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Uchtred mac Fergus, Lord of Galloway - Too many children & two wives called Gunhild - which is correct?

Started by Terry Jackson (Switzer) on Friday, September 16, 2016

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Terry Jackson (Switzer)

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Amy Anderson

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Anne Brannen

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Uchtred mac Fergus, Lord of Galloway

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Showing all 14 posts

Terry Jackson (Switzer) C

9/16/2016 at 8:42 AM

I was trying to clarify what the family of this profile were in the curator note but there is conflict that should be reolved:
There are two wives called Gunhild one is
Daughter of Waltheof of Allerdale and Sigrid, of Allerdale
the second is

Daughter of Walthe of Dunbar, 3rd Earl of Dunbar and Aline de Lothian

According to Medlands:

m GUNHILD, daughter of WALTHEOF & his wife Sigrid ---. The Cronicon Cumbriæ records that “Alanus filius et hæres eiusdem Waldevi” enfeoffed “Ugthredo filio Fergus domino Galwediæ” with property and “Guynolda sorore sua”[504]. Uhtred & his wife had two children:

i) ROLAND of Galloway (-1200). William of Newburgh names "fratri nefarie interempto filius Rollandus"[505]. Lord of Galloway. The Annals of Ulster record the death in 1200 of "Roland son of Uchtrach king of the Foreign-Irish”[506].

ii) --- of Galloway (-killed in battle 1185). The Chronicle of Melrose records that he fought with his brother Roland against "Gillecolm" but was killed in the battle together with their opponent[507]. The Chronicle of John of Fordun (Continuator - Annals) records the death of "Rotholand´s brother" in 1185 when "Ochtred´s son Rotholand" fought against "Gilpatrick and Henry Kennedy"[508].

This would suggest that we should detach Gunhild of Dunbar as wife
and all the children bar one Roland and one son name unknown.

Before taking these actions I'd like some agreement as others may have objections which they can support with sources.

Amy Anderson

9/16/2016 at 4:26 PM

Anne Brannan may be interested in taking a look at this. Please be sure there is a mistake before changing anything! Thanks...

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 10:47 PM

The extra wife has to go, certainly.

Since Medlands gives us Roland and the unnamed they are clear.

Medlands is not good on daughters, so the Eva who is listed in wikipedia might as well stay. I cant find her elsewhere and her source isnt clear from wikipedia, but might as well keep her.

My iPad is deleting messages if i leave the page without sending them at the moment so I will adress other kids in separate emails.

This is way too many children, though. I wonder where they came from.

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 10:48 PM

Miss Galloway is just silly. Lets merge her into Eve.

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 10:49 PM

Same thing with Daughter. Neither have other attachments so nothing is lost if we merge.

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 11:07 PM

I am finding no evidence but web trees for a Fergus MacUchtred. The historical sites would surely mention him, but I have nothing.

I find personal sites with no evidence that say he is the heir of Uchtred, but that isn't true.

I would cut him loose, myself, curated with a note at the top asking anyone with real evidence to contact the curator.

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 11:09 PM

He has a line from him, which is unsourced, but it can at least get cut at him, and perhaps further explored later.

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 11:18 PM

Dubhgall MacUchtred appears in MacDowell clan materials, unsourced.

Judgement call, then. No evidence that I found in this quick search, but the MacDowells are invested in him, and maybe he exiated.

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 11:20 PM

Bethoc of Moray obviously comes from the other side of Scotland. Cut.

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 11:31 PM

There was a Devorguilla at this time, and she was married to Lawrence Abernethy:

http://fmg.ac/phocadownload/userupload/scanned-sources/tgb/Vol17-PD...

But she isn't Devorguilla of Galloway, who lived a couple hundred years later and was married to John Balliol.

This one needs to be detached from Uchtred. Her last name is unknown.

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 11:33 PM

The two Rolands need to get merged.

Now I will go to bed.

Anne Brannen C

9/16/2016 at 11:39 PM

Oh, look, there is yet another Devorguilla, given as the daughter of Roland. She needs to be detached and merged with our other one.

When I get up in the morning I will help out with all this stuff i recommended.

This was fun.

Private User

9/20/2016 at 10:20 AM

How many times do I have to hit unfollow to get rid of this and other discussions. Why can't you program a button to hit to eliminate all discussions at once. I have discussions up the ying yong, that I don't want and to do it one by one would take hours. I only want to keep certain ones.. There are so many that I am no longer interested in.

Terry Jackson (Switzer) C

9/20/2016 at 5:35 PM

Judith, you should be able to only follow discussions you follow - in the drop down menu, top right corner, when you join the discussion page make sure it's on 'discussions I follow' and NOT 'public discussions'.

Showing all 14 posts

Uchtred mac Fergus, Lord of Galloway - Too many children & two wives called Gunhild - which is correct?

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