van Friesland branches

It would be great if someone could help me change an MP profile birth date

Radbod, King of the Frisians

Inside this profile has a write up from translated into English from this site http://sjeltur.nl/remembering-king-redbad

Now my question is, why have him listed as born "circa 670" when the write up clearly states he was born 648. It's in my opinion he is in the wrong place.
From what I can tell he should be Radboud III of Frisia ( van Friesland) born c 752 if Sindacilla was his daughter as shown on Geni.

Thiadsvind van Friesland
Thiadsvind

Father was Redbod I but not this profile. The Radboud I profile that I added was merged with this profile in question.

I am a bit lost as to what to do now.

I cant change it or move this King Redbold's profile to the correct age or move in on the branch where he should be so I can continue merging and fix all other doubles of all his correct ancestors.

I was hoping one of you experts could help. Sharon just the other day was working on this branch too and I noticed she got rid of Finn Folcwalding as his father Thank God for that. But she's merge this profile with ones that I was working on merging that I merged and manage the other week and now the tree is very mixed up.

I have not been working on this profile, except 2hrs ago to follow your instruction about this on the Duplicates Page: -Sindacilla van Friesland was disconnected from her parent Radboud III van Friesland by Sharon Doubell.2 hours ago

I've changed the birth date. Give me an hour or two to figure out the parent situation - I'm not familiar with this profile, as I only recently took over Curatorship to prevent it being uncurated.

I've disconnected this unsourced duplicate father you created: Aldgisl III van Friesland - checking the birth dates. Yours had 725 - so I haven't merged it in.

Your Data was:

Aldgisl III van Friesland
Son ofErika de Scanie
Father of(No Name) and Radboto - Radbod, King of the Frisians
Brother ofMelli van Friesland
Living No
Birth Date 725
Death Date
Forename Aldgisl III
Surname van Friesland
Gender Male
Birth Location Friesland, Netherlands
Death Location
ManagerDorothy Jane
Created on26/12/2015

It seems to me that this profile isn't the same as Aldgisl, and you may have positioned it in the wrong place.

Regarding your note in the Overview of the original profile: "It is in my opinion this should be Aldgisl III.. and not Aldgillis I" - I see no evidence of any previous Aldgisls at all - so I'm removing the number altogether

I can't find sources that link Aldgisl as the son of Beroaldus, King of Friesland (Fictitious).

I've disconnected his two unsourced wives - requesting sources; and requested sources on a number of his unsourced children.

I'm glad this area is receiving some attention but I'm not sure everyone will be happy to lose their fantasy lines from him.

Radbod was very famous locally. Old story. Lots of genealogical fiction accumulated around him because local families wanted to claim descent from him. If we are going to be serious about this line we will need to do some heavy clean up.

There is no evidence Radbod was son of his predecessor Aldgisl. There is no evidence he was father of his successor Poppo. He has one known child, a daughter Theudesind who married a son of Pepin le Gros. And, a later bishop of the same name was somehow his descendant.

There are no proven modern descents from him.

I'll put together some more information.

=If we are going to be serious about this line we will need to do some heavy clean up.=
Thanks Justin. Yes - there's no point in not being serious to my mind.

Start with Medlands.
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/HOLLAND.htm#_Toc359915620

It shows some contemporary references to him. No documented relationships except daughter Theodesindis and an unknown child who was ancestor of a bishop of Utrecht, also named Ratbod, who died in 917.

There is no estimated date of birth for him because it's impossible to guess how old he was 692/7 when he was defeated by Pepin.

He was succeeded by Poppo, no documented relationship. Poppo is father of Alfbad, but people like Nordolah and Gerolf are just disconnected names. Probably all the same family but impossible to reconstruct based on surviving sources.

If we want to look for information beyond Medlands, we can look at Wikipedia to get an idea of what else is known or asserted.

Dutch Wikipedia says "Over Radboud zijn jeugd en jonge jaren is niets bekend. Hoewel in latere kronieken wordt beweerd dat hij een zoon van Aldgisl was, bestaat hiervoor in het bronmateriaal uit die tijd geen bewijs. Hij groeide ongetwijfeld op in een familie die tot de Friese elite behoorde en kwam niet eerder aan de macht dan circa 680 , na de dood van Aldgisl .

(About Radbod, nothing is known about his childhood and early life. Although it is said in later records he was a son of Aldgisl no proof exists in contemporary records. He probably grew up in a family that belonged to the Frisian elite, and came to power no earlier than about 680, after the death of Aldgisl.)

Then, a bit later in the same article: "De naam van Radbouds echtgenote is niet overgeleverd, en het is onbekend hoeveel kinderen hij had. Hij had in ieder geval een dochter, Theudesinda die met een zoon van hofmeier Pepijn van Herstal trouwde, en er was ook sprake van een zoontje dat stierf als klein kind."

(The name of Radbod's wife is not given, and it is unknown how many children he had. He had at least one daughter Thiadsvind (Theudesinda) who married a son of the Mayor of the Palace Pepin of Herstal, and there was also a son who died as a child.)

Then: "Uit de primaire bronnen is niet bekend wie Radboud opvolgde. Door latere historici wordt de Friese legeraanvoerder Poppo soms wel als diens opvolger beschouwd."

(The primary sources do not say who succeeded Radbod. According to later historian the Frisian army commander Poppo is sometimes regarded as his successor.)

This is the best of the Wikipedia articles. It matches the information in Medlands.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radboud_(koning)

German Wikipedia says:

"Die Quellenlage über sein Leben und Wirken ist dürftig, so dass sich viele Aussagen über Radbod nicht schlüssig belegen lassen und in den Bereich der Legende fallen."

(The source material on his life and work is scanty, so many statements about his life and work cannot be substantiated conclusively and fall within the realm of legend.)

"711 verheiratete Radbod seine Tochter Theudesinda mit Pippins Sohn Grimoald dem Jüngeren , Sohn Pippins II. Im Jahre 714 wurde Grimoald ermordet."

(In 711 Radbod married his daughter Thiadsvind (Theudesina) to Pepin's son Grimoald the Younger, son of Pepin II. In the year 714 Grimoald was murdered.)

No other children are mentioned. No mention of his successor.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radbod_(Friesland)

French Wikipedia has as brief article. His predecessor is Aldgisl. He is succeeded by Poppo. No relationships asserted to either of them.

The only child mentioned is "Sa fille Theudesinde épouse en 711 le fils aîné de Pépin, Grimoald II."

(His daughter Theudesinde married in 711 Grimoald II, eldest son of Pepin.)

Then we get one new piece of information -- "La légende de Saint Fris fait de celui-ci un fils de Radbod, qui se serait enfui après sa conversion au catholicisme auprès de Charles Martel, fils naturel de Pépin."

(The legend of St. Fris makes him a son of Radbod who ran away to Charles Martel, natural son of Pepin, after his conversion to Catholocism .)

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radbod_Ier_de_Frise

English Wikipedia has the same information.

Radbod is a successor of Aldgisl and predecessor of Poppo, but no relationship is stated or discussed.

His daughter Thiadsvind married Grimold the Younger, eldest son of Pepin, in 711.

St. Radboud of Utrecht (died 917) claimed to be descended from him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redbad,_King_of_the_Frisians

We could go on in this vein, but this is enough to show what modern sources are saying. The Wikipedia articles are supported by good academic citations. And, of those articles, the Dutch article is the most comprehensive but also the clearest that no other relationships are known.

At this point, anyone who wants to suggest parents or other children for Radbod needs to bring a primary source to the discussion. Not a vanity website with someone's personal genealogy. Not a popular history. Instead, it will need to be a citation to an original document from this period.

Agreed.

http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsEurope/FranceHolland.htm
Here is a source to get the van Friesland line and history from ... and his ancestors

Sharon .. after all the merges I did.. may were merged with some of my original profiles I made in 2014... I was assuming since they were made MP status that they were correct. But I was wrong to assume so.
some
I can give you all what I researched over the years that I do have on my other tree on Ancestry.

I am also adding all the sources I've found over the years into the profiles of the van Friesland's profiles.

Nice chronology, but notice in the column on the right where the later generations identify the relationship to their predecessor, in the earlier generations it does not. Presumably because they are unknown.

I am trying to find many other sites I've found Justin .. please just give me a few minutes to get them all. There are many.

Dorothy, it is most likely that they were MPed before - and your duplicates were merged into them, not that your duplicates were made MPs.

Swartwout Chronicles http://www.swartwoutchronicles.com/chapter-01-pages-5-8-frisian-anc...

That site definitely doesn't provide family members for Redbad.

Crossposted. I was referring to the first link.
The second one doesn't appear to have primary Sources to prove its claims.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finn_(Frisian)

J. R. R. Tolkien studies the

https://dutchanglosaxonist.com/category/tolkien/

http://fabpedigree.com/s090/f881738.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf:_A_Translation_and_Commentary

this is a few of what I've found regarding the Ancestors I added that Sharon has disconnected from the van Friesland tree . I don't have a problem with that BTW...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Finnsburg

https://books.google.ca/books?id=sNTI0WTNmw4C&redir_esc=y&h...

Jane Chance, Professor of English, teaches medieval literature and J. R. R. Tolkien, at Rice University. Among her seventeen books are Tolkien's Art: A Mythology for England and The Lord of the Rings: The Mythology of Power and two guest-edited issues of Studies in Medievalism. She also edits two series, the Library of Medieval Women and the Greenwood Guide to Historic Events in the Medieval World.

Meili van Friesland born 735
mother to Bruno I of the Saxons, born cirka 726, ; )

Shall you now invent a first wife to his father too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Frisia

Ulf, Meili is a sideshow. No one has objected to her for 8 years. Within an hour of disconnecting her from her parents, you're already complaining that I haven't yet researched and sourced all the fictitious children.

Good Lord. This is why I hate working in the medieval tree.