Barnes in Ireland

Very nice! DNA testing seems pretty certain I descend from Brinsley Barnes who lived in Dublin, but was of English descent. It's autosomnal but we match many from that line. So if that's of help, there are "many many" Barnes matching.

Good to hear! I updated the projects links as the Barnes DNA Project link was dead and I thought a direct link to the FTDNA project would be an idea. Hopefully, we'll get more Barneses testing. As I say, I doubt I'll get my Barneses back more than a generation or so (even if we can work out where in Ireland they came from) so that might mean the only living Barneses I'll have a papertrail to are my first cousins and their descendants. Which means I'm going to have to go deep on the DNA to see what that brings up, as well as seeing if any first cousins will test. So the more testing the better!

My autosomal DNA is at FTDNA, but I've also uploaded it to GEDmatch and DNA.land (the latter is handy as it uses Geni.com for the family tree) so I should be able to spot any atDNA matches that emerge. At the moment none of the matches are for Barneses.

Interesting to hear Brinsley Barnes was from England - you never know what you find when you keep digging. My mother is a Comerford (I suspect my first project might be for that surname) and it appears the family came over from England in the 1300s (from Quemerford). I have other Anglo-Norman "Irish" names amongst my ancestors, like Pentony, so being "irish" often means when in time you draw the line.

Lots of Irish Quakers. Who knew. You really need to chase the religion.

Yes, I hadn't even considered that some of the family might be Quakers (as everyone in my family is Catholic). Something to keep an eye out for.

As a quick update, I did further analysis on my Barnes matches and there is nothing more than you'd expect for someone in R-M269. However, I don't really have a good quality match with anyone, the best is a GD 0 at 25 markers with a man from Switzerland (this gives a 99+% estimate of the last common ancestor begin in 20 generations).

I did the BIG Y and this puts me in a haplogroup downstream of R-L2, which probably expanded out from somewhere around the Alps in the Iron Age (which might explain the Swiss match, although at a much earlier date than the estimate). There are very few people in the haplogroup and we are scattered around the place: Ireland, England, Norway, Italy and Mexico (possibly originating in Spain).

So I am sure I am linked to other Barneses, it just looks like none of them have tested their DNA yet.

Oh and, coincidentally, a descendant of Brinsley Barnes (although with different parents to those shown here) popped up in my Family Finder matches, but I am a member of the Barnes DNA Project (the first "foreigner") and I knew I wasn't related to them - no-one in group 11 shows up in my Y-STR results, even at 12 markers.

Brinsley Barnes parents are still controversial, but I have some trust that the ones on Geni are the "best known." It would be interesting to figure out how you match this other Barnes in reality - his wife / wives are also controversial. :)

From what I've read the descendants of Brinsley Barnes seem to match the descendants of the current ancestors of him on here. From what I've seen I think the Y-STR results might need updating and some SNP testing done to really confirm it though.

And from what I can tell my new match doesn't come from their Barnes side, as they have other Irish ancestors it seems to have probably come from there. It is just an interesting coincidence that a descendant of Brinsley Barnes would pop up and I'd have already heard of him. It is a small world indeed.

Just an added note as it has been a while since I jumped in....Brinsley Barnes a Quaker is listed near my Youngbloods on the Orange Co, NC Regulator List before the Battle of Alamance. Some of my Youngbloods were Quakers. I am trying to find a link of my NC YBs to the PA YBs (PA as in Wm Penn Quakers). I understand the Barnes moved to NC from PA...trying to prove my Quaker YBs in NC came from PA...My ancestor's YB land was adjacent to Herman Husband and we like the other Regulators fled NC... in our case to SC...and TN.

Larry,

From notes for Brinsley;

" He paid Taxes in 1734 in Kennett twp., Chester co, PA. He died on 5 MAY 1796 in Wilkes Co, NC. He was buried in Wilkes co, NC?."

Take a look at that township, perhaps

Thank you so much Erica...will follow up

I've now got my paternal first cousin's atDNA results back, so I can filter out a lot of Barnes results and there are parental matches with Barnes ancestors who all share the same segment of DNA. This includes the descendant of Brinsley Barnes. All of these Barnes ancestors come from around London - mainly Kent and Essex (and one Middlesex). It is possibly a coincidence, as there is definitely one Barnes family from Kent I'm definitely not related to. This raises the possibility that my Barneses weren't in Ireland very long - when we broke the brick wall the only bit of information that we scraped together that seemed wrong was my grandfather's claim he was "English through and through". It is technically incorrect (as both parents were born in Ireland), but it may be he knew his Barnses came from England. Unfortunately, it is probably not within a time frame that I can get a paper trail back to Blighty, although given the dates, it should be possible to push back another generation. Unfortunately, I tried to trace the best match in Ireland, but I couldn't make it fit:
https://www.geni.com/discussions/166371

The problem, at the moment, is a lack of SNP testing, which can quickly rule connections in or out. It is, for example, likely that there are a number of Barnes families in the area (especially if it is a locational surname, from Barnes in Surrey) and SNP tests would give definitive answers. Fingers crossed the current sale gets a few more results in.

Worth noting that my haplogroup, P312>U152>L2>BY3483, makes more sense in SE England, as it is Gaulish (ish).

I'm still digging though, it might turn out to be nothing, but I've had enough twists and turns it will be no surprise if there is another sharp turn in the story.

Anyway,

Here's where my Brinsley Barnes tree gets sketchy and also shows up in Ireland

George Barne

What do you know. County Kent, like you were saying.

BUT there must have been many of them and with name variations also. Is there anything more we can do on paper trail?

The number of Barneses in the area, a lot of whom went to the US (I've updated the project front page with some I've found), will make it difficult to separate the various families just from baptism, marriage and burial records (it would also be pushing it on the gravestone front) and not every family is fancy enough to leave wills (although I have done well on my own lines with English farming folk and the wills were vital). So I think DNA is going to be vital in figuring out the branches. If people have a male Barnes in their life, get him tested - Y-STR has proved some use, but it is only SNP testing (like the Big Y) which will nail everything down and help create a tree where the records run out.

Last day of FTDNA's sale:
https://www.familytreedna.com/sale

I have made progress in another branch of my haplogroup using Y-STR and Y-SNP and it can not only help with the more recent history, but can tease out some interesting deeper history.

So the core of my autosomal matches who all share the same chunks of DNA on the paternal side have the following ancestors:

* Brinsley Barnes, who, as Erica points out looks to have roots in Kent (thanks to DNA testiing)

* Thomas Barnes, of Marlboro born in Barking Essex in 1636

* A descendant of the marriage between Timothy Barnes (1710-1750) and Phoebe Barnes (1712-1793). The former is a descendant of William Clifton Barnes, II son of William Barnes (not listed) who was born in England in 1610. The latter is descended from Thomas Barnes, Sr. (1623-1691) Barking, Essex and moved to the US, but his haplogroup is I-M253 so we can rule him out

* Bridget Harbert (Barnes) (1616-1682) born in England, moved to US)

* Mary Andrews of Farmington born in London, Middlesex in 1622, although there seems to be some debate over whether she was a Barnes or not

* Emma Barnes (or Potter) whose son,John Saunders, was born in Woolwhich, Kent in 1864. [https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:261Z-652 This John Saunders] has a mother who is a Barnes (thanks to the improved GRO search). He married an Annie Nightingale and seems to have moved to the US.

* A Barnes or Barns born in London, still seeking details

So there are an awful lot of Thomas Barneses knocking around (and more that I haven't yet got a match with) as well as some William Barneses, which is consistent with my family:
Thomas Barnes

The fact that Barking is on the other side of the Thames from Woolwich seems compelling, but there is nothing definitive. As well as some solid SNP results, I'm interested in finding an atDNA match with distant cousins who are Barnes descendants, as that'd really narrow it down. At the moment, it is guesswork, although one of the people I match with returns 94 In Common With matches out of a total of 223 phased paternal matches, which suggests we are looking at a major line on my paternal, and the bulk of the rest of my paternal side is from County Wexford or the Wexford/Wicklow border (and I am in touch with quite a few of those matches).

Bill , I did a "How Are You Related" to your Timothy Barnes who married Phoebe .

Timothy Barnes

It is a very distant connection and goes through many linages .

Your Thomas Barnes 1636 appears as
Thomas Barnes, of Marlboro

I handle an account for an uncle @ FTDNA .. his family finder is yielding up 4 males and 2 females Barnes as distants on the family finder search. There are 15 pages of family finders who have Barnes on their ancestral names lists.

Three of the 4 Barnes males have R-M269 one is in the R group . The one who has Thomas Barnes 1636 listed is proposed to be a 5th C to my uncle , none are sharing a tree all are private .

also one of his Barnes family finders has listed a James Barnes father of Brinsley 1713 whom I have found in another area of my tree. as a 5th C 10TR. this Barnes is from Ireland .

Brinsley Barnes

"I handle an account for an uncle @ FTDNA .. his family finder is yielding up 4 males and 2 females Barnes as distants on the family finder search"

That is promising - in comparison I have one actual Barnes, he is a male but I've yet to get a look at his Y-STR results to see if we match (as I can't seem to find him in my matches, I suspect not).

"There are 15 pages of family finders who have Barnes on their ancestral names lists."

Indeed. That was a problem I had/have too, but getting a paternal first cousin to test really helped filter a lot out. It leaves a lot in, the 5 I list are just my core set and I haven't started digging through all the others to see who else matches on those chromosomes (a lot I suspect).

"Three of the 4 Barnes males have R-M269 one is in the R group . The one who has Thomas Barnes 1636 listed is proposed to be a 5th C to my uncle , none are sharing a tree all are private ."

That is annoying. It'd be worth contacting them if they all match on the chromosomes as it might shake more information loose. That is the slow part of this whole process, although I have had more hits than misses, which is encouraging. We also really need them in the Barnes Project on FTDNA if they aren't there already.

Erica ,
I have a connection to your George Barnes ,

Anne Barne

Also , to Bill I could go back in FTDNA and see if I can send an email to a few of my uncles -cousins match's " Barnes" . I will see if they are registered users here .

To Larry Youngblood , I have 2nd or 3rd cousins in Warren Co. Tenn who are Youngbloods . If I am not mistaken one of my maternal grandparents had a sibling who married a Youngblood ..I was told (?) they were Cherokee blend ?
I will have to ask another family member about them .
I have even been to the home of a Youngblood in Woodbury Tn .. but I was really young ! I have a picture of the specific Youngblood I am related to If I can find it will add it to my files when I find the family connection .
My grandmother was Lucille Foster she married a Mears , her parents Robert Lee Foster and Isabelle Deberry sometimes Derryberry .

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/barnes/default.aspx?section=yr...

George barns had been listed in Group 11 along with Brinsley Barnes but I don't see him there currently. I do know there's controversy about the name of his wife and any children

Brinsley Barnes is my line through his daughter Lydia. Both Lydia and her sister Anne had Huntingtons Disease, a genetic disease they would have inherited from a parent. I've always wondered why Brinsley planned for his care with his sons. Either he or the girls' mother had HD. Follow the disease.

Erica, it might be someone has revised their tree. I checked logged in (as some results aren't visible unless you are) and it isn't there.

For future reference, this is group 11:

44352 Charles Barnes, b.1845, SC - d.1922, AL R-M269
122011 R-M269
23172 R-M269
10052 Brinsley Barnes, b abt 1713 R-M269
81370 Brinsley Barnes, c1715, Ireland R-M269
227387 James Marion Holder R-M26912
470149 James Barnes father of Brinsley b. 1713 d. 1794 R-M269
439560 James Barnes father of Brinsley b. 1713 d. 1794 R-M269
470283 George W. Cottle, born abt 1806, West Virginia R-PF5191
88936 Mr. Brinsley Barnes Sr., b. 1705 and d. 1796 R-M269

The one SNP result (R-PF5191) is a clear match with the two Brinsley Barnes descendants above and probably the one below (it is only 12 markers, so it isn't possible to tell definitively).

Running the numbers you get two main groupings pretty much as listed - the first one is an outlier, the next five all seem to be related and you then have the next three grouping. There are clearly a couple of pairs of closeish cousins in there (the one with James Barnes and Brinsely Barnes listed as ancestors - 180 and 150 years separation, respectively) with the others and the other falling with them but at a greater distance. The problem is that none of them have tested at Y-111 markers (which would allow a better analysis of the timing of the most recent ancestor) and quite a few are only 12 or 25 markers.

This is where those Barneses would fit - downstream of L21 > DF13 (a big insular Celtic group):

http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=2848

Although, this is getting a little off-topic - I might start a couple of threads on different Barnes families, especially when we have the DNA too.

Hi just wondering if anyone has any thoughts or information on my Barnes line. the oldest Barnes relative have been able to trace is my great grandfather John Barnes born about 1842 in Ireland, possibly from county Meath. He married an Elizabeth Fagan born about 1846 possibly also from county Meath. They came to NYC about 1867. I have not found their marriage or immigration records. I have test with FTDNA Big Y Y 111 also their Barnes family project. I have no Barnes matches their but I have Byrnes matches. Professor Tyrone Bowes did a study for me and believes my ancestral names was Byrne, before it was anglicized. I believe most of my surname matches are Irish with some possible. Scot surnames. my Haplogroup is CTS8580 which is down stream from M222 S658 D104 DF105 DF85 to CTS 8580. If anyone has suggestions or any ideas how I can proceed it would be great appreciated.

James, sounds like you are quite a long way down the road as it is. Quite thoughts:

* Have you spoken to any of your Byrne matches about SNP testing? I see you are on The Big Tree but out on an undifferentiated limb and getting some Byrnes in there might help define your part of the tree:
http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=587

* Have you joined the Irish Y DNA project on FTDNA? Garth there might have some extra advice.

* You could post requests for help here, as the 1840s are probably recent enough to find them in the records (if nothing else it puts a hook in the water for other unknown, distant cousins to pick up):
https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/meath
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/meath/

Byrne -> Barnes would be another interesting origin of the surname. If you haven't landed James in Ireland yet, it is possible that the name change happened on arrival in the US (as I've said above, the Irish accent certainly seems to have caused shenanigans with names in my family when officially record keepers tried to transcribe their surname).

Thank you very much Bill, your suggestions and observations are appreciated. I am still learning how to put together the pieces of my family puzzle together as I have much to learn about research.

It never ends, James. I'm still finding out new angles of attack. As I mentioned above, getting a first cousin to test seems to have been the most helpful thing so far and it is something I recommend if you have no easy way of separating out your Family Finder results. Getting your results uploaded to GEDmatch is also a useful step, if you haven't done it already.

Eventually, with Y DNA anyway, you get beyond the more general help and you need to put your heads together with the people in your halpogroup. As you are Insular Celtic it might not be quite so informative on the deep history of your haplogroup, but it has been invaluable for us as we've come a long way in more recent times and ended up in some unusual places - the story of how we got there is still emerging. However, it could be vital for your more recent family history. I am interested to see that Byrne can come from a couple of roots, one being Ó Beirn or Ó Beirne. You can see how that could get mixed up and become Barnes. FTDNA's Byrne project has a number of other origins and it might be working with them, you could identify which

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/byrne/about/background

In fact, there are two groups of Barneses from two different haplogroups (neither of them yours - R-L159 and I-Y4751), so this has clearly happened a number of times in the past:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Byrne?iframe=ycolorized

Thanks Bill your advice is insightful and appreciated. I have uploaded my DNA to Gedmatch, I think i have to spend a little more time navigating the site and getting familiar with it. Perhaps with my haplogroup CTS8580 I can get some clues from the Ireland group on FTDNA?