Richard Denton, lll, Reverend - The Origins of Reverend Richard Denton

And, there were no other Richard Dentons born in Hertfordshire between 1581 and 1591.

One thing I note about Moore's Hempstead History is that we know he did not have the proper birth order of Rev. Denton's sons. He thought Daniel was the eldest but Daniel (1632) was the youngest. He thought Nathaniel was only a probable son but we know he was number two son born at Turton in 1629. He included Samuel (1631) but missed Tymothie (1627). With those mistakes, might he have made others.

Below is a list of all Richard Dentons born in England between 1609 and 1637. (The columns are a bit messy but hopefully you can decipher it.) You will note that the baptism dates for the Richards born in 1627, 1631 and 1632 all conflict with known children of Rev. Richard Denton -- Tymothie in 1627, Samuel in 1631 and Daniel in 1632. Twins perhaps? The son of a brother perhaps? Otherwise, you have to go back to Richard baptised on Mar 24 1613 in St. Albans, only a few months after the marriage of a Richard Denton and Helen Windebank on 16 Nov 1612 at Southwark, St. Saviour in Surrey (London).

Name Date Father Place County
Richard 1609 Jul 31 Richard Prescot Lancashire
Richard 1612 Jul 26 Christopher Easington Durham
Richard 1612 Mar 24 Rich St Albans Hertfordshire
Richard 1613 Mar 24 Rich St Albans Hertfordshire
Richard 1613 Mar 5 Myles Bridge Kent
Richard 1617 Nov 9 John Easington Durham
Richard 1617 Sep 28 John Langton by Wragby Lincolnshire
Richard 1627 Dec 8 ? Horncastle Lincolnshire
Richard 1627 Feb 16 George Finningley Nottinghamshire
Richard 1627 Aug 29 Lancelott Crosby Garrett Westmorland
Richard 1627 Nov 25 Richard Normanton Yorkshire
Richard 1628 Mar 22 Xpr Brothertoft Lincolnshire
Richard 1631 Apr 10 Rich Yorkshire (West Riding)
Richard 1632 Mar 4 Richard Fishlake Yorkshire
Richard 1635 May 31 Thomas Easington Durham
Richard 1635 Jun 21 John Leeds Yorkshire
Richard 1637 Apr 31 Thomas Feltwell Norfolk

OK I've made new profiles for Richard Denton, of St. Albans & Richard Denton, Jr. & put Sarah Thorne, {Fictional} back as possible daughter.

If I remember, DA Combs couldn't find a Sarah wife of Thorne on LI, and suggested maybe he was of Roxbury ... Which would put her possibly with Richard Denton, of Dorchester

But there are Thornes in the Denton orbit, I think she needs more work.

Do these two Richard's conflict with other birth dates?

Richard 1631 Apr 10 Rich Yorkshire (West Riding)
Richard 1632 Mar 4 Richard Fishlake Yorkshire

I will add the 1613 Richard to the St Albans tree.

Moore wouldn't have known about Timothy who likely died young.

I was just thinking that Richard Junior could have been a nephew.

Yes, those Richards conflict with Samuel (1631) and Daniel (1632). And, yes, his absence from later histories make it likely Timothie died young.

Just to add a little more confusion, here are some Krumm excerpts about Hempstead and Richard, Jr. http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=kerry...

"Connecticut Ancestry," periodical published by the Connecticut Ancestry Society, Inc., Dec. 2004, Vol. 47, No. 2: "Meeting the Reverend Richard Denton (1603 - 1663?)," by Walter C. Krumm:

At long last Denton's group was "home" but where was he? No original "map of early homeowners," if there was one, has survived. Researcher George D. A. Combes has compiled a careful listing of the "Fifty Original Proprietors of Hempstead" based on surviving land and other records, but did not list Denton among.(11) Two letters he (Denton) sent to Dutch authorities duringthis period have survived in the New York State Archives in Albany.(12) The first document, dated 5 March 1650, was signed by him and six other persons in a petition against the sheriff of Flushing. The second, written one year later on 18 April 1651, was addressed to Pieter Stuyvesant, governor of New Netherland. It was a desperate appeal for the governor's help to compel John Carman to repay his debt to Denton, whose family was suffering from their lack of funds. The first letter was written from Mashpeag (now Flushing) and the second from Middleborough (later Newtown), both westward on Long Island from Hempstead. In the second of these letters (from which an image of his signature is reproduced alongside this paragraph(13)) he begged Stuyvesant to "help me in these my sad straits and wrongs," and said that he was in a condition of: "... not having [funds] either to pay my debts or to supply my wants unless I should sell the be[ ] [apparently meaning to sell his bed] from under me or what else is as necessary for our subsistence."(14)

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Walter C. Krumm, "Who Was The Rev. Richard Denton?," NYGBR, 117[1986]:163-6, 211-8." 2. The periodical "The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record," 120[1989]:10-17, 94-97, 160-163; 121[1990]:221-225, etc., "Descendants of the Rev. Richard Denton," by Walter C. Krumm.

[*Some genealogists have included Richard Denton of Dorchester, Mass., as a son of Rev. Denton. There is nothing to connect the two except for their names and the fact that there seem to have been no other Dentons in New England or New Netherland at this time. If he was in fact Rev. Denton's son, he was probably the youngest; one must then wonder when and where he was born, and how and when he came to Dorchester. Since he produced no offspring, his exclusion here will not muddy any lineages. Only two items about him survive:

1) On 11 10th mo. [Dec.] 1657 Richard Denton married Miss Ruth Tileston in Dorchester, Mass., Major Atherton performing the ceremony (Reg. 11:332). The bride, a dau. of Thomas & Elizabeth Tileston (Reg. 13:121), was bap. "8mo: tertio:" [3 Oct.] 1641 ("Records of the First Church Dorchester in New England 1636-1734," Boston 1891, p. 153) and d. 5 Dec. 1677 (Reg. 5:399).

2) Richard d. 26 Dec. 1658 in Dorchester, only a year after the wedding (Reg. 16:80). His estate inventory, filed 6 Oct. 1659 by Abraham How and John Minotte, totaled £57-5s., all left to his widow (Reg. 9:347).]"

That leaves this one from Yorkshire

Richard 1627 Nov 25 Richard Normanton Yorkshire

But that Richard conflicts with Tymothie 23 July 1627.

That goes back to the St Nicholas Society discussion. So interweaving:

1638, Denton and a few of his followers were invited to settle in what is now Stamford, CT. where a dispute occurred within the church over a proposal by some church members to limit baptism to full church members. Denton opposed this. He and more than one-quarter of the inhabitants of Stamford including most of those who had accompanied him from Wethersfield decided to leave.

They purchased a 16 mile plain on Long Island from the Rockaway Indians. This is what is now called Hempstead, Long Island. The deed was signed on Dec. 13, 1643.

1644 we find the Denton Group of 28 families in Hempstead on Long Island. They secured a patent from the Dutch administration in New Amsterdam. [I presume the Rev is on the patent?]

1647 - list of proprietors https://archive.org/details/earlyhistoryofhe00moor page 8

1650 - begs for money from Flushing (that's western Queens).

1651 - begs for money from Newtown (that's eastern Queens, Long Island City / Elmhurst, I have a possible ancestor with a lot there, I'll look up Bergen's book & see if he's listed)

1657 - they accepted the invitation of Gov. Peter Stuyvesant to settle in the newly created area of Jamaica, Long Island. Gov. Stuyvesant was trying to get more Calvinists in his colony.

1657 - Denton looks for position in Virginia

1659 - goes to England

1670 - Daniel Denton visits England with his "good news about Elizabeth town.". It is guessed that he was also settling any estate of the Rev in England but no probate etc records found.

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Why is someone of means before emigration (say 1638) crying about money in 1650, only a dozen years later?

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Ruth Tilerson was baptized in 1641 and married at age 16 (young for a Puritan). Her husband would have been over 21 I believe, so that puts him born before 1636 and dead in 1658. The Long Island Denton girls who supposedly have Richard Jr as a father were born 1657 - 1668. There's no mention of Denton associates in Dorchester & no mention of Tilerson associates on Long Island. In 1657 Richard Jr. would have been settling Jamaica, New York, and probably marrying a Dutch woman (two daughters have Dutch names). The other daughter is Phebe, which is a name we've seen in two other grand daughters of Rev Denton.

57 pound estate of Richard of Dorchester, that's substantial for that era. Either he came over packing silver or he did real well in the colonies (which ups his birth date). Can't imagine he would be letting his father & brothers starve in the Long Island wilderness.

So let's postulate that Richard Jr is a nephew or cousin. Well, would have to be a cousin, as all the fathers in Yorkshire or Lancashire are also Richard ...

Richard 1609 Jul 31 Richard Prescot Lancashire
Richard 1627 Nov 25 Richard Normanton Yorkshire
Richard 1631 Apr 10 Rich Yorkshire (West Riding)
Richard 1632 Mar 4 Richard Fishlake Yorkshire

There's this guy but he's too young
Richard 1635 Jun 21 John Leeds Yorkshire

Here's the Major Atherton who performed the marriage of Richard of Dorchester and young Ruth Tilerson

Maj.-Gen. Humphrey Atherton

Quoting Walter C. Krumm again:

From http://www.myfamilysearch.net/getperson.php?personID=I3198&tree...

The Heath Grammar School was founded in 1585 under royal charter for instruction in classical languages. "It possesses close scholarships at Oxford and Cambridge Universities." Probably the education at this school enabled Denton to attend St. Catherine's Hall at Cambridge (some 150 miles south of Halifax) 1621-1623, where he was graduated as an Anglican priest. Almost immediately thereafter he was ordained a deacon at Peterborough Cathedral.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_Grammar_School

Heath souvenir booklet

http://heatholdboys.org.uk/memories/Heath_School_1585-1985.pdf

Great find re Heath Grammar School! Hopefully there will be some records available.

Re Richard of Dorchester -- curiouser and curiouser. I agree it is difficult to understand the contrast between the size of his estate and the financial needs of the Reverend. Even more difficult to understand if they were father and son.

Statutes of the grammar school at Halifax are page 697 on In The History and Antiquities of the Parish of Halifax, in Yorkshire
By John Watson

https://books.google.com/books?id=hDlTAAAAcAAJ&vq=Denton&pg...

Here's from JAMAICA, LONG ISLAND, NY, HISTORY The History of Long Island, from its earliest settlement to the present time. Peter Ross. NY Lewis Pub. Co. 1902

http://dunhamwilcox.net/ny/jamaica_li_hist.htm

Where the first settlers came from is a point that hs not been exactly determined, but there is little doubt that they came over from Connecticut with the view of establishing a religious colony, or rather a colony where religious tolerance might be enjoyed. Those who signed the request to Stuyvesant, therein described themselves as "inhabitant of the town of Hempstead and settlers of this province," so it is very likely that some of them had been for a time residing in Hempstead and spying the land. They told the Governor that they wanted "a place to improve our labors upon; for some of us are destitute of either habitation or possession, others, though inhabited, find that in the place they are they cannot comfortably subsist by their labours and exertions." So they asked for the Governor's consent to settle on a tract of land "called Conorasset and lyes from a river which divideth it from Conarie see to the bounds of heemstead, and may contain about twenty families." This tract they had already "bought" from the Indians for "two guns, a coat and a certain quantity of powder and lead." Stuyvesant had to be petitioned three times before he consented, but when he did confirm the request he did it in a most handsome manner, giving them permission to elect magistrates and conduct their affairs on the same lines as Brooklyn, Midwout and other Dutch towns.

The names of the petitioneres were Robert Jackson, Nicholas Tanner, Nathaniel Denton, Richard Everit, Rodger Linas, Daniel Denton, John Eazar, Abraham Smith, Thomas Ireland, Thomas Carle, Edward Spray, John Rhoades, Andrew Messenger and Samuel Matthews. These fourteen may therefore be regarded as the first citizens of Jamaica. By 1660, when Stuyvesant gave the town a regular charter and the name of Rusdorp, there were some forty additional freeholders in the town. It was a little republic in itself; its town meeting regularly settled all its affairs and even regulated who should and who should not be admitted to citizenship. One Benjamin Hubbard, for instance, in 1649 had bought a house lot without having first obtained the sanction of the town meeting, so it required him to give assurance of his good behavior.

Of course with such additions to the population more land had to be secured from the local Indians from time to time, and we find several records of purchases made in exchange for such articles as soldiers' coats, kettles, "bottles of licker," powder, lead, guns, blankets and the like. The value of the Donegan patent of 1686 was that it clearly defined the limits of the township and showed that several of the original patentees were still prominent in the town.

The names given in this patent were, Nicolas Everit, Nathaniel Denton, Nehemiah Smith, Daniel Denton, John Oldfields, William Creed, Bryant Newton, Benjamin Coe, Jonas Wood, William Foster, John Everit, Edward Higbie, Daniel Whitehead, John Carpenter, John Furman, Samuel Smith, Richard Rhodes, Thomas Lamberson, Joseph Smith, George Woolsey, John Baylis, Thomas Smith, Wait Smith and Samuel Mills.

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I've met several of the Smiths - Wait Smith is the brother of the Sarah Smith I can't find proof of, who married Nathaniel. Here's her non burial record

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=142935926

Notice the children's names: Nathaniel, Samuel, Richard, Phebe, Maria.  All Denton names.

I found this description of early Flushing fascinating:

http://www.bownehouse.org/Designed_for_the_Good_of_All_Tabetha_Garm...

The Bowne House, still standing, would have been similar to the Denton homes in Jamaica.

http://www.bownehouse.org/house_history.htm

OK, I've found some compiled information relevant to Geertje Losee

Extracting from

The Dutch families of Losee, Koeck, Denton & Brush in New York, mid 1600's

https://www.ancestry.com/boards/surnames.lamoreaux/181/mb.ashx & http://www.ininet.org/the-dutch-families-of-losee-koeck-denton--bru...

Who cites "Annie A Van Cott The Female Ancestors of Losee Van Cott in America & Europe"

Richard Denton, father and sons (Samuel, Richard, Nathaniel & Daniel /historian/ & Thos Ireland & Urs Washburn.) and several of his parishion ers, aggrieved at the limited franchises granted the town of Stamford by the New Haven Colony, left the jurisdiction of England and took up land under the Dutch Government on the south side of Long Island. They named the town Hempstead after Hummel Hempstead, a town near London, England, where some of the people came from. Denton became the first min ister of Hempstead and is said to have been the founder of Presbyterianism in America. He had been ordained in the Church of England but was won over to the Puritan side. In L.I. he did not please a large part of the settlers, many of whom had been accustomed to forms of language and style very different from his and they were so widely scat tered that they could not readily attend church at one place. By 1650 the orders to attend church could not be enforced and his wages were not paid”

1687 Long Island, NY "Cornelius Losee, son of Cornelius Losee and Grietje Tilburgh married to Geertje Denton of Jamaica, Long Island daughter of Richard Denton Jr. 10 children are listed for them.

“Names of Persons for whom Marriage lisceneses were issued by the secretary of the Province of New York previous to 1784. #974.7 V25m Page IV & V

1687 abt of Oyster Bay, NY Cornelius Losee & Geertje Denton marry

Children listed on the Cornelius Losee & Geertje Denton family Group sheet are; Simon Losee, Jonathan Losee, James Losee, Daniel Losee, Hannah Losee, Abraham Losee, Isaac Losee, Cornelius Losee, Elizabeth Losee, and Jane Losee.

Family Group Sheet by Isabelle Lamoreaux Cluff

“Cornelius Losse Jr., son of Cornelius & Geertje Tilburgh [written in] took the oath of allegiance as a native in Brunswick in 1687 together with his father and brother, Pieter. He married Geertje Denton of [Oyster Bay is crossed out- Jamaica written in.] sup. A daughter of Richard Denton Jr. (see Denton Family) and lived in Oyster Bay and was alive in 1742.

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Also a note on the naming rhythm of the Dutch / English / French families:

McCullough, David W. Brooklyn …and How it Got that Way. Pp7-8

"If a child died the parents had habit of bestowing its name on the arrival of the same gender and this was often repeated several times in case of a succession of early deaths. If either husband or wife died it was considered polite to name the first child of the new marriage after the departed spouse. The first son was almost always named for his paternal grandfather, and the second after his maternal grandfather and after these the uncles were honored. The girls maternal grandmother was first honored then the paternal grandmother and so on. This makes it comparatively easy for the genealogist to locate family names. Certain names were thus maintained through many generations."

I double checked the Lancashire Online Parish Clerks registers for any Denton during the period 1611-1635 to make sure I did not miss anything. Of course, Tymothie and Nathaniel showed again. But there definitely were no Richards. Where was Rev. Denton between his graduation and ordination in 1624 and Tymothie's birth in July 1627? I checked what non-FindMyPast and non-FreeReg baptism records I could find for Cambridgeshire, but there was nothing.

I'm trying to confirm

"“Cornelius Losse Jr., son of Cornelius & Geertje Tilburgh [written in] took the oath of allegiance as a native in Brunswick in 1687 together with his father and brother, Pieter. He married Geertje Denton of [Oyster Bay is crossed out- Jamaica written in.] sup. A daughter of Richard Denton Jr. (see Denton Family) and lived in Oyster Bay and was alive in 1742."

Most have her as the daughter of young Ruth Tileson & Richard Denton of Roxbury & born after he died. My next step is to try and find more about her sister Phebe.

Why would one have a Dutch name and one an English name? Suggests different mothers, if indeed the Phebe who married Richard Tupper belongs to the apocryphal Richard Denton Jr.

Your FindMyPast subscription will work on the NYGBR collection

http://search.findmypast.com/search-world-records/the-new-york-gene...

https://archive.org/stream/cu31924092207764#page/n455/mode/1up

1683, William Smith of Fosters Meadow, Hempstead sells 50 acres to Richard Denton living in Jamaica NY,

OK, that's this guy https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Denton-401 (son of Nathaniel)

I'm beginning to wonder if Richard Jr is fabricated in some way

Perhaps naming conventions and/or record keeping conventions at that time were like the latinization of names in England. Also, the English capture of Manhattan in 1664 may have had some role to play in how names were given and/or recorded.

Thanks for the heads up re NYGBR.

We have seen fabrications in the past.

A Timothius Denton, son of Richardi, was buried in Halifax on 28 Jul 1631. Timothy was such a rare given name I found no Denton in all of England baptised with that name between 1570 and 1650, other than the Reverend's. Here is the record.

Yorkshire, bishop's transcripts of burials Transcription
Record set Yorkshire, Bishop's Transcripts Of Burials
First name(s) Timothius
Last name Denton
Burial year 1631
Birth year -
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Burial place Halifax
Father's first name(s) Richardi
Age at death -
Burial date 28 Jul 1631
Archive Borthwick Institute for Archives
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from England, United Kingdom
Transcription © DC Thomson Family History

Great find on Timothy's death record, I'll update the profile. I wonder if the name is for the mother's side - what # son is he again?

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If there was a Richard Jr he should be either 1st son, named for grandfather Richard, or 3rd son, named after the Rev.

If there's an error / fabrication, I would think

- that Phebe who married Richard Tupper was a daughter of one of the other sons & this was an additional marriage

- that Geertje / Coortje of Jamaica / Oyster Bay who married Cornelius Losee has a confused record, which I can't find grrr

- that the hempstead proprietors list has an error in being put together.

On the other hand, wouldn't we expect the Rev to indeed have has a Richard Jr son?

Perhaps another piece of the puzzle: the burial of an unnamed child of Richi Denton in Halifax on 09 Feb 1625. The date fits between a Cambridge typical graduation in Jan. 1624 and birth of Tymothie in July 1627. Here is the record:

Yorkshire, bishop's transcripts of burials Transcription
Record set Yorkshire, Bishop's Transcripts Of Burials
First name(s) -
Last name Denton
Burial year 1625
Birth year -
County Yorkshire (West Riding)
Country England
Burial place Halifax
Father's first name(s) Richi
Age at death -
Burial date 09 Feb 1625
Archive Borthwick Institute for Archives
Category Birth, Marriage & Death (Parish Registers)
Subcategory Deaths & burials
Collections from England, United Kingdom
Transcription © DC Thomson Family History

Tymothie (1627) was the first known son with Nathaniel (1629) second, Samuel (1631) third and Daniel (1632) third. If the unnamed Richi Denton child who died in 1625 belonged to the Reverend, then Tymothie would be number two, of course.