Richard Denton, lll, Reverend - The Origins of Reverend Richard Denton

http://www.packrat-pro.com/ships/shiplist.htm

Thanks for the great reference! Not only was Reverend Richard Denton's name not among the passengers listed on Pilgrim Ship Lists Early 1600's (http://www.packrat-pro.com/ships/shiplist.htm), the site is so well organized that it has a separate list of known immigrants that are specifically noted as not being among the passengers. Rev. Denton was on the list of those specifically noted as not on the passenger lists. While the lists begin in 1602, they stop in about mid-1638. That does leave open the possibility of later passage.

Also there are ships that came to US buried in records in Britain, especially private ones. And there are, of course, lost records.

Minor but perhaps significant change to my memo noted in the first post above:

I revised the first paragraph on page 6 about emigration to clarify that it was Reverend Heywood (1630-1702; successor to Rev. Denton at Coley in about 1651) who said Rev. Denton was at Coley for about 7 years (perhaps until 1638-40). The source matters because Rev. Heywood was closer in time and location to the actual events. In addition, since he was there only a decade or so after Rev. Denton left, he may have learned his facts from parishoners who were actually there when Rev. Denton lived in Coley.

My apologies, Erica. I was distracted but should have noticed and acknowledged that you pulled the baptism record for the "Warley" Richard Denton born in Halifax in April 1603 -- the Richard Denton cited by Walter Krum.

The record you pulled does indeed identify his father as a Richard Denton. Therefore, (following on my note above on 5/13/2017 at 11:28 AM) if this father named Richard was the same as the one who married Susan Sibella, this father-Richard and Susan Sibella would not be the parents of an earlier Richard -- unless this is the original source of that Bob Newhart routine with my brother Darryl and my other brother Darryl.

I've seen stranger. :)

We do have validation of this Halifax, Yorkshire family (Richard b 1603 > Richard > Richard m Genett Banyster).

We're pretty sure the Rev was from Yorkshire. It's a big place, lots of other Dentons. What other locations are associated with the Rev?

I cannot think of any other locations in England associated with his name before his emigration to America. But, upon his return in 1658-59, the histories generally indicate he went to Essex. I have always wondered about that location because it seems to have come out of the blue with no connection to his prior history. And, of course, Essex is next door to London, rather than in the north, like Yorkshire. I do believe I recall someone suggesting the return to Essex was wrong and that he really returned to Halifax. But I have not seen any evidence for either of these assertions.

I should also add that my recollection is that the early histories refer to Reverend Denton as a "Yorkshire man." Did that description arise simply because his life after Cambridge was based in Yorkshire? Or, did it arise because he was born in Yorkshire? If I spent my youth in New York but my adult life in Virginia, would I be described by historians as a New Yorker or a Virginian?

Another question: would the Church of England in 1627 send a southern Englishman into the north to minister to the flock in Yorkshire?

There is a contemporaneous record about Rev. Denton's return to England made by Johannes Megapolensis. and Samuel Drisius in 1657. That record follows:

Ecclesiastical Records, State of New York, Vol I, 1901, p. 407. (Also in Narratives of New Netherland, Jameson, 1909, p. 399-402.)

… Mr. Richard Denton, who is sound in faith, of a friendly disposition, and beloved by all, cannot be induced by us to remain, although we have earnestly tried to do this in various ways. He first went to Virginia to seek a situation, complaining of lack of salary, and that he was getting in debt, but he has returned thence. He is now fully resolved to go to old England, because his wife, who is sickly, will not go without him, and there is need of their going there, on account of a legacy of four hundred pounds sterling, lately left by a deceased friend, and which they cannot obtain except by their personal presence.
…
Your friends and fellow laborers,
Johannes Megapolensis.
Samuel Drisius.
Manhattans,
Oct. 22, 1657.

Another way to look at Reverend Denton's birth place would be to look at the known births of Richard Dentons around 1600. All of the baptisms of Richard Dentons in all of England between 1585 and 1606 I could identify are listed on page 9 of my memo. A subset listing those who were baptised between 1595 and 1601 are on page 8. That subset has 4 Richard Dentons born in Yorkshire, one in London and one in Kent (southeast of London). Those lists certainly narrow the known possibilities.

Yorkshire-men have a distinctive accent. I can't imagine he would have been called from York if he wasn't. Finding a work situation in Essex for his return to England would have been through work contacts - he's a prominent preacher by then in a network.

Tracking down that legacy would be interesting. Friend, not family! Presbyterians ?

I think those 19th Century historians who claimed to have a tape of Reverend Denton's sermons were just perpetrating a hoax. (Given the current news, how could I pass up that punch line?)

But, seriously... I do agree the distinctiveness of the Yorkshire accent would have been unmistakable. The arguments for a non-Yorkshire birth seem thin.

I checked burial records on FindMyPast for a Richard Denton between 1657 and 1667. There were six. But none of them were identifiable as the Reverend. They were:

(1) 1660. St Mary, Elland, Yorkshire (Relative's name: Joshua)
(2) 1661 Tiffield, England [between Oxford & Cambridge], husbandman
(3) 1664 St. Peter, Elford, Staffordshire, Anglican
(4) 1665 Crowle, Lincolnshire
(5) 1666 Dulverton, Somerset
(6) 1667 St. Peter, West Riding, Yorkshire, Anglican

Two additional results (1662 and 1664) showed no given name. Both were for St. Mary, Woodbridge, Suffolk, Anglican. The 1664 record said "Extended Information: Wife" (presumably that means the burial was of a Denton wife).

The more explicit argument with respect to the Yorkshire accent is that Yorkshire residents would recognize an Englishman who was not a native of York. It would make sense for the church to send a native of York back to York to preach to the flock.

As a shot in the dark, I searched FindMyPast for Wills and Probates in 1657 in Essex and Yorkshire on the off chance a decedent name might ring a bell. But no luck and I really did not expect to find anything. The legatees/beneficiaries would likely not appear as searchable in the database records.

Ship Lists

It appears that the confusion about the timing of Rev. Denton's voyage to America has arisen from the inclusion of his name in the 1957 Charles Banks book listing emigrants to New England from 1620 to 1650. While I have not seen the entry in that book for Rev. Denton, it may have been an entry for him as a passenger on the James which made a number of trips to Massachusetts in the 1630's. Charles Banks' book is called "Topographical Dictionary of 2885 English Emigrants to New England 1620-1650" (1957).

The authors of ships lists on Packrat.com apparently checked the actual passenger lists against the lists in Bank's book and created a page called “Unsolved.” On that page they say:

"The following names are listed in Charles Banks [book]...with and without ship names..."

Then they go on to say:

"If there is a ship name, the passenger name does not appear on that particular ship list as I have found it."

Then on the following list, they include Reverend Denton's name along with the ship name James. Because the name of the ship is included in the listing for Reverend Denton, Packrat is asserting that his name actually does NOT appear on the Jame's list of passengers. The following is Rev. Denton's entry on that list:

"Denton, Richard Rev. from North Owram, York, aboard the James, bound for Wethersfield, and Stamford, CT. Ref: NEGR 11/241 36 pg 189"

In addition, Reverend Denton's name appears on the Packrat page for the April 6, 1635 voyage of the James from London to Massachusetts Bay. But Rev. Denton's name does NOT appear in the list of passengers. Rather his name appears in a short list labelled “NOT DONE:: Banks also lists for one of the James: … Denton, Richard Rev....”

My interpretation of the above is that Banks erroneously listed Reverend Denton as a passenger on the James, perhaps the 1635 voyage. Supporting that interpretation would be his departure from Turton for Coley by about 1632 and Rev. Heywood's (1630-1702) statement that Rev. Denton remained at Coley for about 7 years (i.e. until about 1638-40). To be absolutely certain, I guess we would need to see the actual Charles Banks' book entry and the actual passenger lists.

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/48159/TopDictNewEngland-007556... is the ancestry page from Banks.

I am not certain that it's an error - the report of 7 years at Coley could be unreliable. What you probably want is the NEGR publication and examine the context.

The notion that Rev. Denton arrived in Boston with the Winthrop fleet in 1630 appears to arise from Benjamin Thompson's 1843 book "The History of Long Island from the Discovery to the Present Time" at page 19. Thompson says that:

"[Rev. Denton] probably arrived in New England, with Governor Winthrop, in 1630..."

But Thompson's timeline was wrong. While he stated that Rev. Denton graduated from Cambridge in 1623, he then said Rev. Denton spent the next 7 years at Coley. Therefore, Thompson deduced that Rev. Denton must have sailed with the Winthrop fleet in 1630. But Thompson apparently did not know that Rev. Denton had first spent about five years at Turton before he spent his 7 years at Coley. (See the "CCEd Clergy of the Church of England Database.")

What is the NEGR publication?

NEGR 11/241 36 pg 189. I'm not good at interpreting the abbreviations for the periodical, but I'd guess volume 36, page 189.

Banks has him on the 1635 James from London. You could correlate whereabouts against the extant baptism records of his children. Also if he was a Presbyterian "missionary" in a sense, could have gone back and forth. The most significant piece I take is "North Owram, York."

Here's an index to the volumes

https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/New_England_Historical_Genealogica...

I had not noticed your post about the potential unreliability of the 7 years when I posted the note about Thompson. I agree that the 7 years might not be accurate. But because the source was a successor preacher at Coley only removed by a decade or two, I would give it the benefit of the doubt for the moment. Still, you are absolutely right to suggest checking the sources.

Thanks for the reference.

Actually Banks does not give the year of the James, it's a page tracking who was from Yorkshire. Edmund Wood was from South Owram and also bound for Wethersfield, no ship given, Miner Genealogy, page 50.

That would be this Edmund Wood, Jr., of Oakham

And look it that. Also from Halifax Parish, and a follower of Rev Denton

"Edmund Wood was one of many who joined the Puritan movement with Richard Denton to New England. They sailed on the ship "James" - He and his five children - He was widowed at the time. They ended up settling in Hempstead, NY. He met Capt. John Underhill in 1643."

You really need to study that James of London list, it was his flock, in England and America (they stuck with him & followed him around). It's possible he organized it and came on a later ship, but I would think it more likely he could have returned. Or the English source has mistakes.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rothlisberger/rot...

"We are indebted to Richard Mather, a Lancashire minister, who was to emigrate in The James for a detailed account of their voyage from Bristol. ..."

This was Cotton Mather's grandfather, and according to Cotton's sketch of Rev. Denton, they knew each other on the ship over.

https://books.google.com/books?id=LkAsLiLKWS8C&lpg=PA219&ot...

Pilgrims: New World Settlers & the Call of Home By Susan Hardman Moore page 196

Listing Rev Denton by "ministers from York"

Rev Denton not listed in Rev Mather's account of the voyage

https://archive.org/stream/journalofrichard00mathuoft#page/n7/mode/2up

I had just taken an evening break and then came back to the results of your research and efforts.

All I can say is WOW!!

I will pick this up in the morning. Amazing what a little knowledge, research and effort can uncover. So tantalizing to be seemingly so close.