Please do NOT merge unsourced duplicates into the MEDIEVAL tree

https://www.geni.com/search/matches?id=6000000009342315125&src=...

Their relationship data is completely different. I removed the match

I am sorry, I am relatively new. I thought that the way to connect to the World tree was to enter a duplicate profile into my tree, then eventually Geni would notify me of a possible tree merge, at which point I would collaborate with the manager of the other profile. Obviously, that not the way it works. I was never notified by Geni that a tree merge was possible, that's why I sent the original message noting a duplicate and asking to be merged.

Again I am sorry for any issues I may have caused, however, to set the record straight, I never performed any merges. March Oberto II is now in my tree, but I did not perform the merge. I'm not sure who did. I did see three or four duplicated profiles (not many MANY) and I deleted the duplicate profiles in my tree. If there are more duplicates involving my tree, let me know and I will take responsibility for the corrections.

Could someone explain the correct procedure. If I have someone in my tree who is not in the World Tree, but is related to someone in the World Tree (spouse, parent, etc.), how to I get that link accomplished without adding a duplicate profile?

I would like to work within the established protocol's.

Bernard Albanese

Hi Bernard, any relation to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Albanese ?

>If I have someone in my tree who is not in the World Tree, but is related to someone in the World Tree (spouse, parent, etc.), how to I get that link accomplished without adding a duplicate profile?

The first thing you need to bear in mind is that as you are a part of the World Tree (WFT) there is no longer a “my tree”, unless you are talking about maintaining a tree on another website or offline? You have been on Geni a couple of years and added a couple of hundred profiles so I am not going to try and explain how to add family members, I assume you know the basic mechanics.

How to make a link without creating a duplicate? Well if you have evidence that John Doe, who is on the WFT, had a wife who is not shown on Geni then the simplest way to add that profile to the WFT is to go to John Doe’s profile and add her. Creating a duplicate would be the way to go if Mrs Doe and her ancestors are already on Geni but not linked to John, regardless of if Mrs Doe is on the WTF, making one duplicate to facilitate joining two trees together is not a problem.

The problem that this project set out to tackle is users making trees on Geni which start with themselves and extend all the way back 1000 (or more) years to the edge of modern recorded history (obviously I am being Euro-centric), the problem specifically is that we don’t need 999 profiles of Charlemagne or Henry VIII because as soon as they were added to the WFT the first time that was all that was needed and every time that a new duplicate is added it takes time and effort of someone to merge the duplicate in. Merging a single duplicate into the WTF is easy and almost anyone can do it, merging a small tree into the WFT is quite easy, merging a 30 generation tree into the WFT is a big job and especially tedious if it adds no value, merging a 30 generation tree into the WFT when the two trees don’t match is a huge task fraught with “danger”.

... merging a 30 generation tree into the WFT when the two trees don’t match is a huge task fraught with “danger”.

And when you are merging the third such tree that someone has built in the past month you end up screaming, throwing things at the computer and start a Project called "Please do NOT merge duplicates into the Medieval tree" :)

Alex, thank you for you thoughtful answer. When I said "my tree", I wasn't thinking, because you're right, all the profiles are now part of the WFT. What I meant is that part of the tree I am managing. Until a few days ago, it was my tree, but its not anymore.

:) welcome to the family!

Alex;

No relation to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Albanese that I know of. I can only trace my father's family back to great grandparents.

My mother, however, is descendent from a minor noble family in Sicily. Since nobility family history was better documented than peasant families, and tend to inter-marry with other nobility, I was able to trace back to Medieval times.

Hello Bernard. Don't worry - we all did it when we didn't know. This team is an attempt to get the word out to users who work on the Medieval Tree as quickly as possible. Welcome - the more help we have, the better the medieval tree will be. Spread the word and invite other users you come across working on the Medieval tree. (I think we're close to the 'tipping point' in our favour) :-)

Reminder: Profiles attached to this project or included in this discussion must be DUPLICATES of sourced profiles (usually MPs) that are already on geni.

Hi All,

I have questions regarding the protocol to be used when dealing with duplicates for profiles pre-dating 1500. First let me explain. in 2014 I entered the following profile:

Giovanni De Aritio II Baron Benali e Cardinale

along with other members of this family tree, ancestors and decedents. At that time my tree was not connected to the WFT, but it is now.

I was browsing this part of the tree when I saw the blue + sign. I saw that this other profile had been added after mine.

Baron Giovanni De Aritio Di Cardinale, I

This later profile has one manager and is not an MP.

I am convinced they are duplicates of each other, along with some ancestors who I believe are also duplicated (but not flagged by Geni). I believe my entries are more accurate, as I have multiple sources of family history available to me (Giovanni is a direct ancestor of mine).

My first question is, since his profile and the other profiles date from before 1500, do I need to defer to the experts in this discussion group, or in the related project referring to Medieval Tree Clean-up, to actually implement the resolution, or since no MP is involved, can I resolve this issue privately with the other manager?

I have a second question as well. Geni realized there was a potential duplicate, but I was not notified, I accidently saw the blue +. Is there a utility or function that would show me all the potential duplicates? I would really like to resolve and clean-up and duplicated that involve profiles I manage.

Bernard

Good questions Bernard. If there is no MP and you're the only manager, you are the expert here. (On MPs everyone talks through the documentary evidence together)
Importantly, while neither of you have sources on your profiles to back up your data, both profiles have equal status as conjectures.
If your profile is already in the world tree, then merging it with the other profile is going to trigger tree conflict alerts on lines course to this one. Without documentation other people may resolve these in favour of the other line, so it's a good idea to add documentation to your line and get a curator to MP your profiles. We can only remove the duplicate line if we know yours is the correct one.

The tree matches -blue boxes- are in a list on your profile. I'll post the steps to find the later, but right now my tablet's battery is running down. Remember DO NOT MERGE IN duplicates prior to 1600.

*lines close to this one

Sharon;

I have added sources to all Arezzo male members born before 1500.
As you have requested, I have not done any merges. Can I ask you to MP the entries and delete the duplicate line, or is there someone else I should ask?

Sharon,

I know where the merge center is. All it shows me are record matches and smart matches. These are no tree merges shown, yet when I look at the profile in question, there is a blue box in the lower left-hand corner. How do I know if there aren't other duplicates that I am unaware of?

Bernard

Bernard. I am not sure of Sharons opinion but personally i would not like to see the dupe deleted. Just because you created the profile a few months earlier does not give u a better "claim" so to speak. Thank you for adding sources and citations.
Curators have tools which normal users do not which can make merging much easier.

I dont know why there is no Tree Match for these guys as they do look like dupes but just as is mo Tree Match here u will often get Tree Matches for profiles that are clearly not a match. Use the search person tool. Try spelling variations. Use google.

For this particular profile could you please walk down the duplicate tree to find the youngest profile which appears in both trees and post those two people here.

I have also invited the other manager, 6000000027498098544 , to the project. She is a Pro and has been active on Geni not too long ago

Deborah Grech

Bernard, are you saying the blue match is showing on tree view but not in your merge centre?

Sharon;

That is exactly what I am saying, my merge center shows me smart matches (mostly to heritage.com records) and record matches, but no tree matches. The only reason I found the duplicate record for [6000000025542747047] is that I was doing a name search for Arezzo (as Alex is suggesting), and came across the profile entered by Deborah. When I clicked on the profile to see the tree I saw the blue square indicating a possible match. If I had not done the search, I would not have found the match. I would have expected Geni to have warned me in some way.

Alex;

Perhaps when I said delete the duplicates, I didn't use the correct terminology. Perhaps merging the dups together is what I meant. However, let me do some additional research before we do anything. My source material contains a lot a of Arezzo tree branches that I did not enter because they were not my direct ancestors. Let me see if I can find evidence that helps determine if they are the same profiles or not. Perhaps Deborah's branch is different from mine. I will report back.

Bernard

Sharon, Alex, Deborah;

I have done some additional research. There are duplicate profiles between the profiles entered by Deborah and by me, but not they are not the two profiles identified by Geni as possible duplicates. I have already gone into the profile I entered, and indicated to Geni that they are not the same person.

The youngest duplicate I found is Francesco Arezzo II Baron Benali e Cardinale entered by me Francesco De Aritio II Barone Benali e Cardinale and Francesco Arezzo Francesco De Aritio II Barone Benali e Cardinale entered by Deborah.

Deborah has entered Francesco’s daughter and decedents from her, I entered Francesco’s son (my direct ancestor) and descendants from him. This does not represent a conflict. Deborah has entered Francesco’s brother and his descendants. My sources have the same brother and the same immediate descendants, but I did not enter them since they were not my direct ancestors.

Going backwards in time, the next three profiles (Giovanni, Francesco and Matteo) are the same (duplicates) in both trees. Deborah shows a wife of Matteo, and a brother Giacomo, which my sources also show, but I didn’t enter.

Then there is a discrepancy. I have two sources that differ. One source matches the sequence entered by Deborah. However, that source acknowledges in a note (in Italian, but I had it translated) that the dates are too spread apart and that there are probably one or more generations missing. My other source shows two additional generations at this point. Going backwards in time they are: Alderisio Arezzo Alderisio De-Ariçio and Matteo Arezzo Matteo? De Aricio.

Going back in time, the next two generations Andreolo and Ruggerio are duplicates in both trees. (In the case of Andreolo, I did not enter a first name, being unsure). Deborah’s tree ends with Ruggerio, however, continuing going back in time, my tree shows an additional three generations, ending with Aldo I, the commonly acknowledged founder of the Sicilian Arezzo family.

In general, my profiles contain more information (dates, titles, etc.) whereas Deborah’s profiles have spouses that I am missing. With Deborah's consent, I hope that merging these entries does not prove to be a great deal of effort.

Hi Bernard,
Thanks for the detailed response, I have merged the trees following your description. Could you resolve the data conflicts which have resulted, I think that at the moment in each case your version is being displayed.

The profiles for Francesco De Aritio II Barone Benali e Cardinale were not showing up as a match as your profile was born 1395 but Deborah's profile had an estimated DOB of 1410 to 1470, so Geni's software did not think they were close enough to warrant a suggestion.

Took 15 minutes wish they were all so easy :)

Alex, Thanks.

Already edited the names on two profiles where Deborah's seemed to be more accurate.

Are those that data conflicts you were referring to?

Bernard

You're doing really well Bernard but that is not quite what I meant.

Alderisio De-Ariçio had as his father Matteo in your tree but in Deborah's tree his father was Ruggero. When merging Geni doesn't know who's data is correct so it just picks one data set (semi random but not important here) to display. Rather than deleting the data that Deborah had entered it stores it away creating a Data Conflict.

If you go to the profile of Matteo? De Aricio and press the Actions button at the top right of screen one of the options will be Resolve Conflicting Data and choosing that option will bring you to this screen:

https://www.geni.com/merge/resolve/6000000025542139734

From here you can select which data set Geni should keep and which it should delete.

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000018239864080?return=match...

Unsourced duplicates.

Sorted

Alex;

Done.

https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000014078441531?return=match...

Unsourced

Are these profiles in the same nature and degree of family relationship ?

Xerxes I 'the Great', king of Persia is Deisi Vaz Pinto's 74th great grandfather!
https://www.geni.com/path/Deisi-Vaz-Pinto+is+related+to+Xerxes-I-th...

and "his wife"

Queen Esther of Persia is your 20th cousin 55 times removed.
Queen Esther of Persia