van Friesland branches

Started by Dorothy Smid on Thursday, October 20, 2016
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Dorothy, none of these sources are supporting the relationships you claim. These are just successions of rulers and general histories.

Tolkien was indeed a great medieval scholar, but his field was folklore and literature. He was not in any way suggesting these people were real or that the documents he was studying were proof of their relationships.

also research Pieter Feddes van Harlingen (1586–1623), was a Dutch Golden Age painter. His is the artist of all the profiles that are now attached to the van Friesland tree.

here is a search with all his works https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/zoeken?p=1&ps=12&f.classifica...

Justin some of the claims are not by me they just got merged with profiles I made in 20014.. BUT ...Richold II, derde koning der Friezen English king of the Friesians really did agsist. He was not fictional

Sharon wrote"I can't find sources that link Aldgisl as the son of Beroaldus, King of Friesland (Fictitious). He was not Fictitious.. Beroaldus, King of Frieslandwas a real person fighting very real wars... do more research before you make that claim.

Richold II, derde koning der Friezen, Pieter Feddes van Harlingen, 1618 - 1620
also https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/zoeken/objecten?p=1&ps=12&f.c...

and many others came be found IF you look hard enough Just because Wikipedia ends with Aldgisl doesn't mean many other source sites do.

Dorothy, kings like Richold and Beroald are ***legendary*** kings. There are no primary sources. They are named in old stories, and in the very popular genealogical forgeries of the 17th and 18th centuries.

You yourself posted a link to the English Wikipedia article "List of rulers of Frisia" that does not include them. That should be a warning you are on shaky ground with them, even if you had never heard of them before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Frisia

The fact that Pieter Feddes van Harlingen drew pictures of them 1000 years later is not proof that they existed. It's proof they were part of the genealogical legends current in his time.

I did some years ago come across a few sites regarding their wars .. but I cant find them now.

On one of the links I've posted it says

Under Redbad, the tide turned in favour of the Franks: in 690 the Franks were victorious in the battle of Dorestad under the Austrasian mayor of the palace, Pepin of Herstal.[8] Though not all the consequences of this battle are clear, Dorestad became Frankish again, as did the castles of Utrecht and Vechten (nl). It is presumed that the influence of the Franks now reached from south of the Oude Rijn to the coast, but this is not entirely clear because the influence of the Frisians over the central river area was not entirely lost. In any case there was a Catholic Church mission to pagan Frisia with a monastery and episcopal see in Utrecht from 695, founded for Willibrord,[9][10][11] and a marriage was arranged between Grimoald the Younger the oldest son of Pepin, and Thiadsvind, the daughter of Redbad, in 711.[5](p794)

The Redad father of Thiadsvind, .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redbad,_King_of_the_Frisians

I'm not sure if this is in her profile or not or in Redbad's But I thought it should be.
I read Radboud of Utrecht was the son of Grimoald the Younger and Thiadsvind, van Friesland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radboud_of_Utrecht .
Saint Radbod (or Radboud) (before 850 – 917) was bishop of Utrecht from 900 to 917.

He was a descendant of the last King of the Frisians. He spent his youth with his uncle Gunther, Archbishop of Cologne. After that, he served at the court of Charles the Bald.

When he was appointed as bishop of Utrecht in 900, the city was in ruins after a number of Norman raids. Like his predecessors, he was seated instead at Deventer.

He died in Ootmarsum in 917. His feast day is 29 November.

In the city of Nijmegen, the Netherlands, a university and a hospital are named after him: Radboud University Nijmegen and University Medical Center St Radboud, the latter being a part of the medical faculty of the university.

source of "Radbod, ruler of the Frisians"

In Richard Wagner's Lohengrin a certain "Radbod, ruler of the Frisians" is mentioned as Ortrud's father. It is possible that Wagner was thinking of the historical Radbod, although he died more than 150 years before the birth of Henry the Fowler, another character in the opera, who could not, therefore, be contemporary of Radbod's daughter.

In Harry Harrison's The Hammer and the Cross series of novels, Radbod becomes the founder of "the Way", an organized pagan cult, created to combat the efforts of Christian missionaries.

Black metal band Ophidian Forest recorded a concept album Redbad[8] in 2007.

Dutch folk metal band 'Heidevolk' recorded a song 'Koning Radboud' (King Redbad) on their 2008 album 'Walhalla Wacht' singing about the legend of Wulfram and Redbad.

I just find that very interesting

In 2015 the Frisian Folk-Metal band Baldrs Draumar[9] released a full album on the life and deeds of king Redbad called Aldgillessoan.[10] It is based on the book Rêdbâd, Kronyk fan in Kening[11] (Chronicles of a King) by Willem Schoorstra

Yes, might be. It's still funny how people could set born into 735 on her, despite sources telling us that her "father "died 719, it's twice funny that they also gave her a son born almost ten years before herself. Probably they used this as a source, but not even there they manage to make it right, born by 738. http://fabpedigree.com/s045/f940869.htm

He is a video/ song about King Radbod http://www.englisc-gateway.com/bbs/topic/34119-king-radbod-the-succ...

wish I knew where to get those pictures LOL

I didn't add Meile van Friesland to Geni she came with a merge ... some of the other children of Radbad I also didn't add to Geni. I can post what I found on other "TREE" site but no , I don't have any proof.

I am glad this is finally being discussed.. I always did question what I found and added to Geni about this branch. After today I have learnt allot.

One big question I have is Ygo II Gales Galama the fifth potestaat (or elected governor) of Friesland I did have him as a descendant of Radboud II ... NOw on his Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igo_Galama

it says
Sometimes, the name of Igo is written as Ygo II Galama, to avoid confusion with Ygo I Galama who would have been the Frisian king Beroald (540-597), and according to the stories won a victory over Dagobert (born 603), the son of the Merovingian king Chlothar II (ruled 613 - 629).

So my question is .... starting with Ygo II , could he be part of the van Friesland bloods line ? It does make any sense why his great great grandfather is born 750 and his mother was the daughter of Radboud II .Or was Radboud II his great great grandfather? That would make more sense and explain king Beroald (540-597) His Profile is some where on Geni . I cant find it now since he was disconnected to Radbad I

Sorry I meant it doesn't make any sense why his great great grandfather is born 750 and his mother was the daughter of Radboud II ...

BTW there are many fictitious profiles on Geni. so why not re-add the other profile back , make a few changes in cleaning up the double ... add Notes no there profiles saying they are legendary characters ?

Mostly because legendary characters don't give birth to real children, and some of these profiles are real people.

Okay - so we have no primary sources except for
-Redbod;
-the possibility that his predecessor, Angisl, is is his father;
-and the definite that Thiadsvind is his daughter.

I'n not getting any primary sources to back up any of the other wives or children; so I'm going to disconnect until we do.

Yes, there are fictitious profiles on Geni. It does no good to delete them because people will add them back. We keep them and label them fictitious so we don't cycle through the same problems over and over.

Currently we allow fictitious profiles to be linked to real parents and real spouses, but not to real children. As Sharon says, no real person should have fictitious parents. If you find someone who does, it means there has been a careless merge.

The Galama's do have real persons attached to the tree. but further up the tree yes there is ( I believe fictitious profiles leading to Gale Galama. I think I should make some changes to them and try to merge them all with the fictitious profiles that are not connected anymore.

Like you've mentioned .. others WILL re-add them all again and make a big mess.

Do I have your permission to connect the fictitious profiles back to the Galama branch? I will message you Justin with my findings and source before I make any changes to the main tree so you can go over it and either agree or disagree.

one source related to the Galama's
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Galama%27s

No need to message me. This should be a public discussion.

Bring out the duplicates and let's see what they are before we merge them.

Bring out the sources and let's see if they're primary sources before attaching anyone.

No problem... But first some of them are doubles and should be merged in the right order.

Start a Discussion from the profile, Dorothy.

Dorothy, when you cite sources you need to draw our attention to what it is specifically you want us to see.

Please limit your citations to sources that contain PRIMARY SOURCES. Primary sources are sources created in the lifetime of the person in question, or a reasonable amount of time afterwards.

Do not cite vanity websites. Vanity websites are sites that contain someone's version of their own genealogy without citations to primary sources.

Do not cite Fabpedigree. That's just about the most useless collection on the Internet. It contains and endorses every fable ever. Cool stuff if you're looking for fantasy. Not cool if you're looking for facts.

Probably not a good idea to cite an Asatru website. Asatru is a religion. Asatruars have a general reputation for solid scholarship but their religious beliefs sometimes color their use of the material.

You asked for source, so I've provided some of what I found regarding the van Friesland branch ..some of these ( NOTE ALL) is what I used to build the van Friesland branch back in 2014.

Many trees over the internet have used some of these too. But they are mistaking their reigning dates for their birth and death dates. that's why I am asking the experts for help.

So far I seem to be the only one here posting sources that you are saying are not good enough. People now are disconnecting profile to what I found to be fictitious and it's really hard to fix it now. I wish curator would have left things alone and DISCUSSED things before making changes.

Aldgisl he doesn't exsist. if anything he is Aldgisl

Thiadsvind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiadsvind
says she was the daughter of Radbod, King of the Frisians

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldgisl His successor and possibly son was Radbod, who followed the older pagan ways and was an enemy of Charles Martel. Radbod, King of the Frisians

Why not add him ad Redbad's, son?

More books with the kings of Friesland in it https://books.google.ca/books?id=FlMVAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA506&lpg=...

http://spangenhelm.com/redbad-last-pagan-king-frisia-northern-nethe...

Dorothy,

You've already had the answers to these questions. It should be obvious. Saying that Radbod was possibly the son of Aldgisl is not the same as saying he was. It's a theory. Nothing more.

What we want to achieve on Geni is to break these old theories and get down to real, verifiable information. It is not relevant how many other sites you can find that repeat the old fantasies. What matters is whether you can find documented information.

The links you are posting about Radbod's life are interesting, but largely irrelevant if the goal is to find his documented relatives. Of course, entirely relevant if you want to put the links in his About to give a picture of his life.

This duplicate of Radbod you are complaining about is one you yourself created 7 years after the main profile was created.

I will look at the duplicates for Aldgisl and do some clean up.

Fictional rulers ...

Kings
According to the Frisia seu de viris rebusque illustribus (and Merovingian chronicles).
Richardus, Uffo, 392-435 (? Finn Folcwalding)
Odilbaldus, 435-470 (? Sibbelt)
Richoldus, 470-533 (? Ritzard)
Beroaldus, 533-590 (? Audulf)
Adgillus I, 590-672 (Aldegisel, ?-680) >>>>> Justin you disconnected his profile as his son
Not mentioning all the Gods etc... that can be added after Richardus, Uffo, 392-435 (? Finn Folcwalding)

Those are the Ancestors Radbod I speaks of

this is from information within this profile Radbod, King of the Frisians

"""" But a son of Redbad was converted,""""" ......(I am assuming this profile as his son https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldgisl .... The profile was connected I cant find it now. )

...and Redbad too almost adopted the new religion. That would have been the completion of the christianization, according to the Church at the time an entire group of people was converted if the leader did

.""""" Either Wulfram or Willibrord was about to baptize the king, when Redbad asked: “Will I meet my ancestors in Heaven after I die?“

,"""""" Wulfram or Willibrord responded: “No, they were not baptized, so they are in Hell.”

""""Redbad replied: “Then I rather spend eternity in Hell with my ancestors than in Heaven with my enemies (the Franks).”''''''

From that moment on Redbad found new faith in his old pagan believes, and he also wanted the territories back he lost to the Franks.

All I am saying is I think the Friesen culture and of the ancients beliefs should be told and added to the tree as many other sites have done. Add to their profiles that it is fictitious but at least add them.

You just posted """"This duplicate of Radbod you are complaining about .... """""" I wasn't complaining at all . I was just pointing it out so it could be merged so I could continue on adding all the Fictional profiles to the tree as it was before I made some merges of other doubles. That'is why I started this Discussion to get help putting them in the right order and NOT have them disconnected like they are now.

I suppose you're going to tell me that the Merovingian chronicles are wrong too?

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