Beatrice (Lewknor) de Kempe - Has this been badly merged?

Don't quote me on this, but I believe they were half-sisters with the same name. The elder, born say about 1352 was daughter of Thomas and his 1st wife Joan d'Oyley. She married Ralph Roper, and died after 1390. The younger, born say about 1375, right around the time of her father's death, was daughter of Thomas and his 2nd wife Beatrice Hoo. She married Thomas Kempe.

Don't take my word for it, though. This is a line I struggled with for many years, and one I often changed as I consulted various sources.

Thanks Justin - will wait to see if I get any more responses.

She's my 19th GGM.

In revisions there is a merge - I think I'll try unmerging it and seeing whether the two profiles might support what you are suggesting Justin.

Having unmerged twice we have:
1.Beatrice d/o Sir Thomas de Lewknor & Beatrice de Hoo m to all three still
2 Beatrice d/o Sir Thomas de Lewknor mother n/k m to Ralph Roper
3. Beatrice d/o Roger de Lewknor Sheriff of Sussex & Barbara Katherine Bardoff m to Ralph Roper
I have found an enquiry on Google medieval forum further thoughts but no real clarifications:

Hi, I'm a new subscriber, and want to tell you I have enjoyed reading your
postings for the past several weeks. I have been able to use some of
information from them. So, thank you very much, for very well researched
information.
I am going to be posting several requests for information, and will be
starting with Beatrice Lewknor (b. ca. 1360/1363), daughter of Thomas Lewknor
(b. ca. 1374/1375), son of Roger Lewknor and his wife, Barbara Bardolph.

My question is who was the mother of Beatrice? Was it Joan D'Oylety,
daughter of Sir John D'Oyley, (Joan being the mother of Roger Lewknor, who
married Elizabeth Carew), or was Beatrice's mother a daughter of Thomas Hoo
and his wife, Isabel St. Leger?

In "Historical Southern Families, Vol. XX, Pg. 100-101, by John Bennett
Boddie, says, Sir Thomas Hoo, who was at Crecy and Calais, buried in St.
Alban's Abbey, married before June 16, 1335, Isabel, daughter and heir of Sir
John de St. Leger. They had a son, William, second and eldest surviving son,
who married Alice, daughter and heir of Sir Thomas de Omer, and their son
Thomas Hoo, Knight, was at Agincourt. He married ca. 1394, (1) Eleanor,
widow of Sir. Robert d'Ufford, and (2) Elizabeth Wychingham. A son of the
second marriage was Sir Thomas Hoo, whose daughter married Sir Thomas
Lewkenor, and their daughter Beatrice married Thomas Kempe of Olantigh (d.
1428). Well, or course Boddie had to be in error when he says that a son of
Thomas Hoo and his 2nd wife, Elizabeth Wychingham was the father of the wife
of Thomas Lewknor and mother of Beatrice. It's the wrong time frame. Boddie
had to have the Thomas Lewknors confused.

In DNB, Under "John Kempe" (1380?-1454), says that he was the 2nd son of
Thomas Kempe and his wife, Beatrix, daughter of Sir Thomas Lewknor. No name
is given for Beatrice's mother.

NEHGR, July, 1986, Pgs. 219-229, "Maternal Ancestry of Governor Thomas
Dudley, by F. N. Craig, gives the descent of the Hoo's, St. Leger's, etc.
The only child listed for Thomas Hoo and Isabel St. Leger was William Hoo,
(d. 1410). In this essay, it is stated that the 1st Robert Hoo, (d. 1310),
married Beatrice Andevill. Was Beatrice Lewknor named for Beatrice
Andeviil.?? Also Beatrice Lewknor named one of her children by Thomas Kempe,
Isabel. Was this for Isabel St. Leger? As stated above, Beatrice had a
son, John Kempe, who was the Archbishop of Canterbury. Was this child named
for John St. Leger, or John D'Oyley? In those times, it seemed like everyone
was named for someone else, so you can see why I think that there might be a
connection between Beatrice Lewknor and the Hoos.

I noticed in several of your postings, it was mentioned about "Pedigree of
the Lewknor Family", by William Durant Cooper, FSA, in Sussex Archaelogical
Collections, Vol. III, which unfortunately is not available in my area.
Could someone who is familiar with this article let me know if there is any
mention Beatrice's mother.

I understand also, that there is a Lewknor family pedigree in the Society
of Genealogists in London, England. Does anyone know anything about this?

Any help that anyone could give me would be very greatly appreicated.
Thank you very much.

Joan Burdyck

Click here to Reply

Adrian Channing

05/05/1999

Joan Burdyck wrote,
<snip>
-

>
> I am going to be posting several requests for information, and will be
> starting with Beatrice Lewknor (b. ca. 1360/1363), daughter of Thomas
Lewknor
> (b. ca. 1374/1375), son of Roger Lewknor and his wife, Barbara Bardolph.
>
<snip>
-

>
> I noticed in several of your postings, it was mentioned about
"Pedigree of
> the Lewknor Family", by William Durant Cooper, FSA, in Sussex
Archaelogical
> Collections, Vol. III, which unfortunately is not available in my area.
> Could someone who is familiar with this article let me know if there is
any
> mention Beatrice's mother.
>
This ref gives the issue of Sir Thomas Lewknor and Joane D'Oyley of Stoke
D'Oyley as i. John Lewknor (m Isabel Covert, ii Sir Roger (m Elizabeth
Carew) and iii. Margaret (m John Covert). There is no 2nd marriage of Sir
Thomas, nor any Beatrice in this, nor in the next few generations.

regards

Adrian (Surrey, UK) AChanning@CompuServe.Com

So, Looking at the dates of the three Beatrices it seems to me that there must have been two (at least)
1. born c1335 d/o Roger de Lewknor (who was born c1304) & Barbara Katherine Bardoff (b.1308)
2. born c1355. d/o Thomas de Lewknor (who was born c1341) but cannot be d/o Beatrice de Hoo (b 1354)!

I will make changes to reflect this and hope I am correct. If not we have a record of how I came to this result.

3 Beatrice de Lewknor profiles are now as follows:
Beatrice Kempe - Parentage and Spouse unknown although I wonder if she was wife of Thomas Steward who currently is connected as spouse of this Beatrice in addition to Thomas Kempe.

Beatrice Roper -

Daughter of Roger de Lewknor, Sheriff of Sussex and Barbara Katherine (Bardolf) Lewknor

Wife of Ralph Roper, of St. Dunstans

and
Beatrice Kempe

d/o Sir Thomas de Lewknor, Knight
Wife of Thomas Steward and Thomas de Kempe