Richard Denton, lll, Reverend - The Origins of Reverend Richard Denton

In the Puritan theocracy of Colonial America, growing ministers, who functioned as community leaders, was a priority. This was, I suppose, modeled on Oxbridge, but I can't think of an alternative to the Inns for legal studies that was another route to security for the aspiring English middle class / younger sons of the landed gentry.

Yes. Three years was the norm.

And, yes again. Almost everything I have read suggested it was either the Inns of Court or the priesthood upon Oxbridge graduation...

http://www.multiwords.de/genealogy/halstead.html#denton

Should take another look at this pedigree, it may tie some family fragments together

A very kind descendant of William Thorpe (b.1621) of Hipperholme, West Yorkshire pointed me to the baptism of Mary, daughter of "Rich. Denton Hipp. Minister" on 21 June 1638. It appears that not only did Reverend Richard Denton also have a daughter named Mary but that he also served as a minister at Hipperholme (about a mile from Coley and Priestley Green) and that he was still in Yorkshire in June of 1638. I have posted a copy of that baptism record from Ancestry.com on the Sources tab. Geni's William Thorpe entry appears here: William Thorpe

Hipperholme, Coley and Halifax are all within about a mile or two of each other. Being so close, it would make sense for Rev. Denton to have duties at both Hipperholme and Coley. A Wikipedia article about Hipperholme states:

"St John the Baptist Church of the same denomination is located north of Hipperholme on Coley Road. It was built in the early 16th century as a chapel of ease at the instigation of William Thorpe of Hipperholme, enlarged in 1596, 1631, and 1711, extensively renovated on the latter occasion, and replaced by a new building in 1816." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipperholme

An article on "A Vision of Britain through Time" about Hipperholme states:

"Here also are the chapelries of Brighouse, Lightcliffe, and Coley, with their places of worship, their schools, and their charities." http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/956

Lightcliffe is within a half mile of Hipperholme and Brighouse is perhaps another mile south. In its listing of Halifax parish churches, the CCEd includes Coley and Lightcliffe chapels but not Hipperholme or Brighouse, unless they are designated under different names that I am unable to associate properly. http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/locations/index.jsp

In any case, we have another Rev. Denton daughter and know that he was still in Yorkshire in June of 1638.

Ah, she was misidentified as wife of Thorne, but it was Thorpe! Elizabethan handwriting strikes again.

I wish they had had typewritters in the 17th century.

Now the provable children of Rev. Denton are:

1627 July 23, Tymothie, Turton
1629 March 9, Nathaniell, Turton [Gregorian date]
1631 May 29, Samuel, Coley
1632 July 10, Daniel, Coley
1634 Nov. 30, Phoebe, Coley
1638 June 21, Mary, Hipperholme/Coley

The gap between the end of 1634 and mid-1638 leaves the possibility of another child during that period. Therefore, I checked the original transcripts for baptisms between mid-1635 (Nov 1634 + 9 months) and the fall of 1637 (June 1638 - 9 months). The transcripts available on Ancestry.co.uk appear to have been written in Halifax and include surrounding churches and chapels such as Coley, Sowerby, Ovendon, etc. At the end of each entry is an abbreviation for the location, such as "Sowr," "Ovend" and "Hiph." A common abbreviation appears to be "Hall" which I would take to be Halifax since it was the largest city in the area. But there is also an occassional abbreviation of "Hallif" which is more clearly Halifax.

I found one baptism on 6 Jan 1636/7 that could be another child of Rev. Denton. The orignal entries are formatted to show the given name of the child, followed by the father's given and surnames, followed by the abbreviated location. The original appears to read: Piter Richardi Denton [?] Col[?] Hiph. I interpret the entry to be: Peter [son of] Richard Denton [?] Coley Hipperholme. I have posted a copy of the original on the Sources tab.

While the above entry does not note this Richard as a "minister," if the entry does say Coley and Hipperholme, then both of those locations are within a mile of Priestley Green.

FindMyPast has a corresponding entry for this Peter (Petras) Denton which follows:

Record set Yorkshire, Bishop's Transcripts Of Baptisms
First name(s) Petras
Last name Denton
Baptism year 1636
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Baptism place Halifax
Mother's first name(s) -
Father's first name(s) Richardi
Baptism date 06 Jan 1636
Event type Baptisms, marriages & burials
Source year range 1627-1706
Archive Borthwick Institute for Archives
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Parish Baptisms

FindMyPast also has an entry corresponding to the Mary Denton baptised 21 June 1638 described in my note from yesterday:

Record set Yorkshire, Bishop's Transcripts Of Baptisms
First name(s) Mary
Last name Denton
Baptism year 1638
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Baptism place Halifax
Mother's first name(s) -
Father's first name(s) Richard
Baptism date 21 Jun 1638
Event type Baptisms, marriages & burials
Source year range 1627-1706
Archive Borthwick Institute for Archives
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Parish Baptisms

Erica, what do you think?

Do we have further information on this Peter & Richard ? Is this the Mary Thorne who was on one of the first lists of his children, way back at the beginning of thread?

By the way, I recently cleaned up the Long Island “Rock” Smiths vs the Long Island “Nan” Smiths. Denton’s married into both families (Hempstead). Shockingly the Denton’s were correct. :)

Also - do we have any other Richard Denton’s baptizing children in the Halifax area in the 1630s? My recollection is we “don’t.”

I could not find any other information about the Peter Denton baptised to Richard Denton on 6 Jan 1636. There were no burial records for a Peter Denton in Yorkshire through 1645.

I think you are thinking of Sara Denton Thorne. She appeared in Combes' list being born 1623-4 and married to William Thorne about 1639. You can see that thread above starting with my entry on 6/22/2017 at 12:36 PM and then your replies beginning 6/22/2017 at 5:27 PM.

We never did have a Mary as a daughter of Rev. Denton. Nor did anyone else.

There were only two baptisms to a Richard Denton in Yorkshire in the 1630's other than the one's we have identified as being children of the Reverend. One was a Richard baptised to Fishlake Richard Denton on 4 Mar 1631. The other is an unreadable first name baptised to a Richard Denton in Halifax in March 1637/8 which conflicts with Mary baptised in Hipperholme/Coley on 21 June 1638. This 1637/8 baptism would likely be to the 1603 Warley Richard.

I suspect Denton cleanup could take a bit longer. :)

There is William Thorpe confusion - his parents are Disputed (notice the Saltonstall 2nd wife Martha Thorpe )

The New Haven settlers continue here

William Thorpe

Their genealogy described in a Register article

http://books.google.com/books?id=ByFAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA393&lpg=...

And football star Jim Thorpe descended from him

https://www.tnonline.com/2010/dec/04/was-jim-thorpe-irish

Here’s the confused Sarah Thorne, {Fictional}

Brainstorming:

In 1640, Rev. Richard Denton would have been 39 and his wife, Maria Duerden, would have been 36. They had Tymothie in 1627, Nathaniel in 1629, Samuel in 1631, Phebe in 1634, Peter in 1636 and Mary in 1638. They then sailed to America in 1638 or 1639. By 1647, Rev. Denton moved his family to Hempstead, New York.

The town records for Hempstead include an allotment in 1647 of the lands originally obtained by patent in 1644. Sixty-six proprietors were named in the 1647 allotment -- only the males, of course. Included were Rev. Richard Denton, and his sons Nathaniel, Samuel, Daniel and "Richard, Jun." In 1647 Nathaniel was only 18, Samuel was 16 and Daniel was 15. So, the list included male children who had not yet reached their majority.

What if Richard, Junior had been born about 1639 or 1640, after Reverend Denton and his family had arrived in New England. That would explain the lack of a baptism record in Yorkshire. And, with the births of Peter in 1636 and Mary in 1638, the Reverend and Maria may not have been done having children in 1640 at the ages of 39 and 36 respectively. If Richard, Junior had been born in 1640, he would have been 7 when the 1647 allotment was made.

The Geni entry for Richard Denton, Jr. shows him having children in 1658 and 1659 when he would have been 18 to 20 years old. Being on Long Island and near Manhattan would explain the Dutch name for a child (Ceertje). And, the name Phebe was his sister's name -- a sister who may have died early since we do not seem to have encountered her name elsewhere.

This narrative might explain some of the evidence. Interestingly, Moore, in his "Early History of Hempstead," gives biographical information for all of the male Dentons except for Richard, Junior. But Junior's listing in the 1647 town record attests to his existence. With only 2 or 3 children and no biographical information left behind, perhaps he died early.

The Early History of Hempstead NY, Charles Moore (1878), pp. 6-8. https://ia801409.us.archive.org/16/items/earlyhistoryofhe00moor/ear...

I don,t know how you two keep this all straight.
My question is, is my 4th great grandmother Sophia Denton [Deyton] (Dobson)
Gender: Female
Birth: circa 1775
Yancey County, North Carolina, United States
Death: circa 1850 (67-83)
Jacks Creek, Yancey County, North Carolina, United States
Immediate Family:
Mother of Martha "Patsy" McCourry (Deyton)

part of this search?
I have Deyton DNA connection on 23and Me but so far no Denton.

Patricia, I am not a DNA expert, but you might want to look at the Family Tree DNA Denton Group Project at https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Denton You might get some insights there about how to proceed with respect to your Denton DNA.

I have not seen before the Denton surname variations you mention. But I have certainly seen surname variations in my own genealogy, so don't let those differences deter you from digging deeper.

The Geni entries for Geertje Losee (Denton) and Phoebe Tupper (Denton) include substantially later birth dates which could support the argument for Richard Denton Junior's birth being later (e.g. 1640). Geertje Denton's entry suggets a birth date circa 1664 and Phoebe Denton's entry includes a suggested birth date of 1679.

Another thought about the timing of Richard Denton, Jr. birth is that English naming conventions would have placed the repetition of the father's name for a male child later in the naming cycle. See Erica's notes about the naming conventions earlier in this discussion on 6/21/2017 at 1:59 PM and 6/28/2017 at 9:59 AM.

In addition, it appears that the marriage license for Cornelius Losee, Jr and Geertje Losee (Denton) was issued about 1687. Had Geertje Denton been born about 1664, she would have been 23 at the time of marriage.

“Names of Persons for whom Marriage lisceneses were issued by the secretary of the Province of New York previous to 1784. #974.7 V25m Page IV & V "1687 abt of Oyster Bay, NY Cornelius Losee & Geertje Denton marry"

The Geni entry for Phoebe Tupper (Denton) places her marriage to Richard Tupper in 1699, again possibly supporting a later birth date.

List of Proprietors in Hempstead, 1647:

12. Denton, Richard, Jun., son of Rev. Richard.

——

That argues for an Earlier Birth ! ( 1647 - 21 = 1626)

Certainly he could have had 2 families explaining later children Birth dates.

I’ve added profiles for Peter Denton & Mary Denton if you can attach their baptism records to them ?

The more I think about these finds, the more I like them, and they are consistent with other notes:

- yes, of course the Rev would have serviced all “the chapels of ease” in his Parish
- the Rev had such a large family it was commented on, yet we started out with “not enough” kids to have earned that. Now we have them.
- A Daughter “Mary” resonates with the potential Maria Durden identification for the Rev’s wife. Yay !

"That argues for an Earlier Birth ! ( 1647 - 21 = 1626)"

I'm not sure I understand...

I am suggesting that children were named on the allotment despite the fact that they had not yet reached their majority. For example, we know that Daniel was baptised at Coley in 1632. Therefore, in 1647 he was still only 15. Daniel had still not reached his majority but was nevertheless named on the list. Also, Robert Coe's son, Benjamin, was born in 1629 and was also named despite being only 18.

Particularly with the naming of Daniel Denton while only 15, it appears that a young age was not an impediment to being included on the allotment list. Therefore, Richard, Junior's birth even around 1640 would not have been an impediment to being included on the list. Also, perhaps inclusion on the list served a function similar to a will, guaranteeing children had a right to some land.

*******

I will attach the baptism records for Peter and Mary.

Another thought... The 1647 list reflected an "alloment" or an "allocation" of land. It was not called a grant. Perhaps the "allotment" was devised to give "X" number of acres for each male child.

But this is list of Proprietors, not allotments

List of Proprietors in Hempstead, 1647:

12. Denton, Richard, Jun., son of Rev. Richard.

Will pull up the full list.

From http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Queens/history/hempstead...

From the "Early. History of Hempstead," by Charles B. Moore, we take the following
list of proprietors of Hempstead in 1647:
Robert Ashman,
Thomas Armitage,
Samuel Baccus,
John Carman,
Samuel Clark,
Benjamin and John Coe and their father Robert,
Rev. Richard Denton and his sons Samuel, Richard, Nathaniel and Daniel (the historian),
John Ellison, ....

I don’t think I’d read this treatment before - he likes the Warley Baptism for the Rev. Which really makes me smile.

https://books.google.com/books?id=zAV98m0cyl4C&lpg=PA67&ots...

Page 168 of Four American Ancestries: White, Griggs, Cowles, Judd, Including Haring, Phelps, Denison, Clark, Foote, Coley, Haight, Ayers, and Related Families, Volume 1. Peter Haring Judd, 2008 - Connecticut - 1060 pages

From http://longislandgenealogy.com/notes.html

From these authorities, it appears that March 10th., 1656, dated at Hempstead, a petition was addressed to Gov. Peter Stuyvesant beseeching rights to settle at Jamaica, which was signed by the fourteen original settlers,

"Robert Jackson
Nicholas Tanner
Nathaniel Denton
Richard Everit
Rodger Linas
Daniel Denton
John Lazar
Abraham Smith ....

Before I lose it, was reading this article

https://www.jstor.org/stable/23135179?read-now=1&googleloggedin...

EARLY DAYS IN HEMPSTEAD, LONG ISLAND

Courtney R. Hall
New York History
Vol. 24, No. 4 (October 1943), pp. 534-547
Published by: Fenimore Art Museum
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23135179
Page Count: 14

Okay, I certainly concede that the list is titled "List of Proprietors in 1647." But I believe, based on Charles Moore's description of the settlement of Hempstead which precedes the list, that his use of the term "proprietors" in the title may be a bit misleading. Just prior to that list he described the list as follows:

"In 1647, as appears by the town records, a division or allotment of land was first made under this patent [Governor Keft's 1644 patent to Fordham] (i. e.) three years after its date." The Early History of Hempstead NY, Charles Moore (1878), p. 6.
https://ia801409.us.archive.org/16/items/earlyhistoryofhe00moor/ear...

I think the list more likely a division of the land (an allocation of acreage) to families than it is a grant of acreage to each of the listed individuals.

In any case, if the argument is that Richard, Junior must have been born by 1626 in order to be 21 in 1647 and, therefore, old enough to be a "proprietor," then Nathaniel, Daniel and Samuel must have been born by 1626 as well in order to be 21.

**************

The original grant of Hempstead by Governor Keft in 1644 was to Robert Fordham and 6 others. Fordham was then to recruit settlers. If he did not get 100 families, then the amount of land would be allocated (perhaps reduced) based on the number of families. The following is how Charles Moore described the process:

"After the fighting and the peace, the Dutch Governor Keift, who was fully authorized, issued his letters patent, dated 16th November, 1644, to Robert Fordham and six other Englishmen... [I]f the patentees cannot within five years procure 100 families to settle on said lands, they shall enjoy, ratum pro rata, land according to the number they shall procure..."
The Early History of Hempstead NY, Charles Moore (1878), p. 5.
https://ia801409.us.archive.org/16/items/earlyhistoryofhe00moor/ear...

A possibility is that whoever created and submitted the list to Governor Keft recognized that they might not get the requisite 100 families. Including the names of male children might have increased the allotment by Governor Keft in a situation where the Governor may not have really cared.

Richard listed 2nd in the list of sons.

I agree the term proprietor may not have meant they were of age.

This cracked me up:

https://archive.org/stream/earlyhistoryofhe00moor#page/13

Captain John Seaman was not from Yorkshire, and was sent by others on embassies because he could, with less difficulty, make himself understood.

I also noticed in the "History of Queens County," Munsell (1882) that Richard was listed second. But it also listed Samuel (bp.1631) before Nathaniel (bp.1629). And, Munsell's list is explicitly derived from Moore's 1879 list in "The Early History of Hempstead." And, Moore's list is alphabetical, even listing Daniel and Nathaniel before Reverend Richard Denton.

"History of Queens County," Munsell (1882). http://bklyn-genealogy-info.stevemorse.org/Queens/history/hempstead...

**********

Yes, that line about the Yorkshire dialect struck me too. If Yorkshire English was so difficult to understand, moving next door to the Dutch was probably not that big of a deal.