Yom Tov Lippman Heller - תוספות יו"ט - Tosfot Yom Tov daughter named Channah?

Started by Raanan Abraham Agus on Sunday, August 21, 2016
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@Gershon Shaul Yom Tov Lipman Heller

It is common knowledge among our family members that we are direct descendants of Tosfot Yom Tov. Not that any of this is formal proof, but on the tombstones of some ancestors many generations back it says so, our family has been observing the Rosh Chodesh Adar celebrations, my father's Hebrew name was "Shaul Gershon" (and on TYT's grave he is called "Gershon Shaul") etc.
When I first started using geni.com, the website confirmed this, through a daughter named Channah who was married to Hagaon Yoel Sirkis Yaffe, a descendant of Yoel ben Samuel Yaffe-Sirkes ("HaBach".)
For some reason, when I went to check this past week, the link from Chana to TYT is no longer there, so geni.com says that I am not longer a direct descendant; rather am a first cousin 14 times removed.
To further complicate this, the current version of geni.com does have a TYT daughter named Esther, with question marks, also married to someone name Gaon Rabbi Joel Gad Sirkis, with the Gad being a different name than the previously referenced HaGaon Yoel SIrkis. And this Rabbi Joel Gad Sirkis seems to have different parental names. BUT, they were both born in the same year (1640).
Further, the book "The Feast and the Fast" by R. Lipschitz and Dr. Rosenstein have a bunch of charts at the back of their book (through which we can trace our direct ancestry through the un-named daughter in Chart 2, and there is no daughter named Esther).
I am inclined to believe that Esther and Channah are one and the same person, and her husband was R. Yoel Sirkis, but I cannot explain the Gad angle to this.
Does anyone know anything about this or can anyone explain this?
Does anyone know who/why/when made changes to the genealogy for TYT to remove the daughter named Channa as one of his daughters?
Thanks very much in advance - would appreciate any ideas here.

-- Raanan Agus

Hi Raanan Abraham

I have read your query and as a descendant from the TYT myself I did a quick check through the info I have accumulated that far.
I must stress that this is in no way an authoritative opinion, just a very quick suggestion.

At the back of some editions of Megilat Eiva (a pamphlet which the TYT himself wrote about the tribulations he went through) there is an addition called Toldot YomTov which was written by one of his (great)-grandchildren. (can be downloaded from http://www.hebrewbooks.org/3840) It contains a vast amount of bibliographic information which seemingly has been thoroughly researched (there are lots of sources in the footnotes).
There (pg 42) is a list of all the TYT's children with their names. At the end of that list there is mention of "an additional daughter which was married to Rabbi Yoel of the city of Brisk who was the great-grandchild of the Bach. He was the father of Rabbi Shlomo Zalmen the father in law of Yechezkiel Katzenelebogen author of Kneset Yisrael" (free translation of the Hebrew)

Based on the above I suppose that it isn't clear what the name of this daughter was. I assume that the source to the name is from other trees which are based on the descendants of the Bach. If we assume that the above mentioned Yoel (son in law to the TYT) was married a second time after his first wife's passing, that would explain the ambivalence as to the name of the TYT's daughter and the details which overlap.

BTW if you read through the entire Megilas Eivo (written by the TYT himself) as well as part two of the above (written by the TYT eldest son) you can accumulate lots of little tidbits throughout.

Hope this was of any help to you.

Mayer

Dear Raanan Abraham,
At the profile of Chana Yafe NN is the following revisions:

wife, Joel Gad Sirkis, [d.#2 Tosfot Yom Tov]

Chana Yaffe's profile was updated by Jeff Meyerson (c). birth surname
Thu at 7:03 AM · view
Geni Pro badge
Chana Yaffe was disconnected from her parents Yom Tov Lippman Heller - תוספות יו"ט and Rachel Heller (Ashkenazi) and siblings Raizel Segal Kahana, [d.#1 Tosfot Yom Tov], Ester? Mrs. Rabbi Joel Gad, [d.#2 Tosfot Yom Tov], Gittel Dovrish Bash, [d.#3 Tosfot Yom Tov] and Nachele (Nechama) Frankel-Mirels, [d.#4 Tosfot Yom Tov] by Yigal Burstein.
Jul 15 at 10:07 AM,

and many more in the past, if this above doesn´t give you the answer.
Here are also some revisions (chasnge for Gaon....)
Gaon Rabbi Joel Yossef Gad Sirkis, [of Brisk]
It starts to be too complicated for me.

Now I found out that I am your 15th cousin. Hello.
My predecessor is Yom tov Lippman Heller, even though
22nd cousin 13 times removed.

Eva Feiglova, Prague, Czech Republic chava@seznam.cz

Thank you very much Meir and Eva. Very helpful. And nice to meet new relatives!

I am a descendant through Nissel Flekeles Horowitz (d.#5 Tosfot Yom Tov). I'm so pleased there are people knowledge and wanting to ensure this line is correct and well sourced with whatever evidence there is.

Nice to meet other descendants.

knowledge = knowledgable :)

Yigal Burstein is the curator for many of the family members of TYT. He might want to take a look at the family again and revisit recent changes.

I am the 11th cousin of Mayer and 14th of Raanan :)

Hello, all the far long ago relatives,
In The English book of Joseph M. Davis: Yom Tov Lipmann Heller: Portrait of a Seveteenth-Century Rabbi (1578 in Wallerstein - 1654), there are many names of his and also of his father in law, also in notes under the line. In the Czech edition there is also the Czech translation of Megilat Ejva (there are mentioned his children).
In the book there are named also some of his relatives.
I did not find in the book, if the notes are only in zech translation - they are abundant and very helpful.

From the book:
- His grand-father, who educated him: Rabi Moshe Fränklin (Moshe Wallerstein).
- His father Nathan Heller died when YTLH was 18 years old.
- YTLH married 1593 or 1594 Rachel, daughter of Moshe Aron Munk (from the famous family of Horowitz), called also Aron Ashkenazi.
- YTLH was called also Moshe Aron Teomim. Be careful! Do not mix him with the relative of the same name (is written under the line).
- Of course he could be called by the name of his famous work: Tosfot Yom Tov.
- In the documents of 1598 YTLH was named as Lipmann Munk (his father in law) - it was normal at that time to name people by the name of the family with which they lived. Round the year 1600 YTLH was considered to be one of the famous Prague familiy of Horowitz.

Here I rather stop looking for other names of his. :-)
Eva Feiglova, Prague, Czech Republic

Thanks, everyone, the tree has been fixed now, and comports with my understanding and evidence. Great to meet long lost cousins through this chain! Has anyone been following the Katzenellenbogen Y-DNA project?

Interesting article here on it:

http://www.avotaynuonline.com/2016/03/y-dna-genetic-signature-ethni...

I read the article by I think Jeffrey Pauli. Very interesting. I am interested in the Sephardic aspect.

Also there's a wonderful article on the gravestones in the cemetery where the Maharam is buried. I don't remember where I found it, but it is public. I can look if you are interested. It has photographs. I intend to ask permission to view the cemetery if I go back to the Venetto region of Italy.

Hi, Heller´s

Do you know that Tossfot Iom Tov was Toldot Iaakov-Iosef (Iaakov Iosef of Polonoie) great-grandfather? Toldot Iaakov Iosef was, together with the Maguid, most closed to the BESHT and published his stories in that book (Toldot...)

Reizel, Tossfot Iom Tov daughter was married with Rav Iaakov Iosef Katz (Kohen veTzadik), rosh parnas ieshivah Brisk and grandfather of Toldot....

From the same lineage of Reizel was Iehuda Leib Heller HaCohen, brother to Arieh Leib Heller HaCohen, both baalei Kuntraz Hasfikot and Ketzot Hachoshen.

Tossfot Iom Tov was, also, descendent from Itzhak HaLevy, brother to Aaron Halevy, from Barcelona, author of Sefer HaChinuch.

We all must be pride form our roots.

Hi my name is ranan and i saw your name on my famiy tree

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