Please do NOT merge unsourced duplicates into the MEDIEVAL tree

here's one that's a duplicate
Herbert IV de Vermandois
and the Master Profile
Heribert IV (VI), comte de Vermandois
There are several duplicates in this family
Adelais de Valois et du Vexin, Countess of Valois

Can someone please tell me what an unsourced duplicate is.

The sourced duplicates are actually also a problem, but what we are calling "unsourced duplicates" often come from entire trees that get made, often when users don't really "get" the World Tree concept and how it works (especially since Geni is so unusual in this), so think that they need to add in all their ancestors in order to have them in the tree.

And of course they don't; they merely need to build their branches up enough to be able to connect them or to merge them in.

But as it is, the medieval curators spend hours and hours, days and days, merging in and cleaning up the duplicate trees.

The sourced ones sometimes (though not usually) add information that is not already in the tree.

The unsourced ones never do; they are just names. Sometimes names with dates and places.

But it is why, for instance, there are almost 600 managers of John of Gaunt. Over the course of Geni history, there have been nearly 600 John of Gaunt duplicates created, all of which had to get merged in.

I need help with some merges of doubles starting with https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000050904460138?return=match...

There are doubles going down the branch but I don't have permission to merge some of them for some reason

Count Meginhard von Sponheim, I

Meginhard, Graf von Sponheim

Will take a look later today when I'm on my computer

Done

Don't merge them- they create knock on merge conflicts that last for days.

I am just curious, should we be leaving a note on some of the profiles that are left behind after they were disconnected, advising why they were disconnected?

If I am the user who added them I would want to know.

When the medieval duplicates get detached, the line has been merged in. So the user who created the duplicate line is indeed attached.

It would be HIGHLY onerous to leave notes on the hundreds and hundreds of duplicate profiles.

What I do is contact the user directly, explaining about the World Tree and offering to help with finding medieval profiles.

I immediately invite the manager to join this project - where we've bent over backwards to explain the situation as clearly as we can.

Yep. I send this link, as well.

The influx of medieval duplicate trees hasn't slowed, as far as I can tell, BUT we have methods of dealing with them that are making things tidier and more manageable.

Having the project is nice because it's a sort of impersonal entity.

Almost everyone I've invited has understood quickly what the problem is, and many have become part of the team identifying the duplicate trees before they become a problem. I'm very grateful for the work done by the people collaborating on this project.

Still confused...please hold my hand and explain
Let us use these two profiles as an example Count Meginhard von Sponheim, I
and
Meginhard, Graf von Sponheim

Now this profile Count Meginhard von Sponheim, I was disconnected from parents and wife but it is now stand alone

If you go to the wife Countess Mathilde von Sponheim there are it is still in a tree https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000050905569238 with more stand alone profiles.

I follow what you both are doing but my concern is are we waiting for the user to delete those profiles

Again I am just trying to understand

I share Angus' confusion I'm afraid. I understand the success by inviting people to the project, they likely realize for the first time that it was unnecessary to enter the tree, as they were connected anyway. But they did, and by disconnecting, we've spun off separate trees, haven't we? Which would only create more confusion? OR is it that we want more experienced people to do the merging to conform to the Master Profile and resolve conflicts as we go along??

I can only speak for my method:

I find duplicate medieval trees.

I put one of the duplicates into the medieval duplicate project.

I email the user, with a link to the project, Explain All Things, and offer helpful medieval assistance.

I merge in the tree, and when things get detached, I merge them in too. I find them by going through the user's revision list.

But that is me.

I don't like to leave things floating around, because 1) they attract other duplicate profiles and begin to have a life of their own and 2) slight OCD issue on my part, and they look messy and get in my way when I'm searching.

I expect that different medieval curators have different methods.

Private User
I like your method,

Using this example, would it not be best to merge in Count Meginhard von Sponheim, I

and also
these few profiles https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000050899365472

Just asking to get what is the best practice

I disconnect all the profile's relationships and allow the profile to float off. The main idea being too prevent and to keep preventing the first profile of a duplicate line being merged into the world tree.
If it's a new duplicator, I will merge in the profile once I've removed relationships. If it's a repeat duplicator I don't keep rewarding the behaviour, and leave it to them to request the merge if they want to put the extra work into it. They never do.

The point is to minimise the knock-on merges and conflicts that ripple up and down the tree every time a new unsourced tree is merged in. (These can be created daily)
Curators who want to do the research work that it takes to merge the unsourced duplicate tree in, and deal with all the knock on merges and data conflicts that ensue, are very welcome to, as long as they do follow through to the end - usually a couple of hours' work. At the moment there are 6 Medieval conflicts in my merge Centre created by curators recently merging in duplicates trees, but running out of time or patience to chase the exponentially increasing ripple effects down.

If you have the spare time to merge in the Count and the line beneath him, you should do it, Angus - just follow through on all the conflicts that ensue. I no longer act as Deborah's merge assistant, as she knows she can request management.

To my mind, time more productively spent on the Medieval Tree at the moment is researching areas that can be relationship locked - then the Geni programme itself will cut relationships for us, before they're merged in.

Thanks to all of you

Sharon's method makes sense to me, but so does mine -- the only thing is, once one gets started on merging in one of the duplicate trees, it needs to get merged in and cleaned up.

Frankly, I prefer to do merging in and cleaning up myself, especially in the Welsh! Because the medieval tree is REALLY HARD and it is easy to make mistakes.

Personally i like to merge in the whole tree but i am much less active than Sharon and not ant sort of expert so it is slow going.

I use multiple screens to try and make sure i get everyone and then nearby issues to resolve all issues. If i cant resolve an issue i start a Discussion and pray for a saviour. If i miss anything i humbly apologise and will revisit if anyone lets me know.

I seem to recall there is a way to get merge centre to show conflicts i have created but cant remember how.

No. I want that function too! I want to be able to make sure I've cleaned up after myself. It is in the pipeline but Mike says not yet.

Anne and Mike, Under Research, click on Merge Center. Resulting page will show you requested Merges, Tree Conflicts and Data Conflicts. To the right under Viewing, you can change from My Relatives to Managed by You, Followed by You, etc which will then show you Data and Tree conflicts for that bunch. From there you can click on those and work from there. Good luck!

Thank you, Tyler! We mean something different, though. Much of the work we do doesn't show up in those collections. So we are waiting for another tool, one which will show us tree and data conflicts that we have created, whether or not they are on profiles we manage or curate or follow. As I said, this function is on the list, but it isn't in the works yet.

this is fantastic! thank you!

thank you Tyler. its fun but exhausting. how do i lock pages lower in my tree (those that I know to be correct due to documentation) where people are trying to change info to make their lines fit?

Ask a Curator to do it for you, Richarx - but the profile must be well sourced, part of the world tree, and not a duplicate of one we have already MPed. In those cases, you just request management of the existing profile.

Richard Albert Hendrix, Jr, there is even a specific thread where you can post a link to the profile you want protected:

https://www.geni.com/discussions/166171