Hugh Ross - Hugh Ross, The Jacobite

Thanks Maven. I am all thumbs trying to keep up with you. It is interesting that the different so called branches of the clan Ross show up on DNA and can be seen. That may be where the future is.

We are being kept scientific, which is good. Lot's of DNA and sources will help if you are so inclined. That way I can retire back to woodcarving. I think we are in good care here from the looks of it.

I think that we are showing that the I group of Ross and the R group have different origins clearly.

You’re not allowed to retire until we finish picking your brains !

I’ve been filling in profiles in Elizabeth City County and connecting family friends fragments on Geni. George Wythe is a proving to be a good focal point; his own family unites Quakers with the traditional English planters and also Scots merchants (Wallace).

Lost my post. Let me try again.
I wonder if Ross DNA is Norse. They started in Ireland with the Royal House of Tara, sailed to Scotland, and one of them married a Viking Prince named Bjolan (Beolan) in the 800's. This Beolan and House of Tara Princess are the progenitors of the Abbots of Applecross, the Earls of Ross and the local Clan Gillanrias/Gillander. The clan at one point after the battles with the MaKays were down to 150 clansmen.
Don't expect to see all of this on our nice graph at Rossdnaproject.com but they obviously understand a lot about the clan.

I would like to see a comparison of Ross DNA, Highlander, Norway, and Iceland. The Viking progenitors went to Iceland after Norway. Can't wait but I am sure will have to.

Origins of R-M269 Diversity in Europe
http://www.norwaydna.no/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Hammer_M269_Dive...

http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/read/ROSS/2006-08/1156687959

This is fascinating. Old Rootsweb post alleges match of DNA of Isaac Ross of NC to George Ross of Con. and NJ. I think this George might be the Cromwell Prisoner to Boston in 1663 whose descendant was the older John Ross in Woodbridge, Middlesex, New Jersey, dcd 1764, who was a shopkeeper and owned the boat Hummingbird. His father seems to be John Ross lost at sea in Indonesia.
Our John Ross of Guilford was in Woodbridge in 1759 and in Granville, NC in 1760. In 1762 in Granville Isaac Ross, probably Jr. witnesses deed in Granville, NC, 1762. Isaac Ross was in Rowan Earlier.
This puts us back 3 generation before Hugh Ross the Immigrant with George Ross the Prisoner. Now this is a prisoner we can identify.
(Abstract thinking is subconscious.)
Anyway to get hold of this DNA pool?

Chain migration?

That's the trouble with R-M269 - it's too generic. Every known Western European group has some, and it takes deep-testing to find the subclades. R-M222 (a subclade of L21, which is a subclade of M312, which is a subclade of P311, which is a sub-subclade of R-M269) is found almost exclusively in (men with ancestors from) Northern Ireland, Lowland Scotland, and the Isles. It was originally associated with Niall of the Nine Hostages, until it was discovered that the subclade predated him and probably included his whole clan-group (or at least the majority of the male members). There is a specialized test just for it, and *it too* has subclades.

The next-largest Y-haplogroup in Scandinavia is I-M253, which in some areas (e.g. southern Sweden) even outnumbers R-M269. Its presence elsewhere tracks fairly closely to Nordic expansion (the "Vikings") and is usually suggestive - though never conclusive without some kind of paper-trail support - of Norse or Norman origin (the Normans being Norse at one remove). Note: the Finns are neither "Nordic" nor Indo-European speakers - and the majority Y-haplogroup in Finland and the Baltics is N, which is rare to very rare west and south of there.

The John Ross who was a Cromwell POW was settled in Berwick Maine

https://www.geni.com/projects/Scots-Prisoners-and-their-Relocation-...

I’ll look for his profile on Geni

N1c1, incidentally, is considered the "Rurikid" signature, and the historical Rurik (there seems to be a consensus that there was a person by that name who founded the Rus' royal dynasty) was probably born in Sweden of Finno-Ugric (probably F(nnish) ancestry. (This ties loosely in with the curious factoid that "Rus" as an early name for the country appears to derive from the Finnish "ruotsi", rowing way, alluding to the easy transport along Russian rivers. Was Rurik bilingual?)

Anyway, back to the Rosses.

Finns helped establish Russia. Even the name. I guess they could be called Vikings?
I am starting to like the possibilities of DNA for history buffs.

There were supposed to be some Cromwell prisoners in early Virginia. Like to find a list.

DNA:
Like to find another George Aeneas DNA just to make sure the Ross claiming to be from him really was.
Like to compare Isaac Ross, if we can find this DNA reported on Rootsweb, to the DNA of James P Ross. Looks like there were several similar ones to him on Rossdnaproject. Is that realistic? Find out if there is a connection to George Ross of CT and NJ (POW).

Could be a number Ross comparisons in several states of DNA if possible. If we are in the mix that could help us show we are clan related and answer that question.

There are two "Isaac Ross" results so far at the Ftdna.com Ross project.

Mr. Isaac Ross, b. 1794 and d. 1867 = E-M35 (not Scots, maybe German)

Isaac Ross (no dates) = R-M512, grouped under "George Ross b. c. 1629" (this is the probable "Scottish Prisoner" group).

R-M512 is NOT in the R1b group - it's R1a, indicating Eastern rather than Western European origin., but given that there was some spillover into Norway, we are once again looking for possible Vikings (or Normans) in the woodpile.

That's a start, Maven. I am delighted.

So some of the Ross name but not near term related are in the same places as the Scottish prisoner group? A Ross was a Ross. That's on land, e.g Alexander Ross, Physician of Middlesex, NJ. The 1st Isaac started in Middlesex? At least he did move to NC.

Everyone thought Isaac was a brother, I expanded it to a cousin removed based on his associations with the traditional parents. Now I don't know who he was related to way back, except that the New Jersey Ross families were good folks. Glad I came on this site. Good info.

It's never safe to assume that all persons with the same surname are related - most of the time there are multiple families who *just happen* to share a surname.

German "Ross" = "horse". Not even the same meaning or derivation!

Good point.
Getting back to our Vikings, they probably named the place Ross before anyone. Wikipedia now suggests the possibility.
Viking word for horse was hross. I think they and the Germans both inherited the name from earlier Teutonic.
Pretty cool name, mighty horse for Viking or a knight's noble steed from an online German dictionary. Or nobility itself.
Even the Halkhead Rosses said it was red hair, or someone who looked like a horse...was the horses flowing mane red?

One thing that has to be done is give some direction for the followers of Isaac Ross if we can. Isaac started in Woodbridge and moved to NC according to Wright. We know he was not related to Hugh Ross, the Immigrant (or to Alexander Ross, Physician of Middlesex) from the astute reading of DNA by Maven...Thanks. This is the DNA graph:
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/rossdnaproject/default.aspx?se...
The graph has Isaac Ross related to George Ross, (Cromwell prisoner). And I have read a post that said several Isaac Ross descendants took the test and showed the same DNA match.
Earlier I said John Ross, the shopkeeper, of Woodbridge was probably son of John Ross, lost at sea in Indonesia. And Essex tradition is John Ross of Woodbridge was from George Ross, the prisoner. Some old charts 15 years ago had John Ross of Woodbridge and John Ross lost at sea as one person by the Essex Ross researchers. But Familysearch had them as two.
John Ross, the shopkeeper, of Woodbridge was born, the estimates I think about 1705 or something. And they have him back person by person to George Ross the prisoner of Cromwell on several trees. Isaac Ross who started from Woodbridge was born 1708.

On Familysearch they have George Ross, married to Sybille Denholme, in Edinburgh as father of George Ross, POW of Cromwell. This George Ross by a record had a son George Ross born in Edinburgh in 1629. The DNA graph on our chart has a Ross from Edinburgh and a Ross from a town in Dundee in the lower Highlands.
Happy holliday to all.

1. Here is something Michael should like. Dr. Alexander Ross refers to himself as Esq. - 1775. Does not say Laird. Dr. Ross content to be Esquire. On his will Alexander Ross wants John Ross of Philadelphia to give to sister Jane some money John Ross is holding. They were in contact with each other.
John Ross of Philadelphia received a letter from Scotland about the Balblair property. He was pursuing it. You can fill in the rest. No change.
2. Another Alexander Ross was in New Jersey from Gallowayshire, Scotland, did 1766. That is low and left on the Scotland map. He still owned 2 farms in Scotland. Chain migration? Four people with either DNA or a record from the Lower part of Scotland...Isaac Ross?

Thanks Erica and Maven. Every Ross on this line should thank you.

And I thank you. You’ve opened up brand new vistas of Ross to peruse. I am hopeful we’ll be able to prove / disprove my Ross line into the Giles County line, and from there into to the Elizabeth City County line. A huge break for me.

Sure would. I might have seen reference to DNA for William Ross of Martin.
And am looking for the land grants for Rev soldiers and families from NC to Tennessee.

Found a Ross DNA site that has James P Ross and George Aeneas Ross. Included below is a partial list of their reported ancestry:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cherietree/RossFa...

Participant 221659:
"James Ross Sr, b 1715, Ireland d 1 Nov1789, Rowan Co., N.C. Married Mary Woods.
James P. Ross, b 1741, Antrim, Ireland d Oct 1809 Giles Co., TN Married Mary Mitchell.
Robert Ross, Sr. b 1775-1780, Guilford Co., N.C. d 30 Apr 1849, Pope Co., Ark. Married Mary Dickey.
Robert B. Ross, Jr., b 1815, Tennessee, d 1840 Pope Co., Ark. Married Mary..."

Participant 212705
"Rev. George Aeneas Ross: b. 15 Feb 1679, Fearne Parish, Easter Ross, Scotland; d. 18 Nov 1753, New Castle, DE; m. Joanna Williams, b. 1689, RI, d. 29 Sept 1726, New Castle, DE.
David Ross: b. ca. 1706, New Castle, DE; d. ca. 1745, Albany, NY; m. Ann Adams, d. before 12 Feb 1731, New Castle, DE.
Robert Ross, Sr.: b. before 12 Feb 1731; d. before 10 Feb 1803, Pickaway County, Northwest Territory (OH).
Robert Ross, Jr.: b. ca. 1752; d. before 21 Feb 1805, Pickaway County, OH; m. Lettice Spillman, b. ca. 1760, VA, d. after 5 Sept 1805..."

Who is Robert Ross son of David Ross I presume?

Yes, I would read it that way.

Did you see comparisons of the Francis Ross lines with the James P. Ross lines?