Hugh Ross - Hugh Ross, The Jacobite

Here we go. William Mallory, of Elizabeth City

William Mallory born 1666 and his wife, Ann settled in Elizabeth City County, Virginia where their eight (8) children were born. William Mallory died 15 February 1719 in Elizabeth City County, Virginia. In 2005, William Mallory's 7th great grandson donated FTDNA test kit #44196 for Ydna testing

That was from http://www.vioarc.com/ftm/rm/rogermallory.html

So even though his will lists 4 children, there were 8, and someone knows about them.

https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-1-468533531-1-167/elizab...

Lists Elizabeth (no spouse) with same dates as Elizabeth Ross

http://www.vioarc.com/ftm/rm/roger%20mallory%20outline.pdf

Lists the Ross children of Elizabeth daughter of William Mallory including Mallory Ross as son, husband Francis Ross, also three daughters surnamed McGuire, and no Ann Bean. There is Ann McGuire.

Couples often named someone after the surname of the brides father. Elizabeth Ross having a grandchild Mallory on her will shows the connection of the families. And she had an Uncle Mallory in England. She was most probably a Mallory. And she received money from her uncle Mallory in England. Add to that John Mallory in England says on his will that his wife is to give some money to the Children of his brother William Mallory near Jamestown. Elizabeth Ross gets a legacy from Uncle Mallory in England, Elizabeth was one of William Mallory's children. Doesn't say to anyone else. I like that.
Why Elizabeth was not by name on the will needs explained but I consider that after the evidence Elizabeth was a child. Not everyone was always mentioned on the will.
Maybe her name was Elizabeth Ann Mallory or it had something to due with the Mallory and Ross incident, who knows.
But I do like the sound Mallory and Ross.

You are moving so fast I am wearing out with my disability. Glad you are on it.

I think the Mallory DNA project is likely a reliable source, and they did beautiful reports on their family history, we're almost there. There were four "older" children not named in William Mallory's will extract. !!!

We may find them in Ann Wythe's estate, or now that we have the names of all eight children and their spouses, their estates, etc. AND we have DNA to compare (if anyone did atDNA ....)

We've also found something important about Elizabeth Mallory; a first marriage. So now we can look for McGuire and those children.

"Ann Bean" is not named Ross in the will or court pages. Now we know why.

Very exciting day. As you said, the Mallory's are amazing.

Thanks, this is amazing.

More work needed to document and prove it all out. But wow what a breakthrough

Some resources for Mallory, Ross, (more) listed here

https://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Associated_Families

I think there’s a mistake here by Boddie.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000070685891851&

The Ann Bean who witnessed William Mallory’s will in 1719 should have been at least 21 years old, but the Ann Bean who was Elizabeth Mallory’s daughter could not have been born until after about 1712, if she was born say 1694.

I believe this Bean couple are her in laws (parents of her husband), which makes them much better candidates for the hog rustling slander - one would hate to think he took his grand daughter to court about it.

I think the revised Hugh Ross has plenty of reason to stay as son if David Ross and Margaret Stomach.
As stated first, 1781 is not a birth date at all but someone's sasine inheritance of land date, and is so designated by Reid.
And second, Reid's books, who is a Botanist, says very little about the Balblair Rosses and gives no source for his order of the children. Thus Reid's book though old is not a primary source. Reid knew something about Andrew and George so Hugh about whom little is known was last. Although I think he did know something. I wish we knew from where to review it.
Third, an actual primary source from the words of Rev. Ross, son of Adam Ross and Margaret Stomach, contradicts the order of children. Rev George Ross said "eldest" brother. We can't get younger brother Hugh from that?
Fourth, the father of William Ross of Martin County, NC, though misidentified in recent years, has been around for many years, even on this site. When the people look right, and the dates look wrong, it is easier to change the dates.
Fifth, some others from Balblair were in America as explained in this discussion. There is more on that.

Going back to the report of Roger Mallory and his descendants. What a surprise source. The dates look terrible but the information seems good. We have the will of John Ross of 1758 and he has a brother James. And he talks about cousin Mallory Ross. Most probably children of Francis Ross and Elizabeth Mallory.

The Mallory tree is working wel, I think we can continue that Ross line down. I believe there might be Mallory Ross and Cheeley Ross (!!), sons of Mallory, son of Francis Ross. I found an ancestry tree that has them (with wrong parents for Elizabeth).

It's not just the uncertainty about the dates in Scotland and the sasine dates being taken for birth & marriage dates. It's two other issues:

- there is a record of David, probably son of Hugh Ross in Balbair, giving sasine in 1701. When "our" Hugh is not in Balbair, he's in Elizabeth City.

- more importantly, the DNA does not match.

Descendant of Rev. George & descendant of James P. are in a broad group that is very frequent, and have enough in common to say they shared a common ancestor ... A long time ago. Look at the spreadsheet and compare column by column, the values entered for each marker. You will see that there are at least 15 columns where the values are different. If we compared kits using the utilities on GEDmatch for example, and the visualizations they have available there, we'd see it more graphically, perhaps.

They do not have a recent common ancestor.

And NASA has studied these families. !!!

I thought this was a personal site. No, it's an official archeaology project.

https://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Associated_Families

https://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/crgis/images/d/db/Ross_Family_Tree.pdf

DNA aside...can't alter that...We have our papers and our opinions from those papers. Some saw a family relationship between Isaac Ross of Middlesex, NJ, William Ross of Martin, NC, and James P Ross of Rowan as brothers, sons of Hugh Ross the Immigrant. That's a start and a great observation. I think however as cousins to various degrees. They certainly did live in the same places. How DNA might Impact needs more data I should think. I am sticking with what I know or can find.
Back to the papers. Reid writes about a Hugh Ross who is said to be son of Adam Ross and Margaret Stomach. It seems to have something to do with a sasine (inheritance of land) record and a Hugh Ross and his son David are mentioned. Not much there. The rules on age of inheritance in most all situations were very strict, age 21. For David the son of Hugh to be involved he would be 21 at least. That causes a problem of ages as the sasine inheritance date is 1701. And 1701 minus 21 is 1680 at best for David. Add another 20 years or so for Hugh, and with this you get a possible brother rather than son of David Ross, 2nd of Balblair. Not much there to go one.
But Reid must have had a source. Anyone knows what that might be?

From http://newsarch.rootsweb.com/th/read/ROSSGEN/1999-10/0939932143

> The book, "The Earls of Ross" says on p. 36 that : Andrew, younger
> son of George Ross, fifth of Balmachy, very probably became Andrew,
> first of Balblair who was father of: David, second of Balblair, parish
> of Fearn, 'notary'(sasine 15th April 1678), married margaret Stronach,
> 'his spouse' (Sasine 8 Jul 1681), 'relict' (13th April 1710). They
> had: Andrew, George, Hugh, Elizabeth. ... Hugh, 'third son' who was
> probably father to David, 'son to Hugh in Balblair' (Sasine 19th
> August 1701).
>
> I am not sure about the dates included as 'sasines.' ...

(answer)

I think the dates mentioned in connection with the term sasine would be the date of the sasine in which the inheritance or other transfer of the title to land was confirmed by the relevant court. For example the reference to the date 1710 in connection with a "relict" would probably an order from the court relating to an interest in the land, possibly a life or widowhood interest, passing to the widow (widows often being referred to in legal documents as "relicts"). So the 1710 date probably means that David died that year or perhaps a year or two earlier. His marriage to Margaret Stronach may have been around 1681 with some sort of marriage settlement or trust approved by the court that year. Sasines are not always for inheritance of property but can also be for property settled in trust under marriage contracts or simply for sales or even mortgages of land as, as I understand it, there was no system, other than through the sasines recorded in the courts for registering title to land.

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I wonder if they left a marker or something on that site. Great archaeological dig of Hugh's 50 acres.

Thanks for finding the exact words. I had been going mostly on what Fran Bumman quoted about it on Rootsweb.

I believe NASA would be helpful if a visit was planned; a cousin works with them in northern Virginia, and they seem wonderful locally. Plus this must have been an exciting project with actual finds.

From https://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Ross_Site

The Ross family were subsistence farmers, making a living farming their tract but remaining relatively poor. Artifacts and structural remains identified in 1993 indicate a very simple lifestyle, with inexpensive locally-made goods and a small dwelling. Ceramic kitchen artifacts helped date the site to 1720-1745.

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Which family are we looking at in the 2nd generation, have you figured that out?

This is amazing

https://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/crgis/images/a/aa/1993-09-24_-_Langley_R...

I answered my own question: it's the Francis Ross + Elizabeth Mallory family.

I will try to be less wordy. The 8 July 1781 date is someone's inheritance date. I thought the Colonial families of Philadelphia said it referred to the date Margaret was mentioned as David's wife. Marriage could be any time before that in their terms.

That’s my understanding. I’ve been trying to wrap my head around sasine and it is the date a property agreement is registered. So it is always after the event it might reference. We don’t have a marriage contract to refer to for example.

Another researcher wondered if some lived off the property and those that managed it were living in the dwelling.

2nd generation: There are a number of wills with mentions of cousins and brothers. Cheeley Ross as you suspected is in there a couple of times. Patterson's summary of the site online helps a lot. He was a pro and knew what to look for.

Not everything about Elizabeth City is on the same abstract. Familysearch has several in their library system. And there is microfilm under Elizabeth City. But a lot was lost or burned. Thank goodness for the Wills.

Patterson has a ? Son as the father of Mallory Ross, but we only know of two sons - James & John. How do you feel about provisionally placing Mallory Ross (and line continued) under John, who stayed in Elizabeth City? Or would it be better to follow him with a ? son for now? Elizabeth Ross was explicit in saying grandson Mallory Ross.

Sorry, most everything is under Hampton now not Elizabeth City anymore. Wished they had more.