Richard Denton, lll, Reverend - The Origins of Reverend Richard Denton

Do we know anything about him losing an eye? Is the Cotton Mather reference to it the only one?

Good info re the naming conventions.

Still nothing about loss of the eye.

I'm still wondering "Why did he go to St Peter to have his children baptized? It's not odd, I'm just wondering why he didn't do it himself."

An obvious answer, to me, could be that St Peter's was his wife's home church. Family to serve as godparents, etc. I think the St Peter's records could be looked at again.

Yes, I have been wondering about the Bolton/Turton connection, as well. In fact, I had just been checking some further information as shown below. You might look at the lists of ministers' names on the linked sites to see if any ring a bell.

Bolton le Moors was considered part of the Chester Diocese. Turton chapel was a "Parochial chapel" under Bolton le Moors. In the CCEd database its Location ID is 5369. See http://ccedb.cch.kcl.ac.uk/jsp/locations/index.jsp?locKey=5364 (Click on "Bolton le Moors, Turton chapel" in the list at the top.)

The CCEd database for Turton shows Rev. Denton there in 1628 but the next priest listed is John Isherwood in 1662. The St. Anne's, Turton, web site, however, shows Rev. Denton being succeeded by Mr. Boden in 1632 and a number of different ministers up to Richard Atherton in 1671 (not including John Isherwood). http://www.northturton.com/Chapeltown/st.annes_01.html#Clergy Perhaps the differences between the two lists reflect the turbulence of the times.

I also wondered why Rev. Richard Denton's CCEd records (Person ID 33942) did not include Coley from 1632, but now I know. His appointment to Coley is listed under the name "Roger Denton" (Person ID 134825). The CCEd shows his appointment as Curate at Coley being on 2 May 1633. http://ccedb.cch.kcl.ac.uk/jsp/search/index.jsp Below is the CCEd record:

Person: Denton, Roger (0 - 1633)
CCEd Person ID: 134825

ORDINATION EVENTS
09/03/1623 (Dove, Thomas/Peterborough 1601-1630)
TYPE NAME DATE STATUS EVENT
Ord Denton, Roger 09/03/1623 deacon ordination

08/06/1623 (Dove, Thomas/Peterborough 1601-1630)
TYPE NAME DATE STATUS EVENT
Ord Denton, Roger 08/06/1623 priest ordination

APPOINTMENT EVENTS
Curate : Coley chapel (05/02/1633 )
TYPE NAME DATE OFFICE EVENT LOCATION
Appt Denton, Roger 05/02/1633 Curate Licensing Coley/

FYI: The CCEd information about Coley chapel is listed under Location ID 235175. http://ccedb.cch.kcl.ac.uk/jsp/locations/index.jsp?locUnitKey=27899

It appears that the dates used by the CCEd could be misleading. We know that Tymothie was baptised 23 Jul 1627 in Bolton but the CCEd shows his appointment date at Turton as 3 Jul 1628. We also know that Samuel was baptised 29 May 1631 in Halifax but the CCEd shows his appointment date at Coley as 2 May 1633.

You have been wondering why Rev. Denton went to St Peter in Bolton to have his children baptized. I would note that when he was at Coley, the baptisms of Samuel and Daniel were noted as being in Halifax. Perhaps the designation of "Halifax" represented the entire parish, including Coley, but... Maybe he believed baptism by a third party priest was more kosher.

I checked "The History and Antiquities of the Parish of Halifax, in Yorkshire," John Watson (1775), hoping it might shed some light on the Maria Durden baptised in Heptonstall in 1604. Unfortunately, I found nothing.

Just FYI: Rochdale is analagous to Alsace-Lorraine, claimed by many. It is located at an intersection of several different historical English counties. While in modern times it has been considered part of Lancashire, in early times it was considered part of West Riding and Yorkshire. You can see an overlay map showing Yorkshire, Lancashire and the Ridings at this link: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/Maps/Ridings.html

The CCEd classifies it as part of the Chester Diocese and describes it as being in the County of "Lancashire, West Riding, Yorkshire."

I browsed through the surname indeces of the registers for St. Peter, Bolton but found no familiar names (other than Tymothie and Nathaniel Denton): Baptisms (1573-1635), Marriages (1573-1661) and Burials (1573-1632).
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Bolton-le-Moors/Great-Bolton/stpeter/inde...

Just FYI: There were some Knowles and Mathers among the names.

Rev. Denton's profile shows him as the father of a Sarah Thorne born in 1623 in Devon. I did a search on FindMyPast.com for baptisms of a Sara Denton covering the period from 1610 to 1635. The only Sara Denton baptised in Devon was the daughter of a William Denton on 7 Aug 1627. Of all the other Saras, only one was the daughter of a Richard Denton ("Richi") in Stainland, Elland, baptised at St. Mary on 21 Mar 1618.

This connection to the Rev. Denton appears unlikely.

Rev. Denton's profile shows him as the father of a "Richard Denton, of Dorchester" born c.1625 in Halifax. I did a search on FindMyPast.com for baptisms of Richard Dentons with a father of Richard Denton covering the period from 1625 to 1635. There were only two. One was the Richard Denton baptised in Fishlake on 4 March 1632 (the same year Daniel Denton was baptised in Halifax). The other was baptised 10 Apr 1631 at St Peter & St Paul in Sheffield, Yorkshire (the same year Samuel Denton was baptised in Halifax).

This connection to the Rev. Denton appears unlikely.

Rev. Denton's profile shows him as the father of a John Denton born c.1636 in "Bolton, Yorks." I did a search on FindMyPast.com for baptisms of John Dentons with a father of Richard Denton covering the period from 1630 to 1640. There were only three. One was baptised in Royston on 08 May 1631 (the same year Samuel Denton was baptised in Halifax). The second was baptised in Normanton, Yorkshire on 01 Jan 1635. (Normanton is about 20 miles east of Coley.) The third was baptised in Walton-on-the-Hill, Lancashire on 31 May 1639, likely after Rev. Denton had already migrated to New England.

This connection to the Rev. Denton also appears unlikely.

The above searches for Sara, Richard and John were done for all of England.

Since I know little about baptism rules I decided to see what Puritans say :):)

https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/pca-bco-56-baptism-can-i-bapti...

I'm being a little facetious as this does not apply to the Rev's day, but it does seem like "it takes two."

This is the list of children in the Rev's profile overview, 9 total. Does the list need rewrite?

John DENTON b: 1618 in Yorkshire, England
Sarah DENTON b: 1623 in Wiltshire, England
Daniel DENTON b: 10 JUL 1626 in Coley Chap, Halifax, Yorkshire, England
Timothy DENTON b: 23 JUL 1627 in christening in Parish Church of Bolton, England
Nathaniel DENTON b: MAR 1627/28 in Turton, Bolton Priory, Lancaster, England c: 9 MAR 1628/29 in Parrish Church of Bolton, England
Richard DENTON b: 1620 in Halifax, West Riding, Yorkshire, England
Samuel DENTON b. 1631 in Halifax, West Riding, Yorkshire, England
Phebe DENTON b: 29 SEP 1634 in Stringston, Somersetshire, England
John DENTON b: 1636 in Hempstead, Long Island, Queens, Nassau County, New York

Questioned children of the Rev - bad dates in profile or not a child?

Sarah Thorne, {Fictional}

Richard Denton, of Dorchester

Notes in the profile for Richard Denton, of Dorchester

'''Richard DENTON''' was born in 1630 in Bolton, Yorks, England. He died on 26 Dec 1658 in Dorchester, MA.

I will resolve data conflicts to that date.

Two alternate Richard Denton, currently with the same parents

Richard Denton, 2nd, of St. John the Baptist parish

Richard Denton, 2nd, of St. Albans

The John noted as born in 1636 in Hempstead, Long Island predates Rev. Denton's move to Hempstead by at leat 5 years. If Rev. Denton was even in New England in 1636, he would have been in Watertwon or Wethersfield. Therefore, I would disconnect this John.

Of the 30 John Dentons born in all of England between 1613 and 1623, none of them had a father named Richard. The only John baptised in 1618 was born in Lincolnshire to an Edward Denton. Therefore, I would disconnect this John.

Of the 15 Sarah Dentons born in all of England between 1618 and 1628 only one was the daughter of a Richard Denton ("Richi") and that was in Stainland, Elland, baptised at St. Mary on 21 Mar 1618. I found no Sarah Denton baptised in Wiltshire in 1623. Therefore, I would disconnect this Sarah.

Of the 9 Richard Dentons born in all of England between 1615 and 1625 only two had a father also named Richard. One was baptised in Elland on 29 Apr 1621 and was from Stainland. The other was baptised in Elland on 23 Jul 1620 and was from Ould Lynlay. Also see my note above about Richard Dentons from 1630 to 1640.

I found no record at all for a Phebe Denton born between 1629 and 1639 in all of England. But her name does appear in Walter Krum's articles and I would tend to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

I can see how Rev. Denton might have been perplexed by the baptism ritual. I had taken a passing look at some of the theology surrounding baptism and realized it could lead to some interminable debates, so I quickly moved along.

There was a Richard Denton baptised at St. Albans Abbey on 5 Apr 1583 (his father was also named Richard). But I have not done any research indicating who he married or who may have been his children.

If I have failed to address an issue, let me know.

Yes, we need to reconcile children with Combes list, he has Sarah as a daughter

See http://newsfeed.rootsweb.com/th/read/DENTON/1998-04/0893734762

CHILDREN OF REV. RICHARD DENTON

According to George D. A. Combes, from the notes of William A.. D.
Eardeley, the following is a list of the possible children of Rev. Richard Denton.

1. Sarah Denton, born 1623-4, married about 1639 to William Thorne. ( Mr. Combes states that William Thorne of Hempstead and Flushing, L. I. did not have a wife named Sarah, but there was a William Thorne with wife Sarah at Roxbury, Mass., and perhaps this is the man whom Mr. Eardeley meant.) Sarah Thorne's tenth child was named Denton Thorne.
2. Daniel Denton, born 1626, died 1703, married first 1659 to Abigail Stevenson, daughter of Edward and Anne Stevenson, divorced June 26, 1672, he married second April 24, 1876 at Springfield, Mass. to Hannah Leonard, born Dec. 19, 1659, daughter of John and Sarah Heath Leonard.
3. Timothy Denton, born 1627, baptized July 23, 1627 at Parish Church, Bolton, Lancashire.
4. Nathaniel Denton, born 1629, died Oct. 18, 1690, married about 1652 to Sarah (possibly Sarah Smith; if so, she would seem to be the daughter of William and Magdalen Smith, who were early at Hempstead and Newtown.)
5. Richard Denton (there is no proof that he was Rev. Richard's son), born about 1630, married at Dorchester, Mass. on Dec. 11, 1657 to Ruth Tileston, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth Tileston. Richard died Dec. 28, 1658 at Dorchester, evidently leaving no issue. The widow Ruth married second 1663 to Timothy Foster.
6. Samuel Denton, born 1632-4, died 1713, married about 1656 to Mary Smith, daughter of John `Rock` Smith.
7. John Denton, born about 1636, married about 1664. It is stated "family

I would suggest that Combes' 1920's manuscript is not the right source to use for a reconciliation. While his work certainly deserves credit, it has been analyzed and corrected more recently with newer information by Walter Krumm.

The work by George D.A. Combes (1889-1941) and William A. D. Eardeley (d. 1936) was done in the early 20th century. The work by Walter Krumm was done from 1986 to 2004 including correcting his own work with new information. And, Krumm's work has been published by reputable organizations such as “The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record,” thus subjecting it to some peer review and scrutiny. In addition, Krumm not only studied the work of Combes and Eardeley, he apparently also obtained access to some of their original notes.

None of the above original sources are easily accessible. But the most comprehensive recitation of Krumm's work on Reverend Denton I could find appears on RootsWeb at the following link: http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=kerry...

In addition to the RootsWeb site, a good and well-sourced genealogy of Reverend Denton and his descendants appears in “Genealogical and Biographical Notes: Haring-Herring, Clark, Denton, White, Griggs, Judd and Related Families,” Judd (2004) starting at page 147. Here is a link to the Denton section of that book:

https://books.google.com/books?id=064ybBytdDcC&pg=PA147&lpg...

The Judd book has good citations to Krumm's work and others.

Krumm did analyze the evidence about Sara and Richard as children of Reverend Denton but concluded that the evidence did not support their inclusion. Both Krumm and Judd concluded the following was the most accurate list of Reverend Denton's children:

Tymothie Denton, son of Mr. Denton, preacher at Turton baptised 23 July 1627
Nathaniell Denton of Turton, son of Mr. Denton baptised 9 March, 1629
Samuel, son of Richard Denton, Minister of Coley baptised 29 May, 1631
Daniel, son of Richard Denton, Curate of Coley baptised 10 July 1632
Phoebe, dau. Of Richard Denton, minister of Coley baptised 30 Nov. 1634

I would suggest making this the base list of his children. If someone has evidence and arguments for the inclusion or exclusion of other children, then a decision can be made at that time. And, we must remember that we have not yet specifically identified which Richard the Reverend may be.

I should also mention another argument in favor of the Krumm list. With the possible exception of Phebe, each of the children in that list has at least three good supporting pieces of evidence. First, we have records of their baptisms (date, place and father). Second, we know from good evidence that Rev. Denton was in each of those locations at those times. Third, apparently accepted Denton family "tradition" supports each of them.

My hesitation with respect to Phebe is simply my inability thus far to see her baptism record, although it is said to exist at the West Yorkshire Archive Service.

Can you expand this list to include locations, death location / date (if known), spouse (their parents)? A good "child list" is, for me, essential to a good Master Profile.

Example:

3. Samuel Denton, baptised 29 May, 1631 at ?? [why I want the reference in one place] as son of Richard Denton, Minister of Coley. Died 1713 at [???]. Married about 1656 to Mary Smith, daughter of John `Rock` Smith.