Jeffrey Ferris, of Greenwich - The Ancestors and Origins of Jeffrey Ferris (c.1610-1666)

Ulverscroft Priory

As noted above Ulverscroft Priory was closed during the Dissolution of the Monasteries c. 1540. Like St Editha in Tamworth, Ulverscroft Priory is on the National Heritage List for England (NHLE): https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1295073

An English firm called Anderson and Glenn was commissioned by the NHLE to study the restoration of Ulverscroft and a 2015 aerial photo of Ulverscroft shows scaffolding in place for repairs. A current Google Earth view on the Charnwood Borough (where Ulverscroft is located) web site appears to show the scaffolding still in place. An NHLE survey map combined with the photos suggest a relatively small area where the remains of the 2nd, 3rd and 5th Barons Ferrers might be located.

Anderson & Glenn: https://www.andersonandglenn.com/index.php?page=chronology

Aerial photo with scaffolding: https://www.mediastorehouse.com/historic-england/heritage/abbeys-pr...

Google Earth: https://www.charnwood.gov.uk/listed_buildings/ulverscroft_priory_ru...

NHLE Survey Map: https://mapservices.historicengland.org.uk/printwebservicehle/Statu...

After the priory was dissolved, it was granted to Thomas Manners, the 1st Earl of Rutland. The priory may have remained in tact for a lengthy period thereafter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulverscroft_Priory

Where the remains of the Barons Ferrers of Groby might be is an open question, but Anderson and Glenn's study may have identified possible sites. And, the restoration itself may have revealed some clues. If restoration continues to this day, perhaps now is a propitious time to contact the NHLE.

I uploaded a new version of the "Origins of Jeffrey Ferris" memo to the Sources tab. It adds (on page 21) Blunsdon St Andrew, Wiltshire and Fiddington Manor, Ashchurch, Gloucestershire to the section describing the "Ferrers Castles, Estates and Migrations."

I have uploaded another new version of the "Origins of Jeffrey Ferris" memo to the Sources tab. It adds (on page 21) Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire to the section describing the "Ferrers Castles, Estates and Migrations." The addition reads as follows:

"Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire. It appears that after Edmund/Edward Ferris lost Blunsdon St Andrew by attainder in 1503 the Ferris family moved to other areas in Wiltshire and Gloucestershire. Seven great grandchildren of Sheriff John Ferris and Margaret Hungerford were born in Ashton Keynes between about 1535 and 1547 and more descendants were added in subsequent generations. Ashton Keynes had been acquired by the Hungerford family of nearby Down Ampney after the Dissolution of the Monasteries between 1534 and 1539. John Hungerford leased Ashton Keynes to Anthony Ferris in 1576 for 60 years."

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The rector at All Cannings (near Manningford Bruce) from 1593 to 1625 was Hugh Gough. Hugh was a clerk at Magdalen College, Oxford (1560), received his B.A. in 1568 and his M.A. in 1574. (Hugh had been a Vicar at Bishops Cannings before becoming Rector at All Cannings in 1593.)

Hugh's father, John Gough (d.1562), was buried at St. Sampson's Church in Cricklade, Wiltshire. Cricklade is only several miles from Blunsdon St Andrew (think Sheriff John Ferris), Down Ampney (think Margaret Hungerford) and Ashton Keynes (home to numerous Ferris descendants in the late 16th century). Ashton Keynes was part of the Cricklade Hundred. But John Gough is also said to have been "of Tony Stratford" which is south of Salisbury in southern Wiltshire.

It appears that rector Hugh Gough of All Cannings may have had some connections to Cricklade and, therefore, may have known of the Ferris families of Ashton Keynes.

Visitation of England and Wales Notes, 1919, Vol. 13 (1919), p. 27. https://books.google.com/books?id=m-zx7FWMnRQC&pg=PA27&lpg=...

The Wiltshire Archaeological and Natural History Magazine, Vol. XI (1869), p. 24. https://books.google.com/books?https://books.google.com/books?id=un...

Ashton Keynes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashton_Keynes
Hundred: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_(county_division)

Manningford Bruce and Puritans

Erica Howton, in your note on July 27, 2018 above with respect to the Ferrises/Harrises of Manningford Bruce and All Cannings, you suggested that a “smoking gun” might be their association with Puritans. Guess what?

Thomas Bayly/Baylie (1582-1663) is described as a “puritan divine” in the DNB and was the Rector of Manningford Bruce when Jeffere Farris and Dorathy Sheapherd were married there on 30 July 1632. Quotes from the DNB and Alumni Oxonienses describing Thomas Bayly appear further below.

In addition, you will recall that the Manningford Bruce OPC mentioned that a Rector in nearby Woodborough, appointed in 1657, was educated at Harvard. The CCED listing of appointments for Woodborough skips from 1613 to 1660, but it does show that a Francis Bayly (d.1667) was appointed Rector of Woodborough in 1660. His listing from the Alumni Oxonienses is also shown below. This Francis Bayly may have been a son of Thomas Bayly of Manningford Bruce, but I could not find any evidence supporting the proposition.

Could Jeffere Farris and Dorathy Sheapherd have migrated to New England about the same time as the Rector of Woodborough?

In addition, a Walter Bayley (1529-1592) was a physician to Queen Elizabeth I c. 1581. Of course you will recall that a Richard Ferris was a physician to King Henry VIII in the mid 1500's.

And, there is more. A W. Shephard, or Shepperd was the Vicar of Urchfont in 1645 and he “was not loyal to the King;” Urchfont is about 6 miles west of Manningford Bruce. I have not found evidence that this W. Shephard/Shepperd is related to Dorathy Sheapherd but I am suspicious.

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“BAYLIE. THOMAS (1582-1663), puritan divine; M.A., and fellow, Magdalen College, Oxford, 1611; B.D., 1621; rector successively of Manningford Bruce and Mildenhall, Wiltshire; ejected, 1660; set up conventicle at Marlborough.”
Dictionary of National Biography (1903), p. 75
https://archive.org/details/dictionaryofnati00leesuoft/page/74

“Bayly, Thomas, pleb. St. ALBAN HALL, matric. 31 Oct., 1604, aged 18; demy MAGDALEN COLL. 1602-10, B.A. 12 Dec., 1604, M.A. 8 July, 1607, fellow 1610-15. B.D. 11 May, 1621, licenced to preach 18 May, 1621, rector of Manningford Bruce, Wilts, 1621, one of the assembly of divines at Westminster, rector of Beckenham, Kent, in 1647, and of Mildenhall, Wilts, from where he was ejected, 1660, father of William 1636, buried at Marlborough 27 March, 1663. See Foster's Index Ecclesiasticus; Calamy, iii. 367; D.N.B.; Bloxam, v. 5; Ath, iii. 633; & Add. M.S., 15,671.”
Alumni Oxonienses, 1500-1714 (1891), p. 92
https://books.google.com/books?id=c9E9AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA92&lpg=...

“Bayly, Francis, s. Edward, of Devizes, Wilts, pleb. St. MARY HALL, matric. 12 March, 1637-8, aged 16; B.A. 10 May, 1641, rector of Woodborough, Wilts, 1660. canon of Salisbury 1663. See Le Neve. ii. 658; & Foster's Index Ecclesiasticus.”
Alumni Oxonienses, 1500-1714 (1891), p. 90
https://books.google.com/books?id=c9E9AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA92&lpg=...

“BAYLEY, WALTER (1529-1592), physician; educated at Winchester; fellow of New College, Oxford, 1550; M.D., 1563 ; canon of Wells; regius professor of physic, Oxford, 1561; physician to Elizabeth; F.C.P., 1581; published treatise on preservation of the eyesight. [iii. 445]”
Dictionary of National Biography (1903), p. 74
https://archive.org/details/dictionaryofnati00leesuoft/page/74

CCED re Woodborough: http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/locations/index.jsp

“W. Shephard, or Shepperd, Vicar of Urchfont in 1645, was not loyal to the King; or at least he is passed over in silence by Walker.”
The Wiltshire Archaeological and Natural History Magazine, Vol XXXIV, 1905-1906, p. 159
https://books.google.com/books?id=68MxAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA159&lpg...

Harvard Graduates

I searched, but was unable to find the names of the earliest Harvard Graduates. Buy I did find a Harvard Gazette article, “Commencements, from 1642 onward,” that mentions Harvard graduates returning to England:

“The date most associated with Harvard is 1636. It was on Oct. 28 of that year that the Massachusetts Bay Colony created the first institution of higher learning in the English New World...

Or why not call 1642 Harvard’s primal year? It was then, in September, that the College held its first Commencement, graduating nine seniors. At least three soon crossed the Atlantic the other way, one to serve as a diplomat for the rebellious Oliver Cromwell and another to study medicine in Italy...

Reverse migration was a concern; educated young men still felt the tug of Mother Europe. Of Harvard’s first 20 graduates, 12 moved to Europe, and only one returned.”

“Commencements, from 1642 onward” https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/05/commencement-from-16...

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More Evidence of Dissent in the Vale of Pewsey

Hungerford is a town (and a Hundred) about 14 miles east of Manningford Bruce. The following is from the town's history:

“John Clarke (Presbyterian put in by Cromwellian party) (1641-1642):

… John Clarke (or Clerke), vicar from 1640/1 to 1662. This was a particularly difficult period, which spanned both the Civil War and the subsequent Commonwealth. Strong and often bitter opinions divided parishioners; their loyalties were pulled this way and that. Clarke belonged to the Puritan side of the religious divide, and events probably hardened him in his views, particularly after his ejection under the Act of uniformity in 1662...

It has been written that Clarke was a Presbyterian, but when he became one is not clear. This was a period when membership of dissenting denominations was very fluid, and denominational boundaries not always clear.”

http://www.hungerfordvirtualmuseum.co.uk/index.php/14-people/625-vi...

All Cannings to Manningford Bruce

In 1625 Robert Byng replaced Hugh Gough as the Rector at All Cannings. British History Online (BHO) described Byng as a Royalist. Having a Royalist as the new Rector in All Cannings may have motivated some of the parishioners to move elsewhere, such as Manningford Bruce, to find a more favorable religious environment. This reminds me of Reverend Richard Denton (1601-c.1662) who was motivated to migrate to America in 1638 after the appointment of Richard Marsh as the new Vicar of Halifax by Laud.

Byng was later a Rector at Devizes and is described by BHO in an article about Puritanism in Devizes as follows:

"The progress of the Reformation in St. Mary's suggests that the parish conformed to official
tendencies. When the next century is entered such an impression is confirmed, for in 1637–8 the Communion table was railed in. (fn. 124) The use of lecturers and preachers (fn. 125) might indeed suggest a degree of Puritanism on the part of the corporation, patrons at this time, (fn. 126) and certainly one preacher became a noted Parliamentarian. (fn. 127) On the other hand, they may sometimes simply have stopped gaps during vacancies. Byng, at all events, rector c. 1646, was not a Puritan, for he joined the king's forces and his lands were sequestered. (fn. 128)" Robert Byng had been appointed Rector at All Cannings in 1625.

BHO: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/wilts/vol10/pp285-314
CCED: http://db.theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/persons/CreatePersonFrames.j...

Woodborough Rector Educated at Harvard

In my note above on 1/24/2019, I noted that the Manningford Bruce Rector in 1632-1633, Thomas Bayly was a Puritan. I also mentioned that the Mannigford Bruce OPC mentioned a Rector at nearby Woodborough who had been educated at Harvard.

It appears that Rector was Isaac Chauncey. The BHO article below states that he was appointed Rector at Woodborough in 1656, was ejected in 1662 and then emigrated to America. A Wikipedia article about Chauncey says he was baptised in Hertfordshire (near St Albans) in 1632. His father was Charles Chauncy, a Puritan who was a lecturer in Greek at Cambridge. Charles migrated to America with his family in 1637 and was President of Harvard from 1654 to 1672.

Isaac Chauncey (Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Chauncy
Charles Chauncy (Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Chauncy
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British History Online, Parishes, Woodborough
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/wilts/vol10/pp214-224#h3-0006

In the 17th century Francis Bayley, presented 1638, was ejected for his beliefs during the Interregnum. (fn. 257) He was succeeded by Nathaniel Charlton, also rector of Bishop's Hull (Som.) and presumably absent from Woodborough. (fn. 258) In 1656 Isaac Chauncey was presented and in 1660 petitioned the House of Lords to stop his tithes being taken by the sequestered rector, presumably Bayley. (fn. 259) Chauncey was ejected under the Act of Uniformity in 1662 when the church lacked a surplice, Jewell's Apology, and a book of homilies. (fn. 260) Chauncey emigrated to America and Bayley was restored, but he had ecclesiastical preferments elsewhere and may not have been resident. (fn. 261)

Family Traditions versus Accurate Memory

The Ferris family tradition in 1868 as related by Rev. E.B. Huntington in his "History of Stamford, Connecticut" at page 31 was:

"Tradition invests the emigration of this family to this country with the hues of romantic adventure — the ancestress, high born, following her plebeian lover out into this western world, to share with him here the fortunes which English aristocracy would not allow there."

If that tradition was started by a conversation between Jeffrey Ferris or his first wife and one of their children, then that story was repeated through 8 or 9 generations for over 200 years before it was told to Rev. Huntington. Is it possible that the story changed when told through that many generations over a period of 200 years? Or, was it verbatim the same 230 years later?

Assume Jeffrey's first child, Peter, was told that story at the age of 12 (c.1641) and then he repeated that story to his daughter, Hannah (b.c.1668) at the age of 12 (i.e. 1680). That means the story waited about 40 years before being relayed to the next generation. Might some details in the story have been forgotten or misremembered during those four decades? What about the next child two or three decades later?

Could it be that the "high born" ancestress was not Jeffrey's wife, but rather his or his wife's mother or grandmother, etc.?

It would seem wise to be cautious about relying too much on family tradition passed through 8 or 9 generations over a period of 200 years. Below is an informative quote from an article about memory and the "telephone game" (aka "Chinese whispers").

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From "Are memories reliable? Expert explains how they change more than we realise"
By Robert Nash, Senior Lecturer in Psychology, Aston University (2018)
https://theconversation.com/are-memories-reliable-expert-explains-h...

Your memory probably isn’t as good as you think it is. We rely on our memories not only for sharing stories with friends or learning from our past experiences, but we also use it for crucial things like creating a sense of personal identity. Yet evidence shows that our memory isn’t as consistent as we’d like to believe. What’s worse, we’re often guilty of changing the facts and adding false details to our memories without even realising.

To understand a bit about how remembering works, consider the “telephone game” (also known as “Chinese whispers”). In the game, one person quietly whispers a message to the person beside them, who then passes it on to the next person in line, and so on. Each time the message is relayed, some parts might be misheard or misunderstood, others might get innocently altered, improved, or forgotten. Over time the message can become very different from the original.

The same can happen to our memories. There are countless reasons why tiny mistakes or embellishments might happen each time we recall past events, ranging from what we believe is true or wish were true, to what someone else told us about the past event, or what we want that person to think. And whenever these flaws happen, they can have long-term effects on how we’ll recall that memory in the future.

Take storytelling for example. When we describe our memories to other people, we use artistic license to tell the story differently depending on who’s listening. We might ask ourselves whether it’s vital to get the facts straight, or whether we only want to make the listener laugh. And we might change the story’s details depending on the listener’s attitudes or political leaning. Research shows that when we describe our memories differently to different audiences it isn’t only the message that changes, but sometimes it’s also the memory itself. This is known as the “audience-tuning effect”.
...

Paleography

Paleography is the study of ancient writing systems and the deciphering and dating of historical manuscripts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaeography

The Manningford Bruce Bishop's Transcript that includes the marriage of Jeffrey H/Farris and Dorathy Sheapherd presents several questions and issues. See it on the Geni Sources tab.

--At the top of the document it says it is a register for 1632. But the three line entry before the entry for the marriage of Jeffrey H/Farris and Dorathy Sheapherd appears to be for the son Edward of Rector Thomas Bayly in April 1633. Then the document says "A Register of marriages", followed by the marriage of Jeffrey H/Farris giving the month and day but not the year of the marriage. Was the marriage in July 1632 or July 1633?

--If the "H/F" at the beginning of the name H/Farris was silent and Thomas Bayly was spelling the name phonetically, why would he include an "H" that had no sound?

--Note that the form of the letter "h" in this document is unusual for this period. I did not see a letter "h" written this way in any of the various sample paleographic texts for the 16th and 17th centuries. The letter "h" almost invariably had a hump at the front of the downstroke. In contrast, the "h" in this document looks more like today's cursive "f". But the American lower case cursive "f" has a lower loop that faces forward toward the next character. Again, in contrast, the cursive "f" taught today in schools in England can have a backward facing lower loop like the "h/f" in this document. See "Cursive Writing, Handwriting fonts for UK schools" at https://www.cursivewriting.org/cursive-fonts.html

Note that the double "f" in Jeffery's name in this document looks like the double "f" in the various Middle English examples.

The letter "h" in this document is intended to represent a sound, just like all other letters. But language, spelling and the forms of individual letters were changing during this period. Is it possible that the form of the letter "h" in this document was intended to represent a silent or nearly silent "h"? Or, is it possible that this form of the letter "h" was intended to represent either the letter "h" or the letter "f"? In middle English, the letters "u" and "v" were not separate letters so the use of the letter "u" could actually represent a "v" depending on the context.

Pros, Cons & Questions

Were the Jeffere F/Harris and Dorathy Sheapherd married in Manningford Bruce, Wiltshire in 1632/1633 the American immigrants?

Pros
--Jeffrey is a unicorn. The Jeffere F/Harris baptized in All Cannings in 1609 and married in Manningford Bruce in 1632 or 1633 is one of only a few Jeffrey F/Harrises found during this period.
--The Rector in Manningford Bruce was a Puritan (Thomas Bayly/Baylie (1582-1663)). And Puritanism appears to have been common in the Vale of Pewsey.
--The birth of the Manningford Bruce Jeffere was likely 1609 in All Cannings. That date is close to 1610, Jeffrey's traditional birth date.
--The marriage in 1632 or 1633 is close to Jeffrey's 1635 Watertown appearance. Marriage shortly before migration seems consistent.
--No children are shown as born to a Jeffrey F/Harris in England through 1660.
--Sibling names are consistent with Ferris family names (Elizabeth, Richard, Giles, Thomas, John, Jeffere, William, Katherin).
--Thomas bp. 5 May 1602 in All Cannings could have been the Thomas Ferris massacred at Edward Bennett's plantation in Virginia in 1622.
--Jeffrey Ferris had a daughter named Mary, the same given name as the 1632/1633 Manningford Bruce wife.
--Wiltshire immigrants tended to move away from Watertown. One place they tended to go was Connecticut where Jeffrey went, supporting the proposition he was from Wiltshire.
-- The Jeffery Harris burial in Manningford Bruce on 2 August 1660 specifically indicates this Jeffery was an Anglican, but the 1632/1633 marriage in Manningford Bruce was by a Puritan minister (Thomas Bayly).

Cons
--the "H" in F/Harris may really be an H. (Compare other F's and H's in the same documents.) But if the H was silent, how do we know it should have been an H?
--Not sure how to connect his father John to the Ferris-Ferrers families, although there are other Ferrises in Wiltshire who could have been this John's father.
--Burials of Jeffrey and Dorothey in Wiltshire 1660 & 1676
--Jeffery Harris, 2 Aug 1660, Anglican, Manningford Bruce, Wiltshire
--“Dorothey Harris widdow” on January 9th 1676
--But could a sibling of the Jeffere F/Harris who was married in Manningford Bruce in 1632/1633 have remained in the Vale of Pewsey and named a son after Jeffere? Could the “Dorothey Harris widdow” who died in 1676 simply have been a different Dorothey (e.g. Smith or Jones) who married a different Harris?
--No evidence Dorathy Sheapherd was "high-born"

Questions
--If the "H" was silent, how did they know to place an "H" at the beginning of the name?
--Were the letters "F" and "H" interchangeable in Wiltshire like the letters "U" and "V"?
--The "H" used in the 1632/1633 marriage record is like a modern British cursive "f." Could this indicate that the sound of a silent "h" and an "f" sounding like "v" in vat (for fat) might be represented by the same character?

Rev. Thomas Baylie, B.D.

Married a Parker, big family of Dissenting ministers, emigrants to Newbury.

Married into Mercy Woodbridge family.

Thanks for that! Very interesting.

So, Thomas Bayly (1582-1663) married Sarah Parker (c.1583-1683) whose son (Rev. John Woodbridge VI) by a previous marriage became the husband of Mercy Dudley (1621-1691) who was the daughter of Thomas Dudley (1576-1653) who was the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. I had previously noted an earlier connection between the Dudley and Ferris-Ferrers families in a note above on 11/22/2017 (https://www.geni.com/discussions/158751?msg=1181374).

Even if Thomas Bayly did not migrate to New England, he appears to have been connected to dissident families who did migrate. So, his Sunday sermons may have talked about migration to the New World. That puts Jeffere F/Harris and Dorathy Sheapherd in the right milieu for migration to America.

Wiltshire was a hotbed of Dissenters. I saw something yesterday about “secret meetings” - I’ll dig it up.

We cleaned up Parker’s, getting to them from Bowen / Browns ... see the current discussion https://www.geni.com/discussions/192245?msg=1275412

“Hi Ron,

The "Search for passengers of the Mary & John 1630" series published in the 1990's showed that most of the passengers came from Wiltshire indeed. Anderson notes that George Brown and Richard Brown of Newbury were brothers and that they had a brother Michael per the will noted above. Anderson in The Great Migration suspects they were the sons of William Brown of Calne, Wiltshire with George bp Sep 1611 and Richard in 31 OCT 1613. With the additional bp of Michael on 20 SEP 1612 in Durnford it seems highly likely that this is the correct origin of the Newbury Brown Brothers.

Sarah Brown wife of Rev James Noyes was married in Romsey, Hampshire, England and was the daughter of Joseph Brown. In the Great Migration it is noted she had a brother James Brown but his identification isn't certain. Anderson proposes that he might have been the Rev James Brown of Portsmouth.

And we have several other Brown families from Wiltshire who came to New England. For example The widow Christian Brown who came to New England from Salisbury, Wiltshire with her three sons George, Henry and William Brown to Salisbury, Massachusetts.

These families we very possibly all closely connected but exactly how is not yet clear.

But as far as Browns related to the whole Noyes/Parker complex we should also consider Richard Brown b c1576 who came to Watertown in 1630 and then to Charletown and died before 6 Oct 1660. He saved the life of Robert Parker who was father to Rev Thomas Parker of Newbury, MA and father of Sarah Parker who married first John Woodbridge who also had two sons who came to New England and married second Thomas Baylie. Robert Parker was also brother to Ann Parker who married William Noyes and was mother to the Noyes family we are referring to above:

Rev. Robert Parker, Rector of Patney

So we have another very close relationship - probably a family relationship from Wiltshire between a Brown family and the Noyes/Parker family.”

Yes, Wiltshire does seem to have been more of a hotbed than I had previously thought.

That Browen-Parker discussion has certainly been fast and furious.

So any thoughts on how Rev. George Hunt, M.A. was “loving uncle” to Richard Stevens and therefore also to Dorothy Parker ?

To be an uncle, George Hunt needed to be the brother of Richard and Dorothy Stevens' father (who appears to be unknown) or the brother of their mother (who also appears to be unknown). But since George Hunt and Richard and Dorothy do not share the same last name, George Hunt would logically be the brother of their mother who would have been [unknown given name] Hunt.

Because George's father, John, was saved from execution by Queen Mary's death in 1558, he would seem notable enough to have been documented (perhaps a will before is aborted execution). In fact, the Notes and Queries quote from John Foxe suggests Foxe's Book of Martyrs may tell more of his story.

Am I missing something in plain sight? Or, are you going to tell me this is a trick question and you already know the answer?

Nope, you’re thinking the way I’m thinking. Unfortunately the names of the wives of John Hunt and his known son George Hunt do not seem to be recorded, which is actually a little odd, given their prominence.

There’s a Barbara Shelton showing as wife of a different George Hunt - Barbara Hunt

I suppose she should be ruled out.

That’s eliminated:

https://books.google.com/books?id=upFIAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA365&lpg...

I take thinking like you as a high compliment. If only that would produce an answer. :)

Without the names of the wives, this is obviously more difficult. What if George Hunt was the step-brother of either Richard and Dorothy's father or mother. He might still be called a "loving uncle." Still, that makes it no easier making a connection.

I will keep pondering this.

Did someone say Calne?

Wiltshire notes and queries Topics Wiltshire, Eng. -- History, Wiltshire, Eng. -- Genealogy Publisher Devizes G. Simpson Page 236 https://archive.org/details/wiltshirenotesqu08deviuoft/page/236

And also:

Wiltshire Nonconformists 1662

Baylie, Thomas, born in Wiltshire, of St.
Alban's Hall, 1600, aet. 18, Demy of
Magdalen College 1602, and perpetual
Fellow of that House 1611, being then M.A., rector of Manningford Bruce 1621, later one of the Assembly, and appointed
Rector of Mildenhall,^ on sequestration of Dr. Morley [1646], a fifth monarchy man, buried at St. Peter's, Marlborough,
27 March 1663, writer of both Latin and English works [B.D. 1621, Rector of Beckenham, Kent, 1647, Dict. Nat.
Biog.].

—-

Mr. S. Grayle/ Minister of Tidworth,1655, and An Apology for the Ministers of Wilts.

—-

Marriage Bonds of the Peculiar Court, etc. 3 1

Stevens, John, of Wyly, Wilts, clerk, & Katherine Crawford, of the Close, Sarum, wid. ; B'dman, Oliver Shergold, of the Close, Sarum, gent. Seals: 1 shield of arms ; 1 Nov. 1686.

——

Stevens, John, of Sparkford, Somt., yeo., & Frances
Thorne, of Sherborne, Dorset ; B'dman, John Thorne, of the
same, yeo. Seal : a shield of arms, a chevron betiveen 3
hunting horns, in chiefs lioncels, rampt.\ 8 Dec. 1687.

Marriage Bonds of the Peculiar Couri, etc. 8 1

——-

Thomas Stephens, S.J. — Said to have been the first
Englishman to land in India, 1579 ; a convert, and had for his
fellow novices in Rome, Parsons and Garnett; supposed to
have died and been buried at Goa ; wrote a poem of some
merit in the native language, which has been lately repub-
lished ; a Wiltshireman. Can anybody tell me anything of
his famil}', or the circumstances leading to his conversion,
some supposing it due to Campion.

A. S.

192 IViltshire Notes and Queries.

John SteeYens. — I write to ask you if you can help me
to identify one John Steevens, a clergyman of Wiltshire, who
came to Ireland, and at the Restoration was appointed Vicar
of the parish of Athlone. This John Steevens was the father
of Richard Steevens who founded the first of our modern
hospitals in Duhlin. It is stated in the Entrance Book that
Richard entered Trinity College, Dublin, on October 12, 1670,
at the age of 16 years, and that he was born "in comitatu
Wiltoniae". The Rev. John Steevens died in 16S2, and
mentioned in his will his wife Constance, his son and his
daughter, Richard and Grizel, who were twins. Richard
Steevens died in 1710, but his sister Grizel survived him until
March 17, 1746/7.

A writer who must personally have known Grizel
Steevens, states that the Rev. John Steevens was a Royalist
clergyman who had to leave his parish in England for
preaching against Cromwell, and that to avoid the anger of
the Protector he came to Ireland with his wife and twin
children.

I am very anxious to find verification nSt these state-
ments, to know where John Steevens had his cure of souls,
the surname of his wife Constance, and the date and place of
the birth of his children.

I cannot find any record of John Steevens in Phillipps'
'•' Institiitiones Clericorum in Comitatu IVi/touiae", nor can I
find any record of his marriage in tlie Registers published by
Phillimore. In Phillips I find there was a Richard Stephens
appointed Vicar of Stanton Barnard in 1604, but the record
during the Commonwealth is defective and the next appoint-
ment to Stanton Barnard is given under the date of 1660,
when Samuel Baxter was appointed. It seems to me possible
that this Richard Stephens was the father of the Rev. John
Steevens, but this is a mere conjecture.

T. P. C. KiRKPATRICK, M.D.

John Hunt was an alias for John Lyngfield, the prior of St. James's Church, in Tanbridge, Surrey who had an affair with Anne Parr (Bourchier) c.1541 who was married at the time to William Parr, 1st Earl of Essex. John Hunt and Anne Parr had a child, leading to a scandal. The timing does not appear to be right, but thought I would mention it. Search for "John Hunt" on this page: https://www.1820settlers.com/documents/Bowker_Bourchier/data/toc9.html

Thomas Bayly/Baylie (1582-1663), Christopher Feake (1612-1683) and the Fifth Monarchists

In your note above, Thomas Bayly/Baylie is described as a "fifth monarchy man." https://www.geni.com/discussions/158751?msg=1275887 A leader of the Fifth Monarchy Men was Christopher Feake. Of course, Jeffrey Ferris married Judith Feake as his third wife about 1661. (Judith was the widow of William Palmer.)

Wikipedia says the early life of Christopher Feake is unknown but it does say he was teaching in London in 1643. Judith was the daughter of James Feake of London. Jeffrey Ferris and Judith's brother Robert Feake were both named in the deed for Greenwich, Connecticut.

Briefly, the Fifth Monarchy Men are described as follows:

"Fifth Monarchy Men, an extreme Puritan sect that came into prominence in England during the Commonwealth and Protectorate. They were so called from their belief that the time of the fifth monarchy was at hand—that is, the monarchy that (according to a traditional interpretation of parts of the Bible) should succeed the Assyrian, Persian, Greek, and Roman monarchies and during which Christ should reign on earth with his saints for 1,000 years." https://www.britannica.com/event/Fifth-Monarchy-Men

Is it merely coincidence that Thomas Bayly, the Rector who married Jeffere F/Harris and Dorathy Sheapherd in Manningford Bruce was a Fifth Monarchy Man and Jeffrey Ferris later married Judith Feake who was perhaps related to Christopher Feake a leader of the Fifth Monarchy Men?

Fith Monarchists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Monarchists
Christopher Feake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Monarchists

I don’t believe in Puritan coincidences, it’s all Predestined. It’s the same Feake family group, I would think; a matter of determining which exact persons.

I was wondering what Fifth Monarchy was! Thank you for finding this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Feake Origins unknown, public life begins in London.

Which is where Judith’s Feake family was from, for generations. Tradesmen, craftsmen ...

Coincidence?

Sure !

https://web.archive.org/web/20070404103151/http://www.exlibris.org/...

ter his release from prison, Lathrop decided to follow Henry Jacob's earlier example to seek greener pastures in the New World. In 1634, Lathrop found himself on the safer shores of Boston, Mass. far from London and prison.

Lathrop along with a few of his parishioners established the first puritan church at Scituate, Plymouth Colony in 1635. He moved to Barnstable, Mass. as minister in 1639 and remained there until his death in 1653.

——

Reverend John Lothrop Is my 10th great grandfather.

Looking briefly at a few other sources which included mentions of Christopher Feake, it seems the Fifth Monarchists arose as a recognized group of spiritual thought in the late 1640's and early 1650's. Some of the descriptions make them seem like precursors to Baptists.

Looking back at a couple generations of Judith Feake's ancestors did not reveal a Christopher. But Christopher was jailed by Cromwell and may have been something of a black sheep in the family.

Elizabeth Lathrop (My 9th gg) was a cousin of Elizabeth Scudder

And so we cycle back to “who was wife of George Hunt & how was she related to Dorothy Parker ?”

Sidenote: I grew up in a small town on the west coast. Many of the surnames in that town were the same surnames I have been seeing in 1630's New England. One of those names was one of our family doctors, Dr. Lathrop, a very nice man.

The end of the road for Westward Ho! A long, long Pilgrim trip.

Thomas Bayly (1582-1663), the Manningford Bruce Rector after 1621, was a native of Wiltshire. https://www.geni.com/discussions/158751?msg=1275887 It appears that the Bayly family lived at Wingfield, Wiltshire which is about 3 miles from Trowbridge. (Trowbridge is about 17 miles west of All Cannings.) According to the Wiltshire Community History:

"In 1539 Wingfield was granted to Thomas Bayley by the King and stayed in this family, by descent, until 1647 when it passed to the Ashe family ..." https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/getcom.php?id=247

It seems likely that Thomas Bayly (1582-1663) was part of this Wingfield family. If so, then he may have known of the Ferris family. A Henry Feris was baptised at St. James church in Trowbridge in 1588 to a father also named Henry. (From FindMyPast.com)

Protestantism appears to have held sway in Trowbridge and at St. James church during the 17th century. Again, according to the Wiltshire Community History:

"The 17th and 18th centuries saw much non-conformist activity in the town [Trowbridge] and the parish church [St. James] suffered periods of neglect with many of the wealthier townspeople being Dissenters." https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/getchurch.php?id=333