Anne Hastings, Countess of Derby - Cleanup Family

Started by Erica Howton on Monday, August 29, 2016
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8/29/2016 at 10:56 AM

Anne Hastings, Countess of Derby had acquired two extra husbands and a number of fictional children. I've undone merges and am now re housing the kids.

http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/online/content/derby1485.htm#DERB... shows this family:

Thomas [Stanley], 2nd Earl of Derby born bef. 1485 mar. bef. 1503 his second cousin Hon Anne Hastings (bur. 17 Nov 1550), sister of George [Hastings], 1st Earl of Huntingdon, and only dau. of Edward [Hastings], 2nd Baron Hastings of Hastings, by his wife Mary Hungerford, suo jure de jure Baroness Hungerford, Botreaux and de Moleyns, only dau. and hrss. of Sir Thomas Hungerford, de jure 4th Baron Hungerford

children
1. Hon John Stanley (d. young)
2. Hon Edward Stanley, later 3rd Earl of Derby
1. Lady Margaret Stanley (dspm. aft. Jan 1533/4), mar. 11 May/1 Sep 1532 as his second wife Robert [Ratcliffe], 1st Earl of Sussex, and had issue

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After the children are sorted, I'll work on her too many siblings.

First issue:

Peter Stanley, of Ashford disconnected

I think there might be "spurious pedigrees" out there in internet - land causing the problem. This one, for instance:

http://www.packrat-pro.com/stevens/st.htm#Thomas%20Stanley1515

Thomas Stanley 12G grandfather
b abt 1515 Ashford, Kent England
d 25 Apr 1583 Ashford, Kent England
Parents: Thomas Stanley m Anne Hastings (?)
Spouse: unknown
Child: Peter Stanley m Joane Masterson (63)

63.  63 Ancestry.com trees - more research is required

8/29/2016 at 11:39 AM

Disconnected Jane Osbaldeston as daughter of Anne Hastings

She belongs as:

"Sir Thomas Halsall of Halsall Knt., whose wife was Jane, daughter and coheiress of Sir John Stanley of Honford Knt. (base son and heir of John Stanley, brother of Thomas first Earl of Derby) and of Elizabeth his wife, daughter and coheiress of Sir John Harrington of Hornby Castle Knt. and of his wife, the daughter and heiress of Sir Robert Nevile of Hornby

8/29/2016 at 2:30 PM

Disconnected Lady Anne Patridge from not her parents after undo merge from Anne (Hastings) Stanley. If anyone knows who she was, speak up.

Is this a match?

https://www.geni.com/search/matches?id=6000000010925599025&src=...

8/29/2016 at 2:37 PM

There are notes here that suggest in fact the 2nd Earl of Derby had numerous children, and some by an unknown woman.

From http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00049293&tre...

Before 1503 Thomas married Anne Hastings, daughter of Edward Hastings, Lord Hungerford and Hastings, and Mary Hungerford, Baroness Hungerford, Baroness Moleyns. They became the parents of three sons and one daughter.

Children 
  1. John Stanley,   d. 1503
+ 2. Edward Stanley, 3rd Earl of Derby ,   b. 10 May 1509,   d. 24 Oct 1572, Lathom House  (Age 63 years)
+ 3. Lady Margaret Stanley,   b. Abt 1512,   d. Jan 1534  (Age ~ 22 years)
  4. Henry Stanley

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http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00640561&tre...

Remarks: 13 children
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00640563&tre...

1. Jane Stanley married Thomas Scarisbrick, of Scarisbrick

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Sources 
[S00119] The Lineage and Ancestry of H.R.H. Prince Charles, Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977, Paget, Gerald.
P 57679

[S00120] Cahiers de Saint Louis , Dupont, Jacques and Saillot, Jacques.
100, 933

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Therefore I suppose we need to set up an "unknown mistress" profile and move over some of the kids to her.

8/29/2016 at 3:23 PM

This is cool!

The "Countess of Derby's Entertainers"

https://reed.library.utoronto.ca/node/316301

https://reed.library.utoronto.ca/content/countess-derbys-entertainers

Also, she "did" have a first husband apparently

https://books.google.com/books?id=EoodLseNjhsC&lpg=PA343&ot...

At the King's Pleasure By Kate Emerson page 343

Married as a child to John Radcliffe, Lord Fitzwalter

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Can anyone find him?

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8/29/2016 at 3:35 PM

Linda Wellman this is where all the extra children come from:

http://www.kateemersonhistoricals.com/TudorWomenH-He.htm

A Who’s Who of Tudor Women: H-He compiled by Kathy Lynn Emerson

ANNE HASTINGS (c.1485-November 17, 1550)

Anne Hastings was the daughter of Edward, 2nd baron Hastings (November 25, 1466-November 8, 1506) and Mary Hungerford (c.1468-July 10, 1533). Anne was married to John Radcliffe, Lord Fitzwalter (1442-1496) as a child. In 1507, she married Thomas Stanley, 2nd earl of Derby (1485-May 23, 1521) and was the mother of Edward, 3rd earl (May 10,1508-October 24,1572), John, Anne, Margaret (d. January 1534), Henry (d. June 29, 1528), James, George, Thomas (c.1515-1538), and Jane. Anne was at the court of Catherine of Aragon as the youngest of her ladies in waiting in 1509 and at the Field of Cloth of Gold in 1520. In 1542, when her son-in-law, Robert, earl of Sussex, died he gave Anne custody of his daughter, Jane (her mother was Anne's late daughter Margaret) as well as the wardship of young Lord Berkeley, intended as the girl's husband. In 1545, Anne sold Berkeley's wardship to his mother for £1000. In her will, Anne left Jane clothing, furnishings, and the profits of that sale.

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Now I'm not sure what to do.

8/29/2016 at 4:34 PM

http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0pg50988.pdf has discussion of the Stanley family, including charts. But no ref to the extra children.

I'm inclined to leaving them with Anne. It is the Jane Stanley who is problematic, no other's seem to claim families of their own.

8/30/2016 at 12:56 PM

John Radcliffe, Lord FitzWalter (1452?-1496) married, before 12 Mar 1476, Anne Whethall, sister of Richard, of Calais. Paston Letters iii, 160.

It is thought he m. 2) Anne, dau. of Edward, Lord Hastings, who in 1507 m. Thomas Stanley, 2nd Earl of Derby, & died 1550. But this supposition is not free from difficulties, & a Margaret, Lady FitzWalter, mentioned in 1518 is sometimes taken to be his widow. By his 1st wife, he had 5 daughters & a son.

Above from Wikisource, which cites Cokayne's, Dugdale's, Bentley's Excerpta Historica, Rotuli Parlimentorum, vi 504, Busch's England Under the Tudors.

Geni says that Margaret is the mother of 3 Radcliffe children. Geni, also, states that Anne had 2 husbands & a total of 7 kids: 4 Radcliffe daughters & 3 Walden....this would be Anne Whethall. Sorry to lay another puzzle on you!

Wikisource is the only mention of Anne Hastings as a possible 2nd wife for John Radcliffe. Everyone else went with Anne Whethall/Whitehall & Margaret LNU.

8/30/2016 at 1:07 PM

Jane Osbaldeston is my 12th GGM
Anne Hastings is my 13th GGM
John Radcliffe & Margaret LNU are my 14th GGPs

Considering the dates involved & that John was executed at age 41, I don't see that Anne Hastings was married to John Radcliffe & think she has been confused with Anne Whethall.

8/30/2016 at 2:55 PM

I wonder if the John Radcliffe thing was a child betrothal, contract not carried through.

Can you point to the improbable Anne Whethall? I'm almost done wading thru Stanley stuff.

8/30/2016 at 2:56 PM

PS I just moved Jane (Stanley) Haskall Osbaldson to (hopefully) her correct spot, she wasn't in this branch of the Stanley's, she was from (even grander) Neville's & Harington's.

8/30/2016 at 2:59 PM

PPS we also need to make a new profile for this Jane

Jane Stanley (daugther of Anne Hastings) married Thomas Scarisbrick, of Scarisbrick

And find the Scarisbrick family.

I guess I'm not finished yet ....

Private User
8/30/2016 at 6:37 PM

Thanks Erica for all your hard work cleanup family their are two many managers 55??????

8/30/2016 at 8:32 PM

Anne Whetehill Radcliffe Anne Radcliffe. Sorry I can't link!

I don't think Anne Whetehill is improbable - I think she is most likely the 1st wife of John Radcliffe & that Anne Hastings is the improbable. For one thing, she didn't die until 1475, so she outlived John by a good bit. So, this creates problems with Margaret being a 2nd wife. Also, the only source I found that even mentions Anne Hastings as a potential spouse for John Radcliffe is Wikisource; and they even regard the relationship as problematic.

8/30/2016 at 8:54 PM

Www.scarisbrickhall.org states that Gilbert de Scaresbrec is earliest member of family. His son, Walter, was his heir. The family married into Barlows, Heskells, Bradhaighs & Halsalls. They were from West Lancashire & were called the "richest commoners" in England.

Sir Henry Scarisbrick (d. 1421) fought at Agincourt.

Geni says they are descended from the Lathom family. Gilbert Lathom de Scarisbrick. (GGF in 2 lines)

8/31/2016 at 1:23 PM

Thomas Stanley, of Ashford disconnected

Not sure who he was meant to be.

8/31/2016 at 1:24 PM

Ah, this is the bogus pedigree. He's the father of Peter Stanley, of Ashford. Merged & I'm giving Thomas "unknown parents"

8/31/2016 at 1:39 PM

Re: marriage to John Radcliffe, 9th Baron Fitzwalter

Paston Letters are a great source, and if they have the two wives on geni for him, I'd say, let the idea of an Anne Hastings marriage stand as a comment and not a family tree link.

If anyone objects or has other solutions, please advise.

8/31/2016 at 1:58 PM

I'm not sold that Anne Hasting's "daughter Jane" as asserted by Kate Emerson & Genealogics is this person

I see a James Scarisbrick who died young -- Linda Kathleen Thompson, (c) do you have more info?

I see his brother Thomas Scarisbrick, of Scarisbrick married to an Elizabeth Scarisbrick of Knowsley in Lancashire, which is a different Stanley line.

Need to do more research.

8/31/2016 at 3:36 PM

That is all I have found on James Scarisbrick, Erica Howton

8/31/2016 at 3:39 PM

I added a little from that link at findagrave. Hope it helped and didn't mess things up worse.....

8/31/2016 at 6:42 PM

If you feel that Elizabeth Stanley doesn't belong where findagrave attaches her, feel free to detatch.

Here's more on the Scarisbrick family. http://scarisbrickfamily.homestead.com/Tree1.html

8/31/2016 at 7:46 PM

Thanks Linda, that's a help.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=117060067 is a "virtual" burial with no info but the links. She has Edward, 3rd Earl & Margaret (Stanley) Radcliffe, known children of Anne Hastings, as siblings, but no parent linkage, making me think it was partially de linked.

8/31/2016 at 7:52 PM

Huh. Maybe this is possible

From http://scarisbrickfamily.homestead.com/Tree1.html

Elizabeth Stanley (b. ~1502), wife of Thomas Scarisbrick (1496 - 1530), is described as "natural daughter of Thomas, Earl of Derby". The date of birth of Elizabeth implies this Thomas is Thomas Stanley, the 2nd Earl of Derby.

8/31/2016 at 8:06 PM

If Elizabeth Stanley was born 1502, and was a daughter of the 2nd Earl, she was not the daughter of Anne Hastings, who married him in 1507.

I'm making a N.N. mother profile.

8/31/2016 at 9:07 PM

Jane (unknown?) Scarisbrick was the 2nd wife of Thomas, so that's where the name comes from. James died as a child as in the geni profile" Thomas his heir.

===notes===

From 'Townships: Scarisbrick', in A History of the County of Lancaster: Volume 3, ed. William Farrer and J Brownbill (London, 1907), pp. 265-276. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol3/pp265-276 [accessed 31 August 2016].

>James Scarisbrick was aged about ten years at his father's death. Some years later the king claimed his wardship, on the ground that certain of his lands were held directly of the crown; on inquiry this was found to be a mistake. Scarisbrick and Harleton were held of the earl of Derby as successor to the Lathom family, (fn. 49) Eggergarth of Butler of Warrington (the king then having the wardship of the heir), Snape of Sir Henry Halsall, and other lands of the prior of Burscough and the lords of Aughton, Griffith, and Starkie. (fn. 50) Before this was settled James died, (fn. 51) leaving his younger brother Thomas, then six years of age, to succeed. His wardship was granted by the king to William Smith, escheator of the county, (fn. 52) who sold it to the earl of Derby. The latter availed himself of the opportunity to marry his natural daughter Elizabeth to his ward. (fn. 53)

>In 1529 a disputed boundary in the moss land between Scarisbrick and Halsall was decided by setting 'meres, limits and stakes' by twelve men (six from each side) in the presence of numerous witnesses. (fn. 54) In the same year new feoffees of the estates were appointed on the arrangement of a marriage between Frances (or Dorothy) Booth and James the son and heir of Thomas Scarisbrick. James was then about six years of age, and he chose Dorothy, aged four. (fn. 55) Thomas Scarisbrick did not long survive, his will being dated 4 October, 1530. (fn. 56)

*49. The holder paid 30s. yearly, and rendered 2s. to a scutage of 40s.
*50. Pal. of Lanc. Plea R. 109, m. 11 and 131, m. 4.
*51. On 25 July, 1508; Duchy of Lanc. Inq. p.m. ii, n. 1 (imperfect); and iii, n. 10.
*52. Dep. Keeper's Rep. xxxix, App. 559.
*53. Duchy of Lanc. Plea. (Hen. VIII), iii, B. 3.
*54. Scarisbrick D. n. 182. There was another arbitration in 1530 on the disputes between Thomas Scarisbrick and Humphrey Hurleton; ibid. nn. 184, 186–7.
*55. Scarisbrick D. n. 183; Visit. of 1533 (Chet. Soc.), 78.
*56. In this he mentions the marriage of James and Dorothy, his (second) wife Jane, his son Gilbert, and his daughters Margaret, Maud, and Anne; his uncle James Scarisbrick was to be one of the overseers; Piccope's Wills (Chet. Soc.), i, 183, &c. He desired to be buried in Ormskirk church before the altar of St. Nicholas, and left his 'best quick cattle' to the curate as a mortuary. A priest was to say mass, at the altar named, for seven years for the souls of the testator and his parents, receiving 6 marks a year. The prior of Birkenhead was to take charge of the moneys set aside from time to time for his daughters' portions. His son Gilbert was to be kept at school, and the issues of his lands not to be wasted but employed for his use till he should reach twenty years of age. The chapel at Scarisbrick Hall has been mentioned; the following 'heirlooms' show that it was fairly well furnished: two vestments, two chasubles, two albs, a chalice, two mass books, twelve images closed in box cases and two not closed; with various altar linen. The other apartments mentioned are the kitchen and brewhouse, the buttery, chamber, larder-house, and hall. Examples are extant of alabaster images set in wooden cases.

8/31/2016 at 9:08 PM

If anyone wants to fill in more of the Scarisbrick tree, please do. I'm going to set up the 2nd wife Jane profile.

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