Trader ... Hughes - Cleanup

Started by Justin Durand on Tuesday, July 18, 2017
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band went to the Chaouacha village under pretense of smoking peace calumet treacherously attacked their hosts killed the great of the Chaouachas and several of his family and enslaved persons including the great chief's wife An English trader Hughes visited the Natchez at about the same time and subsequently descended the Mississippi where he was apprehended and as a prisoner to Mobile but afterward liberated On his way to Carolina however he was killed by a Tohome Indian

Natchitoches Grande the same year The English trader Hughes visited the Tunica in 1715 and they sang the calumet to him from which it would appear that they had not as yet adopted all the animosities of the French along with their friendship When the first war with the Natchez broke out however in 1716 this tribe furnished an asylum to the La Loires and Penicaut after their escape and according to the latter their great chief was barely restrained by Davion from killing three Natchez who arrived soon afterward to induce him to

Ok, so...what happened? Are we giving up on the search?

We're all quietly pondering what we know.

If there were a quick and easy answer it would never have become a problem on Geni.

We know the earliest trading posts in what is now Amherst county were established 1710 to 1720. The earliest land grants on Harris Creek and the Pedlar River were in the 1740s. They included grants to Hughes (1748), Floyd (1746), and Davis (1749) as we would expect. The only Hughes grant was to Stephen Hughes, a descendant of Rice Hughes but that grant was on Pedlar River not Harris Creek.

http://www.directlinesoftware.com/Pool/amherst.txt

This Stephen was probably either Stephen Hughes or Stephen Hughes. Not sure which but someone else might be able to sort it out.

And that's pretty much where it ends for now.

If I had to vote on which Hughes for the land grant, it would be Stephen of the Quaker line. Part of what is thought about the success of the Trader Hughes post is that Quaker families who got along with native peoples were in the area. And Henrico origins for the other Stephen doesn't resonate with migration patterns.

Though I haven't been a contributor, I have most definitely been a follower of this discussion among others. I am amazed at all of your dedication to this project and the others that you contribute to regularly. Just want to say thank you my friends, to you all and I'm proud to be just a small part of this. Some day in the future, this history will be appreciated and all of you will be recognized for the outstanding contributions you have made.

History, both good and bad, must be recorded, even in it's most seemingly insignificant form, otherwise we will continue to make the same mistakes over and over... Thanks for your dedication.

Thank you so much its our mission to help everyone as much as possible many thanks again glad your apart of it all.

Yup, that's where we started

And look how far we have come...Perhaps no final resolution but much clearer than the mess of fantasy it was before.

they are the same in my opinion

Who is the same? Stephen Hughes and Trader Hughes?

Relationship to me
Capt John Rice "Trader" Hughes (1628 - 1718)
husband of 1st cousin 1x removed of wife of 8th great-grandfather of husband of 11th cousin 1x removed
Nicketti "Sweeps Dew From The Flowers" "Native Line" (1624 - 1680)
wife of Capt John Rice "Trader" Hughes
Cleopatra "Native Line" (1596 - )
mother of Nicketti "Sweeps Dew From The Flowers" "Native Line"
Chief Wahunsenacawh aka Powhatan, "Native Line" (1545 - 1618)
father of Cleopatra "Native Line"
"Matoaka" "Rebecca" Pocahontas, "Native Line" (1595 - 1617)
daughter of Chief Wahunsenacawh aka Powhatan, "Native Line"
Thomas Rolfe "Native Line" (1615 - 1680)
son of "Matoaka" "Rebecca" Pocahontas, "Native Line"
Jane Matoaka Rolfe, "Only Child" "Native Line" (1650 - 1676)
daughter of Thomas Rolfe "Native Line"
Colonel Robert Thomas Bolling (1646 - 1709)
husband of Jane Matoaka Rolfe, "Only Child" "Native Line"
Jane Rolfe Bolling (1675 - 1714)
daughter of Colonel Robert Thomas Bolling
James Clack Jr (1698 - 1757)
son of Jane Rolfe Bolling
Jane Clack (1721 - 1792)
daughter of James Clack Jr
William Thornton (1751 - 1837)
son of Jane Clack
Hannah Thornton (1783 - 1867)
daughter of William Thornton
Thomas Alexander Byrd (1818 - 1909)
son of Hannah Thornton
Samuel William Byrd (1843 - 1892)
son of Thomas Alexander Byrd
George Washington Byrd (1870 - 1942)
son of Samuel William Byrd
Virgie Ocal Byrd (1916 - 1942)
daughter of George Washington Byrd
Donald Davis (1938 - 2008)
son of Virgie Ocal Byrd
Ruby (F94895) Dawson (1938 - )
wife of Donald Davis
Ruby Cooley (1911 - 2011)
mother of Ruby (F94895) Dawson
Malinda Buchanan (1878 - 1935)
mother of Ruby Cooley
William Buchanan (1852 - 1924)
father of Malinda Buchanan
Emily Bennett Bell (1818 - 1874)
mother of William Buchanan
Elijah Bell (1794 - )
father of Emily Bennett Bell
William Bell (1766 - 1826)
father of Elijah Bell
Mary Magruder (1744 - 1791)
mother of William Bell
Anne Wade (1706 - 1749)
mother of Mary Magruder
Eliza Sprigg (1671 - 1713)
mother of Anne Wade
Thomas Sprigg III (1631 - 1704)
father of Eliza Sprigg
Thomas Sprigg Jr (1614 - 1677)
father of Thomas Sprigg III
Catherine Stone (1595 - 1661)
mother of Thomas Sprigg Jr
John Stone (1575 - 1645)
father of Catherine Stone
William Stone (1603 - 1660)
son of John Stone
Mary Stone (1642 - 1682)
daughter of William Stone
Mary Doyne (1683 - 1735)
daughter of Mary Stone
Mary Lydia Dawson (1699 - 1758)
daughter of Mary Doyne
Thomas Alford (1725 - 1805)
son of Mary Lydia Dawson
William Alford (1775 - 1821)
son of Thomas Alford
William Alford (1804 - 1876)
son of William Alford
Wilson L 'Cap' Alford (1840 - 1905)
son of William Alford
Joseph Delaney Alford (1871 - 1957)
son of Wilson L 'Cap' Alford
Laura Jane Alford (1899 - 1969)
daughter of Joseph Delaney Alford
Lockie Lee Beasley (1921 - 2001)
daughter of Laura Jane Alford
Mary Kathryn King
You are the daughter of Lockie Lee Beasley

Justin please let me know if it is wrong

@Justin Swanström

Geni does not currently accept the parentage of Nicketti as given by tradition. The dating can't be made to work.

I didn't use Geni.

Ancestral Surnames
Alford Alford (Penner)/ J Alford (Smith) Alford (Field) Alford (Miller)/ S Alford/ J Bish/ S Bish Busch (Germany) Bedwell (Buttram) Bitter (Germany) Bitterling (Germany) Buttram *! (Williams) Buttram *! (Smith) Buttram *! (Bedwell) Buttram *! (Patterson)/ I Buttram *! (Parker) Brusch (Germany) Brisch (Germany) Brewster * (Smith) Chapman Cochran * (Reid) Connelly Christian Dye *! (Ferguson)/ S Dawson Donnell * (Patterson; Adams) Evans Field (Alford) Field Ferguson Griffith Green *! Goeringer (Germany) Hale *! (Mizer or Meiser) Honeywell Honeywell (United States) Hamilton (Moore) Harrison * (Smith; 5GGF; Pres Lincoln 2G-Uncle) Harrison*!(6 GGF; 2GGF Pres Lincoln & Pres Harrisons; Wright; Smith)/ S Jolley * Jolley* Jolley* (Hughes) Jolley* (Moore) Jolley Jones (Moore) * Jones/ Leake *! (Moore) Mask *! (Christian) MacDougall McSwain*(Moore) McGowan Meiser*! (Hale) Mizer (Brown)(Buttram)/ McCord *! (Means) Mitchell * Miller (Alford; Honaker) Means *! Means * Means* Mary Moore (Jolley)* Moore* Moore *! (Hamilton) Moore *! (Leake) Moore Sr./ * Sr Moore Marjory Norwood*! (McSwain) O'Daniel Overhall Oates !* (Sloan)/ I Powhatan Powhatan Pittman Patterson *! (Buttram) Patterson *! (Dads; Harrison) Patterson/ Patterson Penner (Alford) Parker *! Reid * (Cochran) Stanley Sulser (Alford) Sloan * (Espey) Sloan *! (Huggins) Sloan *! (Oates) Sloan * Sloan Swanson Smith Smith/ J Smith/ S Smith (Alford) Smith *! (Buttram) Smith *! Smith (Harrison) * (GG-GM Pres Lincoln & Pres Harrisons) Smith *! (Dad) Smith *! (Dad; Pres Lincoln 3rd G-GF) Schmidt (Germany) Smit (Germany) Smidt (Germany) Thompson * Wood (Sulser) Wood Withers Williams Williams (Ware) Williams *! (Ward)/ J Williams*! (Harrington; Orr; Buttram) Williams *! Ward *! (Williams; Baird; Pres Lincoln 3 cuz 1x removed) _____ *! (Dye) _____ (Bridges) (Bayley; Bridges) _____ (Craven) * _____ *(Craven) _____ (MacKorda) Arnold Busch (Prussia) Bostick * Bostick * Bitter (Prussia) Bitterling Bitterling (Prussia) Buttram *! (Buttram) Buttram *! (Mizer)/ Re Buttram *! Buttram *!/ Buttram *! (Westbury;) Blease Brisch Bowers (Hughes) * Bowers Brusch (Prussia) Brisch (Prussia) Brewster Bridges *! (Hughes) Bridges *!/ S Bradshaw * Bradshaw*! (Harrison) Bridges *! (Hamrick) Bridges *! (Metcalf) Bridges Bradshaw*! (Orrel) Bradshaw* Capps Clerke or Clark Craven (Ward)* (Pres Lincoln 3rd cuz) Craven * (Harrison) Craven * (Pres Lincoln 1st cuz 2x removed) Craven * (Ward) Craven * Craven * (Rachel MNU) Craven */ Capt Craven* Craven *! (Craven) Craven * Carver Carruth * Carruth Carne Dye *! (Ware) Dye *! (Goins) Dye *! Dye Dickey *! (Kidd) Dickey *! (Ware) Espey (Oates)* Espey */ Cap Espey *! (Hay) Espey *! Espey * Espey Edmonds *! (Ward) Edmonds English or Ingles *! (Hamrick) Enory Fish Fish (United States) Floyd Fergus Farmer* Farmer/ Farmer Goins *! (Dye) Goeringer Goeringer/ S Goeringer (Prussia) Hay Hughes * Hughes* Hughes/ Hughes *!/ Cap Hughes Huggins *! Huggins Hamilton Hammond * Hammond * Hamrick (Bridges) Hamrick *! (Ingles) Harrison (Craven) *! (Pres Lincoln 1st cuz 2x removed) Harrison (Craven)* Harrison (Cravens) Harrison *! (Symonds; Bradshaw)/ Re Harrison*(Craven; 6GGM; Pres Lincoln 2G Aunt ) Harrisson Kidd *! (Dickey) Law Leake *! (Mask) Leake * Little (Hughes) * Mask *! (Leake) MacHadray McKelvey * (Ware) McSwain*! McCord * Merritt Morehead Neves * Oates (Ware)* Oates *! Owen Orrel** Paine (Hammond) * Paine * Rebecca Roush Rackley Rigglesworth* Rosamond Rucker Rogers * Reed)/ Cap Reid *! (Oates) Reid * Reddish Reymes Sulser Swain Schmidt Schmidt (Prussia) Smit (Prussia) Smidt (Prussia) Smid (Prussia) Sarah Sawyer * Trippe * Thorne Thorne (United States) Unknown (Buttram) Unknown Westbury (Buttram) * Westbury * Ware Ware * Ware *! (Dickey)/ J Ware */ S Ward Jr */ J Ward Sr */ S Ward *! (Edmonds) Ward *! Ward/ Ward *!/ Re

Private User -- a list of surnames isn't useful here; any changes to what is in the Geni tree needs to be documented. As Justin explained, the inherited and cherished stories about the parentage of Nicketti do not hold water, because the dates (and places) don't work.

What's in Geni at the moment is what we can all be sure of because of the evidence.

Mary Katherine King, And yes that "sucks" but we are only as good as what we can prove. I, as many others, lost a lot with fixing this but it is what needed done. Hate it, but love it at the same time.

I am documented here. Or I was.those names are DNA matches. Should have been clear. I guess.

Mary, DNA can't help here unless you (a) can show a solid paper trail, and (b) show there is no other way the different could share that DNA.

This line fails on both counts. For now at least.

There is not a solid paper trail about Nicketti's ancestry. If there were, we would be having this debate.

And the DNA evidence, as far as I can see, has not even begun to deal with the possibility that it could come from another source.

Hughes's wife, according to traditions in the Floyd family, was a descendant of Powhatan's brother, Opechancanough (Brown, 1895: 46-47; 57-58; Woods, 1901: 49). Murdered after the Indian uprising of 1644, Opechancanough left a young daughter, "the child of his old age," named Princess Nicketti - 'she sweeps the dew from the flowers,' who clandestinely married an unnamed member of an old "Cavalier" family. Brown writes that "he fell in love with her and she with him."

First, let me say that I think this entire legend is probably a bunch of romantic nonsense. Although there may have been an Indian trader named Hughes who lived on the upper James River in the early 1700s, I doubt very much that his wife was a descendant of the legendary and perhaps mythical Nicketti. Also, although many Indian traders had Indian “wives” as well as white wives, the unions that they entered into with Indian women were not considered legal marriages back in those days. In fact, interracial marriages were illegal. People were very bigoted back then, much worse than today, if you can believe it.

There was indeed a Rees/Rice Hughes who patented land in Tidewater Virginia in the 1600s. Here are some of his land patents, original copies of which can be found on-line at the Library of Virginia:

8 March 1652. 200 acres on the north side of the Yorke River behind the land of George Gills in the main woods. Due for the transportation of John Williams, Robert Symons, Thomas Price and Hugh Griffin. No county name given but this land was probably located in what became New Kent County in 1654. Rice Hughes later assigned this patent to George Smith.

2 December 1656. 410 acres more of less on the southwest side of the York River in the County of New Kent adjoining the land of George Smith and Mr. Langstone. Due for the transportation of 9 persons including John Morely, Eliz. Harwood, Griffith Jones, Jane Urlin, Martin Weele, Margarett & Jno.

1 March 1657. 860 acres in New Kent County including his previous grant of 410 acres together with 450 acres adjoining, part thereof on the southwest side of the York River adjoining George Smith’s corner tree.

28 January 1662. 860 acres in New Kent County formerly granted to him in 1657 and now re-granted. (It was not uncommon for persons who had received grants during the time of Oliver Cromwell’s Commonwealth to take a re-grant after the Restoration of Charles II, in order to be sure of preserving title to their land.)

I can’t find another patent issued to Rees/Rice Hughes until 1693, which is a gap of 31 years. I suspect that the Rees/Rice Hughes of 1693 was the grandson of the original Rees/Rice Hughes and probably the son of Robert Hughes. The reason I believe this is because a Robert Hughes took out a patent for 855 acres in New Kent County in 1682 which was due for the transportation of 18 persons including Rees Hughes Jr and Elizabeth Hughes. My guess is that Robert Hughes, the son of the original Rees/Rice Hughes, went back to England to find a wife and then returned to Virginia with wife Elizabeth and son Rees Jr. When Rees Jr. grew up, he appears to have in turn named a son Robert. They lived in the New Kent/Henrico County area of Virginia and appear to have been Quakers, as can be seen from the following records from Volume IV of The Encyclopedia of Quaker Genealogy:

“A scrutiny of the Register of St. Peter’s parish which begins in 1686 is revealing in that it names many men living in Henrico, New Kent and the territory that later became Hanover, Caroline and Louisa Counties whose names also appear frequently in the Quaker records. Among these are: Charles Fleming, John Realy (Raley), Thomas Moorman, James Woody, Rice Hughes, Richmond Terrell, Sisilly Ellison, Alexander Mackeney, Thomas Stanley, Thomas Harris, William and John Johnson, Robert Ellison, Garret Robert Elleson, Robert Hughes and others. How many of these were Quakers in 1686 it is impossible to say, though some were, as a matter of fact, while others may have been “convinced” at a later date.”

1699/1700, 12, 9. Edward Huyghs gave 500 lbs of tobacco toward the building of a new MH at Curles.
1700, 2, 12. Rice Huyghs condemned for misconduct.
1700, 2, 28. Rice Hughes signed a certificate of a marriage in New Kent County.
1700, 2, 28. Robert Huyghes signed a cert of a marriage held in New Kent County; first time name appeared.
1700, 2, 28. Sarah Hughes Sr. signed a cert of a marriage held in Black Creek MH.
1701, 4, 6. Rice Hughes complained of for his misconduct; condemned for same & placed on probation.
1703/4, 1, 18. Rachel Hughes signed mtg book as a token that she was in unity with this MM as held.
1703, 10, 10. Sarah Hughes Senior & Junior signed a certificate of a marriage held in Henrico County.
1703, 10, 10. Stephen Hughes signed a certificate of a marriage at Wm. Porter’s house, Henrico County.
1705/6, 11, 19. Rice Hughes disowned.
1706/7, 12, 15. Edward Hughes ordered to remove obstacles that caused disturbance or he will be disowned.
1710, 6, 23. Stephen Hughes signed certificate of a marriage at New Kent MH.
1710, 4, 17. Robert Hughes proven a member of this MM when his vote was recorded.
1710, 6, 23. Robert Sr, Robert Jr and Sarah Hughes signed certificate of a marriage held in New Kent.
1711, 4, 8. John Atkinson resigned as clerk of MM having quarreled with Samuel Jordan; MM books turned over to Robert Hughes & G.R. Elyson. Atkinson mentioned that Hughes & Elyson were his friends & were responsible for his appointment as Clerk; he seemed to be a member of the New Kent PM.
1713/14, 12, 12. Sarah Hughes Jr. liberated to marry Thomas Atkinson.

Hope all of this information helps you or someone else who may be researching Rice/Rees Hughes. Good luck with your research, and I am glad that you are someone who actually looks for documentation to substantiate your genealogy.

Sincerely,
Nancy Kiser

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Rees or Rice Hughes, wife Nicketti

Posted by: Nancy Kiser
Date: January 17, 2005

In Reply to: Re: Rees or Rice Hughes, wife Nicketti by Billie Harris

Billie,
I have found further evidence in the early records of colonial Virginia which indicate that Rees/Rice Hughes had a wife named Susanna. These records indicate that Rees/Rice Hughes (Hoe) and his wife Susanna had an indentured servant named John Price (Prise) whom they may have either beaten or starved to death. These records also indicate that Rees/Rice Hughes bought an Indian girl, which possibly accounts for the legend that he "married" the Indian Princess Nicketti. Rees/Rice Hughes may have had children with this Indian girl, and it's possible that one of their descendants was the Trader Hughes who lived on the upper James River. I know the actual facts are not as pretty as the legend, but I think we need to be truthful about the past, no matter how reprehensible it was. Here are the additional citations that I have found:

From page 357 Charles City County Court Orders 1661-1664:
January 9, 1662: We whose names are hereunto subscribed being upon the Jury concerning the death of John Prise do find to the best of our knowledge that the said John Prise did come to his untimely end by the reason of his running away from his Mr. Rice Hoe and so was starved for want of victuals which running away we do apprehend was by the means of the sad stripes that appeared upon his body given him by his Mrs. Susanna Hoe upon the 2nd of January but we do not find any mortal wound upon him. Daniel Clarke, Neal Sincler, ffer. Aston, Wm Gillum, Rich. Bradford, John Hattly, Tho. Calloway, Tho Turner, Phillp Owen, Tho. Richard, Jeoffrey Momford, Jno Parish.

From page 359 Charles City County Court Orders 1661-1664:
Bee it knowne to all whom this may concerne that I Manwairing Hamond of Riccohocke Esqr out of the confidence and trust I repose in my trusty and welbeloved friends the Hono’ble ffrancis Morison Esqr, Mr Theoderick Bland, Capt Tho. Stegge, Major Joseph Croshaw and Mr. Stephen Hamelyn doe appoint and constitute the same persons my true and lawfull attornies to oversee all the estate reall and personall I leave behind me in Virginia and they or any thereof them to have hereby power to lett or make sayle of it…this 2 day of June 1662. Signed M. Hammond. Witnesses: George Morris, Sam Huckstepp, ___ Woodward, Rees Hughes.

From page 361 Charles City County Court Orders 1661-1664:
The Court hath passed judgment (according to an obligation produced in Court) agst Rice Hoe for ₤14-1 sterling money to be pd by bills of exchange and secured by the sd Hoe to the use of Major General Manwaring Hammond Esqr or his ass’s or attorneys according to the sd obligation with all costs to be pd by the sd Hoe als exec.

From page 361 Charles City County Court Orders 1661-1664:
Theoderick Bland Esqr for Major General Manwaring Hammond Esqr admitteth and confesseth judgement against the estate of the sd Major General Hamond to secure and justify the service of an Indian Girl by him sold to the said Hoe according to a contract under the hands of Rees Hughes agent for the sd Major General Manwaring Hammond als exec.

We've reviewed all of this already. Tantalizing but not enough to be conclusive evidence.

And it's worth noting that the earliest written account of the Nicketti legend (Brown 1895), which days she was a daughter of Opechancanough also says there was competing family tradition that says she was Catawba, but then immediately says that can't be right.

So we see right from the beginning that we are getting only one story out of at least two and perhaps more that were in circulation in the family back then. Not a promising start.

I will just keep reading and watching (:

6/6/1701 Alexander Makeney and G. Robert Elyson to admonish Rice Hughes concerning abuses done to his wife.

Gerrard Robert Ellyson

Showing 61-88 of 88 posts

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