Baetje Jans (van Hartenvelt) - where is "Haerdt"?

Started by Private User on Thursday, December 22, 2016
Problem with this page?

Participants:

Profiles Mentioned:

Related Projects:

Showing all 12 posts
Private User
12/22/2016 at 12:38 PM

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Blaeu_1645_-_Cl...

In these days the Rhine split just below Emmerich (1645) at Schenken Schans and the Northern branch went on in its now abandoned riverbed with AERDT and HARWERT on its western shore.
It is my thought that the name <VAN HARTENVELT> &/or <VAN HAERDT derives from this part of the Rhine basin.

I hope to find more background on this.
If we look at modern maps the river bed is much changed. But 1645 is significant era as it stands in the age of emigration for Denys Isaacszen Van Hartenvelt and Balthazar de Haerdt , two of the emigrants who I am researching in the https://www.geni.com/projects/Surrender-of-New-Netherland-1665-Sign...

Private User
12/22/2016 at 12:49 PM

the Dutch verb vellen means to cut down or fell...

12/22/2016 at 2:32 PM

How is "vellen" relevant? "velt" and "veld" may be interchangeable but "vellen" is a big change. Or am i missing something obvious?

I have always been of the opinion that "velt" is a geographical descriptor, similar to moorland. Changing the T to D gives you "veld", meaning field, which is not dissimilar.

Private User
12/23/2016 at 3:51 AM

It is only an impression on my part... I am thinking that velt is a past participle of vellen used as noun. Perhaps is similar to the English form fells (to fell {a tree} ~> felled ~> falls(way)...

Language is often has a great deal of 'hin und weg' in it...

In all of this I am not being certain or definitive. It is just an exploration of ideas.

Private User
12/23/2016 at 3:56 AM

All along I feel that regional designations, the "van or von" thing, do endure through the centuries.

As Aerdt and a small neighboring community with a similar name jump out at me on the 17th century map, I am wondering if all van Hart + suffix (Hert+ suffix) originated in that geographic are at that major fork of the Rhine. (see map)

Private User
12/23/2016 at 3:58 AM
Private User
12/23/2016 at 3:59 AM

"Hartwert" could easily have become Hartenvelt in my estimation.

Private User
12/23/2016 at 4:14 AM

I'm sorry : It's "Harwert" on the map... I have had a hard time finding out anything about neighboring <Schencken Shans> , the fortified looking settlement right in the crotch of the fork in the river. I wonder if it has anything to do with the well-to-do Schenck family?
Henrich Schenck van Nydeggen

I would wager that there would have been a need for all kinds of support to man Schencken Shans in and around 1645.... This would encourage residents to add the moniker "Ich bin von {the place where the Rhine splits or 'falls apart'} to their patronym.

I've always had a fascination with the lore of rivers.

Private User
12/23/2016 at 4:16 AM

schans (Dutch)
Origin & history
From German Schanze; cognate with English sconce
Pronunciation
(BE): IPA: /sxɑns/
(NL): IPA: /sχɑns/
Rhymes: -ɑns
Noun
schans (common) (pl. schansen, diminutive schansje)
a sconce or a similar type of fortification
a platform or ramp used for ski jumpers (or any similar sport) to gain elevation during their jumps

12/23/2016 at 4:35 PM

Maarten Schenk van Nydeggen

see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenkenschanz

Looking at GoogleMaps https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/Tolkamer,+Netherlands/Schenkensc...

The village of Schenkenschanz is a little south of the original fortress site, which seems to me to be the present town of Tolkamer, Harwert is now Herwen.

Private User
12/24/2016 at 6:26 AM
Showing all 12 posts

Create a free account or login to participate in this discussion