Hálfdanar Saga Eysteinsson

Do you have a cite for that phrase? I would like to check what it looks like in other languages (and contex, so that I have an idea which Eystein this might bet!)

I suspect more than one Sigurd Hjort. Names were recycled extensively!

There are multiple Halfdans around - the one that's been most confused with Halfdan Eysteinsson is Halfdan Sveidasson - apparently there's a large number of trees that have them wrong.

Of course the saga might be wrong (or rather: conflicting with other sagas). Claiming descent from Sigurd Snake-in-the-eye seems like a very common thing to do in these stories.

The Saga of Halfdan Eysteinsson Translated by George L. Hardman 2011

http://www.germanicmythology.com/FORNALDARSAGAS/HalfdanEysteinssonH...

Has English and Norse

The master profile for Sigurd Hjort: King Sigurd Hjort Helgesson, King of Ringerike

Hm. Having scanned the saga .... sagas that claim historicity usually end with lines showing how the principals are related to present-day kings. This one seems to peter out into a branch that's unknown.

I suspect that hanging the tree from this saga onto the (for now) lonely Åsa daughter of Sigurd and not expecting it to match anywhere would be a Good Thing.

There's also a path from Odin to Sæming that this saga tries to latch on to. You might want to locate that on the Geni-tree.

You mean this one? I'll contact the Curator and see if he can help ;)
Saemingr, King in Hålogaland

Yep. Note that this claimed ancestry places Halfdan around year 300 (based on current approximate-dates in the profiles), while the descent from Ragnar Lodbrok places him around year 800. Not good for building a consistent history!

I don't put much credence on dates for these profiles. Is the 200 a strong scholarly tradition or an internet meme?

Halfdan Eysteinnsson

Alex Moes Internet meme. It does indicate that there are lines with many generations between Odin and Ragnar - at the moment, Odin is Ragnar's 13th great grandfather (https://stage.geni.com/path/Ragnar-Lodbrok-Sigurdsson+is+related+to...) - via Volsunga saga for Heidrek & co, I think.

From Landnama:

...Bjornolf, and another named Hroald, they were the sons of Hromund, the son of Grip. They went from Thelmark on account of manslaughters, and they took up their abode at Dale's Firth, in Fjalir. The son of Bjornolf was Orn, the father of Ingolf...

Working backwards our anchor point is Ingólfr Arnarson who we can reasonably assume is born c 844.
So Orn born c 814
Bjornolf born c 785
Which gives us and approximate date of birth for Hromund of 700 - 750 AD, let us just say c725 for the sake of argument.

Now recall from Haqlfdan's saga that Hromund is a contemporary of Trond (they are brothers-in-law), it does not follow that they are the same age so for this argument let us say Trond is born c700.

Now, from Halfdan's saga, Trond is the son of Saeming "son of Odin" which gives Saeming an approximate birth of c670.
There is then a disconnect between this "Odin" born c640 and Odin All-father born c 200.
Either (A) they are different Odins, or (B) the saga is just wrong, or (C) Saeming is not literally "a son of" Odin but rather a descendant.... or (D) none of the above.

Following the logic of my previous post if Trond is born c700 then his son Eysteinn is born c730.

Eysteinn is married to Asa who is apparently the great granddaughter of Ragnar Lodbrok.

Except that Ragnar is born some time in the 700s, for the sake of this exercise let's say Ragnar is born c700, so Sigurd Snake-eye born c730, Aslaug Sigurdssdatter born c760 and Sigurd Hjort born c790 and his daughter Asa born c820.

Clearly this Eysteinn cannot marry this Asa.

Changing the generation gap to 20 years would make Asa born c780, say of marriageable age in 790, by which time Eysteinn is in his 60s.

In the saga Asa dies when Halfdan is 15 years old, Eysteinn goes viking gets remarried and lives a few more years now in his 70s!!

Does not seem to work, especially if you remember that i have argued elsewhere that the character "Ragnar Lodbork" was born c795.

A third piece of evidence exists in kalfi 55, the family of Hunda-Steinar:

"There was a jarl in England called Hunda-Steinar. He married Álöf, Ragnar loðbrók’s daughter, and their children were Bjorn, father of Audun skökull..."

Audun is an early settler could he provide us with another Anchor Point" to work backwards from? His profile is currently born c 870 so his great grandfather (Ragnar) would be born c780

I have no idea how reliable Audun's DOB is.

I have no idea what all this means, perhaps tomorrow it will make sense.

Of course there is option (E) that the three references to Ragnar are in fact to three different men.

I guess the simplest answer is that there is no consistency so trying to make a consistent family tree on Geni is impossible.

All the references to Ragnar and all the references to Odin are likely to be *intended* to be the same man - tying these families to well known legends.

I think the two most likely explanations for the discrepancies are:
- Use of the term "son" as meaning "descendant of"
- That the storyteller did not know, and did not care, whether the lines related in various sagas were in fact consistent or not.

I think we have reasonably generation-consistent links back to Ragnar, but making the lines to Odin consistent is a lost cause.

I agree with you whole heartedly, except for your comment regarding Ragnar, I don't think the math supports Eysteinn's wife (Asa) being Ragnar's great granddaughter.

I do not know if there is any significance that Eyvind Skaldaspiller refers to Saeming's father (ie Odin) as "Asa's son". As i understand it Halfdan's Saga is not nearly as old as some of the others, perhaps the integrity is not as reliable.

I think we should disconnect Asa from her parents with a Curator Note that she is too old to connect to them.

Where did Eyvind Skaldaspiller enter the picture? He's something of an one-liner figure in Snorre, if I remember rightly.

He is passingly referred to on the English version of Saeming's wikipedia page.

Added this to his profile - Eyvindr «Poet-spoiler» Finnsson (in Norwegian).

"Asa's son" is probably mistranslation for "son of the Æsir" (the particular tribe of either invaders or gods that Odin was considered a chieftain of in the Prologue of Snorre's saga.

So far I’ve made two Odins and have another spare for merging.
As you know one Odin is the Norse deity while the other (Woden) is the ancestor of the Saxon kings. While I don’t want to have a whole raft of Odins I am thinking of a third Odin to sit between the two as a mortal ancestor of Norse kings (and perhaps also as a catch-all for anyone that does not belong with one of the other two), Saemingr is the profile that prompted me to consider this option. At this point I am not sure how many of the current children of Odin could potentially end up being moved to this extra profile, if it turns out to be only Saemingr I would think it more effort than it is worth.

My feeling is that while Saemingr’s genealogy is open to interpretation he appears to be a historical person while his “brothers”, like Thor or Hodr, are mythical so in a way Odin represents the point in the Tree where we jump from “reality” to “fairy tales”.

Currently Odin has the following children Yngvi Odinsson, King of Sweden; Sigar Odinsson, King in Hunaland; Sigrlami Odinsson, King of Gardariki; Weothelgeat; Winta Odinsson, King of Lindsey; Vegdagr; Meili; Guedolgeat; Cagles / Capur; Waddy; Casere; Sigi of France; Gauti, King of Götaland; Skjold Odinsson, King of Denmark; Víðarr Odinsson, of Asgard; Bragi; Höðr; Baeldaeg; Hermod; Týr; Váli Odinsson; Heimdallr and Thor « less

Immediately it looks to me that 9 or 10 of these are deities while of the other 13 I see 3 or 4 names that look to be Saxons so the other 10 or so would be candidates for a children of a new Odin.

I have some complicated thoughts about this, but I'm at a trade show this weekend so not much time to explain in depth.

Separating the Odins might be controversial but I think it has to be done. Some people might disagree.

I wouldn't separate by Norse versus Anglo-Saxon. I would separate by indigenous tradition versus later Christian modification.

That is, I would move to the kings of Troy / Noah line, which is a Christian interpolation, to its own unconnected tree. It's a clear fake that mostly repeats Thor's nicknames to create additional generations.

Creating a mortal Odin would be a perilous project. There is a very old that Odin was a man named Sigge Fridulfson who adopted the name Odin. There is also the project Thor Heyerdahl was working on at the time of his death to prove that Odin was a historical person who led his people to Scandinavia from the Sea of Azov. A mortal Odin on Geni could easily get bogged down in these and similar ideas. I'd want time to think about that.

For the sons of Odin, I think I would want to take the easy way out and using mainstream scholarship as a guide. We probably can't do better than the Wikipedia article on the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Odin

This article is conveniently divided into sections for the "gods" and the "ancestors of dynasties".

Once we get some backbone, we'll be disconnecting the famous fake Wessex line from Odin. That will eliminate the worst of the frauds and focus the remaining search where it belongs -- in Scandinavian sources.

Thor Heyerdahl's Search for Odin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakten_p%C3%A5_Odin

Variations on the line of Sceaf, supposed ancestor of Odin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sceafa

Variations on the Yngling descent (or non-descent) from Odin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngling

One more: http://www.wilmer-t.net/fornnorden/AncientNordic/HumanOdin.html#2206

Ok, now one more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_royal_genealogies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Odin was what started me thinking on this path, specifically in regard to what to do with Weothulgeot.
He is named on that wiki page but there are 3 different versions presented in just one short paragraph, no simple way to show that on Geni... perhaps cut the tree at him with note/link to Odin(s).

Weothulgeot or Wihtlæg. According to the genealogies in the Anglian collection, Weothulgeot was ancestor to the royal house of Mercia and the father of Wihtlæg. According to the Historia Brittonum, Weothulgeot was father of Weaga, who was father of Wihtlæg. But the two Anglo-Saxon Chronicle versions of this genealogy include neither Weothulgeot nor Weaga, but make Wihtlæg himself the son of Woden. In all versions, Wihtlæg is father of Wermund, father of Offa of Angel. According to the Old English poem Widsith, Offa ruled over the continental Angles. Saxo, though not mentioning Wihtlæg's parentage, introduces Wihtlæg as a Danish king named Wiglek, who was the slayer of Amleth (Hamlet).

"Eivind Skaldespiller is your 31st great uncle." Very cool

Two years later we know who his parents were?
dos años después sabemos quienes fueron sus padres ?