Catharina van Malabar / Descendant Profiles

So who was Arriantije's mother?

Drummond you are absolutely correct in that the projected/attributed haplogroups indicate there is a mistake in this tree somewhere....which will probably lie where the genealogical evidence is weakest.

I'd like to add that I think it's important in these discussions to distinguish the difference between confirmed haplogoups and unconfirmed (projected/attributed/) haplogroups. It would be great if the projects could use italics or a question mark next to those that are unconfirmed.

In relation to this discussion: only Charlette Barron Hoppe, Glynis van der Walt and their shared matrilineal ancestor Maria Catharina Grobler (through triangulation) -have confirmed haplogroup N21. Cornelia Pyl (Claasen) should be given an unconfirmed N21? (this could only be confirmed by 2 matching lines stemming directly from her).

Likewise Beth Hawkins is confirmed U2C. Her ancestor Arriantjie van Cathrijn (Gabrielsz) is only an unconfirmed U2C?

Until the tree is dismembered Catharina van Malabar should be N21?/U2C?

To explain more clearly.

Confirmed haplogroups can only be given to a profile by:
-testing
-triangulation

Unconfirmed haplogroups are projected up (or down) a male line (Y-DNA) or female line (mtDNA).
They are useful to indicate mistakes, but can't pinpoint where the mistake is unless confirmed.

Ian, I totally agree. I think this South African mtDNA - Female Progenitors project has a large part to play, in this regard, in future.

Instead of listing a number of living mtDNA descendants under a particular SM/PROG, list their descendants by their most recent common ancestor, clearly indicating projected / attributed haplogroup. Degree of testing i.e. HVR1, HVR2 or FMS also seems logical.

Knowing the most distant common ancestor is essential, but having tiers of more recent common ancestors that can be confirmed tier-by-tier would be incredibly helpful. Your example of Charlette Barron Hoppe and Glynis van der Walt's more recent common ancestor Maria Catharina Grobler is great, as their results are being used side-by-side as evidence toward an N21 haplogroup for Cathrina van Malabar.

Once Geni.com removes the 10 generation projection cap and profile managers are faced with three or four (or more?) project mtDNA haplogroups, things are going to get interesting. Having this project as reference would be invaluable.

Two good points happening here:
One about Catharina van Malabar & Arriantjie Van Cathrijn (Gabrielsz). Private User your queries are already under Discussion here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/152391?msg=1063888&page=2 & here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/157268 -
can I ask you to join the conversation there? Those threads already have links to the profiles and an audience of potential researchers to help find a solution.

Indeed!

The usefulness of confirmed (as opposed to predicted) haplogroups is likely to be even more of an issue with Y-DNA lines.....where father-son relationships are well supported with genealogical evidence but an NPE (non-paternity event) has occurred.

Two: Private User's query about the manner in which we format & use the mtDNA Prog Project. It's definitely time to revisit that - so I'm going to start a dedicated Discussion & paste your points there too. Give me a mo...

Okay I created a Discussion dedicated to the proved / unproved haplogroup issue here: https://www.geni.com/discussions/158511?msg=1097785

Hi all: Please kindly have a look: Arriantjie Gabrielsz, SM who is apparenly at thsi stage ?!) my dad's 6th great grandmother.

You
→ Joseph Philippus ''Seffie'' Greyling
your father → Frans Eduard Greyling
his father → Martha Elizabeth Greyling (born Prins)
his mother → Geertruida Johanna Maria Alexandrina Prins (born Kaltwasser)
her mother → Susanna Elizabeth Sophia van Locherenberg, b2c6 SM
her mother → Nicolaas van Locherenberg, b2
her father → Gerbrecht Boshouwer, SM
his mother → Arriantjie Gabrielsz, SM
her mother

I had my dad' s dna tested see: Joseph Philippus Seffie Greyling's mtdna up to her as: U2b

Thanks Wilma Basson ( born Greyling)

Third thread I've had to post this in. Wilma's father's mtDNA leads to Maria Jacobs van Batavia, SM/PROG not Catharina (Catrijn) van Malabar, SM/PROG.

Thanks for also picking up on this thread, Drummond. Please have patience with me, ok? I have tried to rectify them all. Sorry - still learning and kindly remember that we're not all on the same level of ''how to Geni!'' Much appreciated! WB

Sharon look at comnent of Drummond Corrie here !

The 2016 one? That's how we set up the Female Prog MtDna https://www.geni.com/projects/South-African-mtDNA-Female-Progenitor....