Richard Denton, lll, Reverend - The Origins of Reverend Richard Denton

So it's past time to look into the father, Richard Denton, Il

With the improbable knight notations ....

Agreed. The father of the Richard born in 1603 is extremely unlikely to be the father of a Richard born in 1600 or before -- back to my brother Daryl and my other brother Daryl. And, identification of the parents presumes identification of the son.

Having identified all of the Richard Dentons born in England during this period, my bet would be that the Reverend Richard Denton was the one born in Fishlake, Yorkshire in 1599 and the son of Edward Denton. The only other choices are the Richard Denton born in Kent in 1600 or various Richards born in 1596 or before.

So next step would be to see what can be found out about Edward Denton of Fishlake.

Below are the records for Edward Denton (b.1568) and those who appear to be his children. Edward Denton's (1568) father was Robert but I could find no record. Edward's wife was Isabel, although one record for their first son, Edward (b.1596) has a note "illegitimate." His children appear to be Edward (b. 1596), Joanne (b.1597), Richard (b.1599) and perhaps Maria (b.1604 or 1605) and Arthur (b.1608).

First name(s) Edward
Last name Denton
Status Son
Birth year ­
Baptism year 1568
Baptism date 26 Sep 1568
Baptism place Fishlake
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Robert
Mother's first name(s) ­
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom

Doncaster Family History Society

First name(s) Edward
Last name Denton
Status Son
Birth year -
Baptism year 1596
Baptism date 4 Nov 1596
Baptism place Fishlake
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Isabel
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Notes Illegitimate
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom
Doncaster Family History Society

First name(s) Edus
Last name Denton
Baptism year 1596
Baptism date 04 Nov 1596
Baptism place Fishlake
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Issabell
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Archive Doncaster Archives
Archive reference P17-1-A1
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom
Transcription © DC Thomson Family History

First name(s) Joanne
Last name Denton
Status Daughter
Birth year -
Baptism year 1597
Baptism date 14 Feb 1597
Baptism place Fishlake
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Edward
Mother's first name(s) -
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom
Doncaster Family History Society

First name(s) Richard
Last name Denton
Status Son
Birth year -
Baptism year 1599
Baptism date 12 Nov 1599
Baptism place Fishlake
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Edward
Mother's first name(s) -
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom
Doncaster Family History Society

First name(s) Maria
Last name Denton
Baptism year 1604
Baptism date 20 Jan 1604
Baptism place Fishlake
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Edi
Mother's first name(s) -
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Archive Doncaster Archives
Archive reference P17-1-A1
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom
Transcription © DC Thomson Family History

First name(s) Maria
Last name Denton
Status Daughter
Birth year -
Baptism year 1605
Baptism date 20 Jan 1605
Baptism place Fishlake
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Edward
Mother's first name(s) -
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom
Doncaster Family History Society

First name(s) Arthur
Last name Denton
Status Son
Birth year -
Baptism year 1608
Baptism date 9 Oct 1608
Baptism place Fishlake
Denomination Anglican
Father's first name(s) Edward
Mother's first name(s) -
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Record set Yorkshire Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from United Kingdom
Doncaster Family History Society

The only name that matches another Denton is Isabel, the chandler's widow. Any chance we can find spouse names for any of the possible siblings?

I will take a look.

Below are possible spouses for possible siblings of Richard Denton (b.1599). The searches were limited to Yorkshire for a period of plus or minus 10 years from their 21st birthdays.

First name(s) Edwardus
Last name Denton
Name note -
Marriage year 1617
Marriage date 1617
Marriage place Almondbury
Spouse's first name(s) Anna
Spouse's last name Taylor
Residence Almondbury, Yorkshire, England
County Yorkshire
Country England
Record set England Marriages 1538-1973
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from United Kingdom

First name(s) Jana
Last name Denton
Marriage year 1622
Marriage date 13 May 1622
Spouse's first name(s) Robertus
Spouse's last name Deane
Marriage place Elland, St Mary
Church St Mary
Chapelry Elland
County Yorkshire West Riding
Country England
Groom's parish OTP
Groom signed No
Bride's parish OTP
Bride signed No
Record set Yorkshire Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from United Kingdom
Calderdale Family History Society

Record set Yorkshire, Bishop's Transcripts Of Marriages
First name(s) Maria
Last name Denton
Birth year -
Marriage year 1625
Spouse's first name(s) Gulielmus
Spouse's last name Cates
Residence Hallife
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Marriage place Halifax
Marriage date 30 Sep 1625
Spouse's residence Hallefe
Archive Borthwick Institute for Archives
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from United Kingdom
Transcription © DC Thomson Family History

There were no matches for Arthur (b.1608).

Should we make a tree?

William Cates who married Maria Denton in Hallife in 1625 is particularly interesting, as we have Maria Duerden marrying a Richard Denton in 1625 in Hallife, do we not?

Making a tree could encourage others to take a serious look. Perhaps someone will find something new.

Good catch on the Hallife connection. I had not noticed that. Yes, a Richus Denton married a Maria Duerden (of Hallife) in Halifax on January 21, 1625.

I could not find Hallife on a map. And, it does not even yield a result with a general search. Any idea where in Yorkshire it might be? I would assume near Halifax but that is just a guess.

It must be an archaic term. I read the context as a location within Halifax.

Some old books listed here

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Halifax/HalifaxHistory.html

Of Halifax and the parish, there are no less than three separate histories, viz. "Halifax and its Gibbet Law," by John Bentley, 12mo. published in 1761. "Antiquities of the town of Halifax," by Thomas Wright, 12mo. Leeds, 1738; and the "History and Antiquities of the parish of Halifax," by the Rev. John Watson, M.A. and F.S.A. 4to. London, 1775; besides an edition in 8vo. entitled the "History of the town and parish of Halifax," &c. published in numbers, by E. Jacobs, in 1789. This last appears to be an abridgement of Watson's.

-----

But I would ask on a Yorkshire / Halifax mail list

Thank you for the updates, all interesting information. :)

Isn't it though? When you dig in, regardless of making a connection or not, you fill in a mental map of a life & times, and get beyond the names & dates. That's what makes genealogy interesting.

This is too cute! (and gives me an idea of Halifax geography & history)

http://www.halifaxminster.org.uk/images/minsterphotos/Hali-Facts-Di...

Your Halifacts link is certainly more entertaining than Wikipedia. It made me want to go carpet shopping.

While we continue to chase the Reverend's family, it seems to me some at least interim changes to his Geni profile would be in order because the profile now seems misleading. Therefore, I would propose some or all of the following changes so that users and researchers have a better shot at finding better information about him and his family.

First, if we cannot identify the "proper" Richard, then we certainly cannot identify his parents. Therefore, his father and mother should at least be shown as unknown. Personally, I am sufficiently satisfied that the Reverend is the Richard born in Fishlake on 12 Nov 1599 that he is the one I will identify in my own personal database. But, of course, I will include an explanation to the effect that he is the most likely Reverend Richard because of the requirement he be at least 23 at the time of his ordination in 1623. Whether the Reverend's father should be shown as Edward Denton (b.26 Sep 1568 in Fishlake) and his mother shown as Isabel, I leave to you and the managers of his profile. Whatever the case, I will continue to look for more information.

Second, because there are several possibilities for his wife, I guess I would leave her as unknown, but I would note the possibilities in the About section of the profile, perhaps by copying and pasting the relevant paragraphs from my memo.

Third, I would show his children as those identified by Walter Krum:

Tymothie baptised at Turton 23 July 1627
Nathaniell baptised at Turton 9 March 1628/9
Samuel baptised at Coley 29 May, 1631
Daniel baptised at Coley 10 July 1632
Phoebe baptised at Coley 30 Nov. 1634

There is no evidence that the other children now shown (Richard, Sarah and John) are the children of the Reverend. If someone has evidence to the contrary, great. But let us see it.

Fourth, if we cannot identify the "proper" Richard, then we certainly cannot identify his brothers either. The brothers should either be deleted or, if Edward Denton (b.1568) is identified as the Reverend's father, then his siblings could be listed as Edward (b.4 Nov 1596) and Joanne (b.14 Feb 1597), and perhaps Maria (b. 20 Jan 1604 or 1605) and Arthur (b.9 or 10 Oct 1608).

Fifth, I would delete the suffix "III" from his name.

Finally, it may be helpful to users and researchers if the Overview referred them to this discussion for more detailed information about the origins of Reverend Richard Denton. Perhaps others would be encouraged to do a little research.

Yes, I'll work on those updates. My thought is to reference in placeholder parents links to the possible ones : the traditional ? Richard & Susan, and the Fishlake Edward & Isabel.

So we need profiles for the family group of Edward & Isabel. And also for the possible Maria wife, since we have a possible siblings marrying siblings scenario.

Are there records for Richard & Susan to reference?

Also when / how Richard & Susan were proposed as the Rev's parents. The earliest reference I recall was Richard, son of another Richard.

The designation of Richard Denton (1557 or 1565-1619; from Warley, Yorkshire) and Susan Sibella (1563-1655; from St. Albans, Hertfordshire), married in Warley, Yorkshire in 1582, as parents of Reverend Denton appears to be of recent internet vintage. I can find no other support suggesting they were the parents of Rev. Denton. None of the listings for these two "parents" includes a source. The references appear circular because each refers to the other internet source as authority. They also seem to leap from a Denton arriving with the Conqueror to Richard Denton (1557-1679) being a knight, but with no support for either assertion.

There is a record for the baptism of a Richardus Denton in 1557 in Sourby (near Halifax), the son of Ric. Denton (no associated dates for "Ric."). There is no record of a Richard Denton born in Yorkshire in 1565 but the one record for a Richard born in 1564 shows his father as "Roberti." I found no record of a marriage in Yorkshire between any Denton and a Susan Sibella. And, my search on FindMyPast and FreeReg.org.uk for a Susan Sibella (using various spellings) in all of England and born 1563 (plus or minus 10 years) yielded no results.

The children of Richard Denton (1557-1619) and Susan Sibella (1563-1655), in addition to Rev. Richard Denton (shown as born 1603), are asserted to be:

Thomas (b. 1584 in Halifax). But my search for ALL Dentons in Yorkshire from 1510-1610 found no Thomas Denton baptised in 1584. There is a record for a Thomas baptised in Elland in 1585 but whose father was Will'mi.

Susan (b. 22 Sep 1588 in Halifax). Again, my search for ALL Dentons in Yorkshire from 1510-1610 found no Susan Denton baptised in 1588. There is a record for a Susan baptised at St. Albans in Hertfordshire on 22 Sep 1588 whose father was a Richard Denton. Note it was the same date but near London.

Margaret (b. 10 Jan 1590 in Halifax). And, my search for ALL Dentons in Yorkshire from 1510-1610 found no Margaret Denton baptised in 1590. But there are records for 2 Margarets born in 1589, one in Sheffield to father "Nichi" and the other in Dewsbury to father "Christofer."

Alice (b. 14 Nov 1585 in Halifax). My search for ALL Dentons in Yorkshire from 1510-1610 also found no Alice Denton baptised in 1585. There was an Alice Denton born on 14 Nov 1585 to a Richard Denton but that baptism was at St. Albans, Hertfordshire, not Halifax.

John (b. 16 Jul 1582 in Halifax). Finally, my search for ALL Dentons in Yorkshire from 1510-1610 found no John Denton baptised in 1582. But there is a record for a John Denton born on 16 July 1681 (note the same day and month but off by a year) in Helmsley, Yorkshire, the father being William. Helmsley is perhaps 50 or 60 miles northeast of Halifax.

The foregoing evidence about Richard Denton and Susan Sibella is fraught with so many errors and contradictions, I cannot see a justification for continuing to list them as possible parents of Rev. Denton. Perhaps someone can point me to some better evidence but...

Thank you for those searches. It's feeling like a cobbled together tree of any Denton in the time frame

I agree.

Below is a list of Denton Wills in the York Registry in case someone wants to take a look. I found the list online but was not able to find the actual volumes containing the wills.

Wills in the York Registry, 1568-1585
Record Series, Volume 19
Yorkshire Archaeological and Topographical Association
1895

Date of Probate, Name (Denton), Place, Parish, Date of Will, Vol, Fol

1583 Aug 02, Edward, Helliwell Greene, Elland, 1583 May 13, 22, 436
1580 Dec 09, Edward, Warley, Halifax, 1580 Sep 02, 21, 509
1571 Sep 05, Francis, Leven, 1571, 19, 408
1584 May 06, Gilbert, Ovenden, Halifax, 1583 Mar 22, 22, 660
1580 Oct 05, Leonard, Hellywelgreene, Elland, 1580 Aug 08, 21, 473
1578 Oct 02, Maryon, Helmesley, 1576 May 07, 21, 151
1575 Oct 05, Richard, Helmesley, 1575 May 01, 19, 785
1572 Oct 02, Richard, Kirkburton, 1572, 19, 475
1581 Aug 18, Richard, Scammonden, Huddersfield, 1581 Mar 16, 22, 123
1583 Jun 04, Thomas, Southorum, 1582 Feb 10, 22, 401
1572 Oct 24, William, Gowton, 1572 Sep 27, 19, 342
1577 Oct 02, William, Ovenden, Halifax, 1577 Aug 11, 21, 56
1576 Oct 13, William, Scamonden, Huddersfield, 1575 Aug 05, 20, 107
1575 Nov 08 , William, Shelley, Kirkeburton, 1575 Oct 20, 19, 850

The link to the above list in the Yorkshire Registry follows: https://books.google.com/books?id=AKhDAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=...

About 6 messages above about Richard Denton and Susan Sibella, I noted a John Denton (b. 16 Jul 1582) in Halifax. Later in that paragraph I noted the records were off by a year but used the year 1681. That 1681 should have read 1581.

Can we get a generation or two later on the will probate list?

I have prepared a PDF document called "Denton Wills in the York Registry, 1585-1636." It has been uploaded to the Sources tab in Geni or you can download it using the following link.

http://www.analent.com/Denton/DentonWillsYorkRegistry1585-1636.pdf

The first 4 pages contain the extracted will information from the Yorkshire Registries. The remaining pages are from the actual registries, but show only the Denton information (in case anyone wants to check the originals).

It is interesting to note the occupations of the Dentons recited in the York Registries. They are: blacksmith, yeoman, spinster, clothier, cutler, husdbandman, gentleman, milner and clerk, Not a single knight.

The Knights of England: A Complete Record from the Earliest Time ..., Volume 1
By William Arthur Shaw, page 68

https://books.google.com/books?id=l4xUsPyL6koC&lpg=RA2-PA68&amp...

Denton, Alexander KT., 1617
Denton, Anthony, Kt., 1603
Denton, Thomas, Kt., 1603

Thomas & Alexander are of Bucks

https://books.google.com/books?id=l4xUsPyL6koC&q=Denton+#v=snip...