God Almighty . - God Almighty is NOT your 85th Great Grandfather

I/we think that the word "GOD" can be used in a spiritual context as the Father that gave us all life on earth? Likened to Jesus saying on the Cross "Oh Father why how'st thee forsaken me"? And seeing our royal lineage comes from Cain & Abel times as Canaanite Samarians to Noah? God has played a pivotal role in those days of the old testament of Genesis? Pharaoh Akhenaten who was MOSES brother of our ancestor Pharaoh Smenkhari (Biblical Aaron father of Princess Scota in Egypt) always referred to the "Aten" as "Father" meaning "GOD" of the burning bush on Mount Sanai in Exodus!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Judaism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God

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RE Alice (Sutton) Radcliffe is still connected to Edmund Sutton ...

That's because she should be.

(one of multiple sources)

http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/online/content/dudley1439.htm

Sir Edmund Sutton mar. (2) Maude Harington (widow of Sir John Harington), 2nd dau. of Thomas [de Clifford], 8th Baron de Clifford, by his wife Joan Dacre, 1st dau. of Thomas [Dacre], 8th Baron Dacre, and had further issue:

3a. Alice Sutton, mar. Sir John Ratcliff, of Ordsal, co. Lancaster (d. 2 Feb 1527)

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I thought Ulf was referring to (she was not married to)

Edward Loftus, of Swineshead

... or it could be that the son John Radcliffe, of Derwent water is not sourced. That should raise eyebrows (I don't see that she had children)

I belive, that sometimes people get carried away, and I also believe that everybody with their minds in the right place, will agree with you Ben :-)

Kristian Longva First, Hej kusin!, secondly, there's no such thing like a "right mind", right in one time is wrong in another, right in one situation is wrong in another, it's ultimate guided by a set of laws and rules with minor and major differences between people around the globe.

We know what's measurable, traceable and visible, we trust what we can recognize with our senses, we analyze and use logical methods to comprehend our world. We use the methods and tools available to increase our understanding of the reality, we state the result as facts, we teach our children and transmit this knowledge onto them as the truth until the next paradigm shift occurs and brings it to an end which leads to generations living side by side with different perceptions of what's true and or real.

Pure logically, most Gods should once have been a real living person whom brought the old to an end with new ideas and values, pure biological a life after death should only be possible for the maggots in the corpses and the descendants of the dead, but then again, metaphysical questions about the nature of being and beyond that, ultimate states of other possible existences like a God and a spirit world, are impossible to define by any today measurable method, but since we anyway are still living in a world of ideas just as much as people in the ancient times did, we must accept different worldviews or face the inevitable bloodbath that follows when people will prove their view as the only right.

Hence, we should focus on what we possibly can do in our own nearer paths in the tree and care less about trying to solve the mystery of ancient gods possible or not connection to us. If we all do our best when it comes to source up our own parents, their parents etc, we will eventually achieve real dead ends, not mythological ones, except possibly just Odin, whom with no doubts once was a real breathing walking talking living man... ; )

I can only concur with what Harald Tveit Alvestrand had to say on 31/12/2016. It is not Geni's place nor function to work out God's ancestors or descendants. It can't be done anyhow.

King David of Israel / דוד המלך is your 97th great grandfather.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy_of_Jesus

If Jesus really had the cousins and siblings and offspring that some very smart people suppose he might have had, then of course we should be able to find and show the Genealogy Of Jesus. Are there living descendants of Jesus? Perhaps there are. It does seem possible and is more likely "true" than "not true", given the simple fact that Jesus was the son of a human woman who had relatives.

But, this does not mean that we are "related to God" in the same sense that we might be "related to Jesus". To claim God as an Nth Great Grandparent (or any other human "relation" such as a distant cousin) is the very height of human arrogance and is so disrespectfully egotistical to the very concept of "God" that I would expect that any "believer" who would dare to make such a claim is asking to be hit by a bolt of lightning.

It is for this reason (and others) that I believe it is a very bad idea to show a "relationship path" to "God Almighty", and I hope that these connections will be disconnected and stay disconnected.

There are no lines that meet modern genealogical proof standards that show anyone alive today is descended from:

1. Adam and Eve
2. King David
3. Jesus
4. Any person in the Bible

Nor are there any proven lines running through Europe that show anyone alive today is a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad. If you see these lines on Geni, it's because someone cares more about having a good story than about the fact of what can be proven.

And notice that all these lines run through the kings and nobility of medieval Europe. I suspect G-d did not intend people to use the Bible to play status games. ("If you're a descendant of European kings then you belong to G-d's family. If you aren't then you don't.") I don't think it's supposed to work that way.

You don't suppose those old kings made it up, do you?

Maybe they went around telling the peasants that G-d made David a king, and they are descended from King David, so everyone better do what the king says because he is G-d's appointed ruler.

Nah. That would be silly. It couldn't have been like that. No one has ever used religion to get political power ;)

As always, Justin brings both Intelligence and Wisdom to the Discussions.

When someone so qualified to assess the situation tells us that there are most likely no provable connections to Adam and Eve, King David, Jesus, or any person in the Bible, well then we can believe what we are being told. Maybe it's time to disconnect the World Tree from all the Fake nonsense so that we can better celebrate what is Real. Don't forget that truth is sometimes stranger than fiction, and that we might be pleasantly surprised by what we find when the "Relationship Paths" are set free to follow real pathways.

(And please note that Justin is so spiritually respectful to the concept of God that he won't even type the word, choosing instead to type "G-d".)

Dear folks, please let us not be greedy as for our noble ancestors. I brought this in another discussion:
* I do indeed believe that my parents are my genetical parents. However, I have no DNA proof with 99.99 % probability.
* My father did only tell us about our half sister in the last week of his life. I am grateful to him for her, she is a lovely person, so he could have told earlier. So much for dark secrets.
* Now some really simple mathematics: If delta is the decimal probability that the father is NOT really the genetic father, i.e. that somebody lied, then the probability that the father is the genetic father is 1-delta. With N generations from the child to a certain male predecessor, like a famous person, the probability that this male predecessor is really related this way is P=(1-delta)^N.
* With the P=0.5 (50%), and delta=0.005, 0.01, 0.02, 0.03, 0.04 or 0.05, then N=138, 69,39,23,17 or 14 generations with 50 % probability that the Nth grandfather is the given one.
* If you say that it is only 95% probable for each generation that the mother did not lie about the real fathers name, then one can track back the 14.th grandfathers name with 50 % probability.
* As for King David he is maybe N=95 generations away from me. If all parenthoods have a 1 % not-correct probability, then it is 38 % probable that I am related to King David in these 95 generations. If ... 3 % not-correct .. 0.1 % probable that .. in 95 generations.
* Please let us stick to facts and use thrust-worthy sources and DNA. Everything else like old family letters and alledged relationships or even the old testament have a lower probability of being true i.e. a lower credibility.
* Still, a relationship with Captain Kidd might lead to the gold treasure over that funny old book I inherited from my grand-grandfather who was a sailor ... ;) 😊

Czemu dostaję bez przerwy informacje o tej dyskusji, jeśli mnie ona nie dotyczy ?
Co trzy minuty komunikat. To jest straszne.

I translated the posting from Marek as follows using google:
"Why do I get all the time about this discussion, if it does not concern me? Every three minutes the message. It is terrible."

Answer: Then do not follow the profiles mentioned in the discussion.

Marek asks; Why do I get all the time about this discussion, if it does not concern me?
Every three minutes the message. It is terrible.

The answer is; Ponieważ jesteś "po" jeden lub więcej z wymienionych profili można uzyskać aktualne informacje o rozmowach dotyczących ich. To nie był problem w przeszłości dla innych członków.

( Because you are "following" one or more of the profiles mentioned you get updates about discussions concerning them. It has been a problem in the past for other members.)

Hakon and I cross-posted.

Same question, similar answer.

Gaye Jeanes,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Christianity#Trinitarianism

In today's world, Genetics is often used to prove similarities within each family group. However, as stated above, there is no way to prove a direct lineage to God by using Biblical names. However, this connection is created by faith alone and is why we can't prove God existed.

However, we can use family genetic markers that are found within each Haplogroup not to link us to God but to link us to those that lived long ago. Haplogroups are different within each family tree and are use to define each family group. Markers are also used to trace migration routes. Haplogroups are not the same in each family tree. These groups were meant to be different in each family group because people are not exactly the same. However, markers help researchers find migration routes for each family. These markers are often used to sort, or used to connect us to our ancestries. It's simply another way helping people to discover their past and to find their ancestries. Because Haplogroups are different, within each populations, we are able to find our ancestries and too we are able to learn more about our families because of the migration routes. Some of our ancestries have lived over 15,000 years ago. However, some have lived beyond this time frame making the lineages go further back in time.

Looking at results from each Haplogroup, we can determine each family group and the migration route that was used in that family. Haplogroups are used to find likeness and dissimilarities within all family sectors. Markers have similarities too, these similarities are always shared within the same family group. They also share in likeness the same migration routes. However, other people that have different markers have been reported using a different migration route. Some of these families, have been traced back 15,000 years ago. However, some people have markers much older than others meaning they have the oldest Haplogroup around today.

By sharing our Haplogroup with others around the world, we are able to learn more about our lineage. This connection makes it easier to connect to others living around the world. Different Haplogroups help others validate their own lineage. The more we share, our Haplogroups, the more we learn, about our past and perhaps we learn more about our future. Some people have Haplogroups that go beyond 15,000 years ago. This means some populations have been around longer than others making them the oldest group around today. We learn a lot by our Haplogroups, and can always learn more when we share with others.

Although, finding Biblical names linking us directly to God is impossible today, but know we can use genetic markers placing our families within certain events or time periods, rather it's from a Biblical reading or event or from a historical event that is factual or not. These Haplogroups open the door for many other discoveries within our family tree. Each Haplogroup, used a different migration route when migrating families. Each Haplogroup used a different migration route; and because the markers are different for each family, and because of this, it sets us apart from others and opens the door for us to learn new things. I'm told the Haplogroup X can be traced to Western Europe and it can also be traced to Northern Africa. Geographical areas can tell us a lot about our families and about their interactions within the world.

By looking at several different Haplogroups within a time line sheet, this information provides a much wider geographical view on each family migration route that provides a deeper clue about past times. Our past, is more than just connecting names. The geographical view is just another way to view our family history, to connect with any Biblical events and connect the past to our own family tree and stories. In short, the geographical view not only connects us to biblical events, but it also ties us to family events and to historical events.

No no definately not my 85th GG. He is my 120th great grandfather.

I am interested though how much Denisovans and Neanderthals dna Eve had, from her moms side ofcourse. When "one day can be as long or more then thousand years", there are plenty of time to rehearse. With all the respect to G_d, and creator who surely have many names <3

Genealogy really is a Bliss. It can bring people closer to each other from different cultures and it is a good and excellant tool for self search; understanding where we come from what our grandparents got through and so on. Understanding humanity and expand our perspective. And hopefully telling great stories to our kids and grandchildren. Lets not let the storytelling part die.

There are thousands and thousands ancestors with no names who we cannot learn about and I carry them with me as proudly as the "kings and queens".

Finding new cousins is also always great! Have a good New Year 2017 cousins :)

( I did not see a message in three minutes here, so I got a bit worried.)

Private User when you're making statements about what should be done, in a Norwegian line that you apparently don't know anything at all about, I start to wonder why certain people do genealogy at all when there must be better things to do that both fit their interests and talents, in some cases that could very well be doing nothing at all.

Ruben,

Earlier on in the discussion, Harald brought up the idea that Odin may have been a real person who achieved god-like status and was then later referred to as a God. I don't know the specifics, but I think he does. Maybe he will share some more of that story with us. My point is that if Odin was a real person then he just might be your Nth Great Grandfather . . .

Ulf,

Your post from this morning around 6:00 was excellent and much appreciated.

And Ulf, I don't think Ruben was trying to be anything else but curious and helpful. There are currently a few seasoned veterans working in very complex parts of the world tree, trying to respectfully repair a few questionable connections. Everyone is asking the same questions . . .where to cut and why . . .

The idea there might be a European line that could be documented before the Merovingians in about the 6th century has been called the Holy Grail of Genealogy. Everyone is looking. No one has found it. If you find it, you'll be famous forever and ever.

There are tons of fake lines. The Wikipedia article on Descents from Antiquity puts it this way:

"Such claims were intended as propaganda glorifying a royal patron by trumpeting the antiquity and nobility of his ancestry. These descent lines included not only mythical figures but also stretches of outright fiction, much of which is still widely perpetuated today. The distinguishing feature of a DFA compared to such efforts is the intent to establish an ancestry that is historically accurate and verifiable."

What Wikipedia neglects to say is that if you copy these fake lines your descendants will curse your name unto the seventh generation ;)

Every expert I know agrees with Wikipedia's summary:

"No DFA is accepted as established at this time. However, research has established the outlines of several possible or likely ancestries that could become DFAs."

This can't be emphasized enough -- there's nothing yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_from_antiquity

The idea that Odin was a man is a theory called euhemerism.

Although, strictly speaking, it depends on how you look at it. When a man becomes a god, that's deification. When a god becomes a human, that's euhemerization.

Christian missionaries did that to a lot of old, pagan gods. They told the people their gods were really just humans originally. "You can still be descended from Odin, but he wasn't a god." Same probably with the Welsh king Beli Mawr, who seems to have been a Celtic god originally, and Anna, supposedly a kinswoman of the Virgin Mary, but really the Celtic goddess Anu.

The earliest reference I know to Odin as a man comes from the Icelandic poet Snorri Sturluson (13th century). He said Odin was a man who came from Asia Minor "And whatever countries they passed through, great glory was spoken of them, so that they seemed more like gods than men."

Paul Henri Mallet (Northern Antiquities, 1711) thought Odin was really a man named Sigge Fridulfson. He wrote, "[Odin's] name was Sigge Fridulfson, or son of Fridulphe. Odin was the supreme god of the Scythians; Sigge and took that name, either because he had been able to pass for a man inspired by the gods, or because it was the first priest of the cult that made ​​the god Odin."

My childhood hero Thor Heyerdahl (died 2002) at the end of his life was working on the theory that Snorri Sturluson was right -- that Odin was chief of a tribe that came from Asia Minor. I'm not persuaded personally but it's very interesting.

http://www.wilmer-t.net/fornnorden/AncientNordic/HumanOdin.html

Justin Durand thanks for the Mallet reference - that "Sigge" name has been bothering me; it seems likely to me that Mallet just invented it. I added a brief section to the English "Odin" record to give the sources for the "Odin was a man" story. You can probably write it better, but it calls out the point better than what else is there!

Harald, so many of Odin's nicknames begin with Sig- that I think this could represent a genuine tradition, although how old it would be I wouldn't want to guess. For example, Sigtýr (Victory God), Sigðir (Victory Giver), and Sigföðr (Victory Father). I'd bet there's a paper in it for someone, someday.

Or that Mallet misinterpreted the plethora of "victory" names to mean that the original basis was "Sigge", not crediting the idea that "sig" as a prefix is descended from the same root as "sieg" (victory in German)... Erik the Victorious who founded Sigtuna was known as "Erik inn Sigrsæli" in Old Norse, according to Wikipedia....

A link to an 1848 English edition of Mallet, which contains more information:

https://books.google.com/books?id=DvUBAAAAYAAJ&amp;q=sigge#v=snippe...