikipedia introduces Aiden (Hugh) as being associated with the surname Ross ... symbolic of the fiery Hugh riding a horse named Ross. The Celtic "sun god" Aid/Aiden/Hugh escaped from the underworld to brighten the sky. To brighten the world from darkness was his achievement in myth.

And Pyrois is the name of the fiery (yellow and blazen) horse of the sun. Greek diety had fiery blond not Celtic reddish/orange. As one of the horses of the chariot of Helios they had only one purpose, to pull the sun daily acrossed the sky.

Feedback on this could be helpful.

Actually, the Aodh/Hugh "equation" seems to have developed under Norman influence in both Ireland and Scotland, when the local nobles were trying to find Norman equivalents for their favorite given names. Etymologically they are *not* related - they only *sound* similar. (O Corrain & Maguire, Irish Names, Lilliput Press, Dublin, 1990, reprinted 1992, 1995, 1997, 1999, 2005)

Appreciate that on Hugh. A lot of people wonder about that I am sure.

Most people maybe just need the meaning of the name. I have more on the origin if anyone wants more about that.

Summary --
Words for Place Ross in Scotland:

1. Hross ... Horse ... Viking/Norse
2. Ros ... headland ... Gaelic and Norman

Both hross and ros are good, but the Vikings were earlier and named it first:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross,_Scotland

3. Rois ... Ross-shire/Siorrachd Rois (Wikipedia) ... Gaelic meaning unclear in Scotland, perhaps a later meaning of woodland. See Ireland below.

Meanings In Europe For Nordic Ros:
Ros ... rose
Hros ... horse
Hrod ... fame
https://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Ros

Meaning In Europe For Irish Rois:
Hros ... horse
Rose ... with added Latin elements.
http://www.libraryireland.com/names/women/rois-roise-rose.php

Meaning Of Ross from Germanic/Teutonic:
Add one letter to Ros for horse and it is Ross for noble steed in Germanic. Add a knight's horse and the fame in the name appears (online translations). Earlier in Teutonic the source of many languages it was mighty horse.

Ros And Other Name Spellings For Ross:
https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=ross
Ross belonged to other groups such as these in above reference.

Comment: There are two branches of the Clan Ross on Wikipedia: Highland, Balnagowan (Rosse), and Halkead, Norman (Ros) -- having separate DNA (before intermarriage). We found a third family of Isaac Ross who mingled with descendants of Hugh Ross, The Immigrant, in NC and NJ, with a third DNA.

Is it only three Ross lines? I would have thought more.

You bet there are more, but most of them probably don't descend from the clan *heads*. Anybody who was a clan member could take the clan name as a surname, whether they were related to the chief or not.

Saw the comments and I just found this site with quite a few Ross coat of arms. And it gives an enhanced list of various Ross spellngs and origins.
https://coadb.com/surnames/ross-arms.html

This is quite a list. But will take a while to verify.
Adds a bit to the amazing amount we already have.

Your description of Clan is a little wider than some dictionaries. The dictionaries mostly require at least a perception of kinship (even when proof is not fully known). That was what I was going by until now. Also that reference from Tain, Scotland says the clan members would sometimes switch loyalty if the land went to someone else. What they actually did is good to know.

New rendition description of Clan is better for people today ... inclusive. Thanks.
A couple of new related things recently found:
Aine, the Celtic sungoddes of summer, sunshine and the sun (summer warmth and summer abundance) was sometimes represented as a red mare. Here we have sun myth of a red mare ... Irish/Scottish.
Second tidbit, family members of Kitell Flatnose Bjornsson, on some internet searches, are of dark complexion.
Happy holidays.

Happy new year, VL! And to all us Rosses.

Just wanted to leave this here for everyone, in case it helps.

It's an analysis of the Ross Y-DNA Project at Family Tree DNA.

http://thefryingpan.net/charts/ross-mrca-chart-reorganized.html

Several descendants of Hugh Ross, "The Immigrant" have tested & they fall into Matched Group 42.

One Isaac Ross, Sr. descendant has tested & he falls into Matched Group 12 along with several descendants of George Ross of Elizabethtown, NJ, Scottish Prisoner of War.

https://scottishprisonersofwar.com/george-ross-c-1629/

One kit lists Rev. George Aeneas Ross, M.A. as an ancestor. I was not able to verify the pedigree they provided. There don't seem to be any conclusive sources. Either way, they are not a match to either of the groups listed above.

There is another interesting group, Matched Group 53. It contains descendants of the Roses of Castle Kilravock in the Scottish Highlands. There are both Rosses & Roses in this group. It is unclear, though, exactly how they connect.

There seems to be an assumption, though, that this demonstrates a relationship between Clan Ross & Clan Rose and that any descendants of the Rosses of Balblair would fall into this group.

None of the pedigrees submitted by participants in this group demonstrate a connection to these Rosses, though.

So, basically, there is a very impressive number of participants in the Ross & Rose projects, but there is still no conclusive connection to these Ross Lairds. Or at least not one that I could flesh out based on the information provided publicly.

Would love to hear if anyone has any more information on any of these groups.

Thank you Private User