Sir Roger Corbet, Kt. - The Corbet Mess and the Visitations of Shropshire

I think Alice was a Lakyn, I remember seeing that name before

Don't forget about Isabel the she Wolf of France, that's Edward ll & Hugh Despenser

Hatte, when I want to learn about pieces of history, I focus on some aspect, and read all about that. All the pieces fit together eventually.

Lately my passion has been the Cousins War; I read several books on the War of the Roses and now I am on a biography of Richard III.

Because it is just too boring to read textbooks. Better to focus down.

Subjects with which, over the years, I have been obsessed: the Norman invasion; the Black Death; the Peasants Revolt; the White Ship Disaster; the civil war which followed it; John Lackland; John of Gaunt; the Cousins War; Owain Glendwr; Rhodri Mawr; Edward I, especially concerning the Scots and the Welsh; Strongbow and the invasion of Ireland; the Viking raids.

Etc.

So other than the fact that I did actually study medieval history, I use the Swiss cheese approach to deepen my understanding.

Aha. There was an Ida somebody who was Sir Robert's first wife, and Maud de Arundel was his second. I wondered why those sons of his were born so late. (Matilda/Maud should be about ten years younger than she is, I think.)

Joan who married Owen de la Pole would be Robert and Ida's daughter, then.

Here's Edward ll blogspot (as I have no patience for actual books)

http://edwardthesecond.blogspot.com/2007/02/ancestry-of-edward-ii.html

Which of the Jane Kynaston's married Thomas Corbet, son of Thomas of Lye and Jane Burley?

Sir Roger Kynaston, of Myddle & Hordley

cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/5590/BLEDDYN%20AP%20CYNFYN%2038(A3)_131.png?sequence=4&isAllowed=y

Looks like the one who married 2) Llewd 3) Edward Sackville

Erica, Bartrum can be hard to get used to, in his handwritten notes. That doesn't say Llewd. That says Ieuan Llwyd. He is the son of Daffyd Llwyd.

This Sir Robert Sir Robert Corbet, Sheriff of Shropshire is sometimes said to have married a Katherine Le Strange, (she can be found on Tudorplace, with a C, shoved in under one of the earlier John Le Stranges), but there's a problem with that: it makes Joan and Owen first cousins (because Owen's father married Catherine's sister), and the Church was very opposed to such close marriages.

Tudorplace also plugs in the merchant De La Poles of Hull, Yorkshire(!) - who probably *don't* belong there.

Maven, I can't speak to the particular marriage you mention, but I can tell you that the Welsh tree is FULL of fairly close cousin connections. I don't actually know why; whether the Welsh didn't care about the rules (highly likely) or the Church dispensed permission freely.

But I know it to be so from the genealogies. They connect and reconnect continually.

It may be so that the Marches followed suit.

Tudorplace is not particularly trustworthy, either, so there's that.

I think "Ida", whoever she was, is a more likely candidate.

Ida was definitely a wife on a source I saw 2 hours ago & have now forgotten but probably our whosis woman whose chart I'm sticking on profiles. So far that chart is doing well by me, the Bartrum cross references perfectly

I am so pleased to see my Bartrum trees holding!

Except for Ela.

I think I found the problem: there were two of him. One under Corbet of Caus, who married Catherine Le Strange but did NOT have a daughter Joan, and one under Corbet of Moreton, who *did*, by a first wife of uncertain identity (but she wasn't a Le Strange).

I am BTW merging "8 siblings" Sir Robert Corbet, Sheriff of Shropshire into Robert.

As for Ela, she was little Gruffydd's wife for about two years (c. 1307-1309). Then he died and she lammed it back across the border and into marriage with James de Ferrers (or Perrers) "Ela married James de FERRERS on Dec 1309 in Groby, Leicestershire, England." http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hwbradley/aqwg167...

Since she was no longer in Wales or married to a Welshman, and had had no little Welsh children, the Welsh genealogies (and Bartrum) lost interest in her.

That James de Ferrers should be around here some place, lots of Audley marriages

https://famouskin.com/ahnentafel.php?name=31960+robert+de+ferrers

He doesn't seem to be in the studbook. Does that mean the identification with Groby is erroneous? (It did seem pretty far across the country to run to from Wales.)

https://books.google.com/books?id=kjme027UeagC&lpg=PA148&ot... Plantagenet Ancestry 2nd edition page 254 has Ela's 2nd & 3rd as James de Perrers and Peter Giffard, Knt.

I think this has been updated. Double check for mythical James of Groby though.

Re Bartrum and Ela:

It's not actually Bartrum who is uninterested; it is the compilers of the medieval Welsh genealogies.

It is just so sweet of you, Maven, to think its because the union bore no fruit!

Nope. It's quite simply that she is English.

This is a common trait of the Welsh genealogies.

English sources are even worse with the Welsh.

When profiles differ from Bartrum, when I link to him, I like to put a note in explaining things.

I don't want them to get over corrected.

Here's a double check for Margaret de Edrington, quotes from Complete Peerage and explains how she's a double cousin to herself or something

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jwebe...

----

I looked at a few more "descent of Nicholas de Audley," they've got Ela's 3 marriages with the names of the second & third garbled as in Plantagenet Ancestry.

The consensus is running in favor of James de "Perrers", so far. I don't know exactly what to make of that.

Location doesn't work for the Perrers. Location is perfect for the Ferrers of Groby, who married the Audleys, a lot. On the other hand, where is James ? Maybe his first name is garbled also?

Peter Giffard Knt is easy to figure the mistake - that was her mother's name. So an uncle or something.

And everyone hand writes like Bartrum. :)

Rootsweb takes the Visitations much too literally and misrepresents the very generations we started out discussing, BECAUSE the Visitations got them all wrong.

And once again Roger Corbet, younger brother of Robert, is erased from existence. But the legal records have both of them.

That's the trouble with a family that has as many branches as the Corbets - one is at constant risk of misidentifying one member with another of the same name in a different branch (or even a more distant relative in the *same* branch*)>

I need to go get some sleep :-)

Indeed. That brought in yet another Robert Corbet I don't see on the chart

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=jwebe...

I am so glad to see this all get wrassled with. I've been working on the Corbets from the Welsh end, but that doesn't really begin to touch the core of the mess.

I think this is one of the problem points - gets back to Maven's Mallory's

Robert of Hatherton Corbet

Suddenly the Salops Corbet family is in Cheshire?

The Breretons are hugely in Cheshire, see Ormerod.

And this is both Alice & Elizabeth Brereton? And my magic chart misses the Cheshire line entirely?

I think we need to look at Ormerod now and sort Mallory / Corbet / Brereton in Cheshire, because I believe the Kynaston marriage, and that was not Cheshire, right?

In other words, we are now "missing" a Peter who went north or was from the north.

Found a later Alice Lacon married Corbet:

From http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2002-05/...

Sir Thomas LACON b 1477 d1533 Willey,Salop and Maria CORBET of Moreton Corbet, Salop. have a daughter:

Alice LACON b abt 1533 Willey,Salop d 8 May 1573 Worthen, Salop. She married William CORBET.

Their son was Thomas CORBET of Aston Co. Salop married Elizabeth WILLIAMS, daughter of Thomas williams of Willaston, sheriff of Montgomeryshire in 1560 and of Salop in 1582.

Their daughter Is Ann CORBET. Richard GRIFFITHS (Recorder of Powys) d1613 m Ann CORBETT b 1Nov 1568, Shropshire Richard GRIFFITHS (attorney)b 1605 d10 May 1685 Glanhavren,