Malcolm II MacHeth Jarl of Ross - Sources?

Not so good if it's the middle of the night there.... :-(

The advantage of being spread out across the globe is that usually somebody is awake!

Sharon, that sounds like good news. I struggled with that article for several days before I finally got it.
> until we hear why Woolf & Duncan thought differently.

I don't think they did think differently. The sentence is a bit misleading. Woolf and Duncan don't disagree with the identification in the sentence immediately preceding. They disagree with the popular identification described in the entire paragraph preceding.

This meaning becomes clear from the sentence immediately following -- both Woolf and Duncan have argued that the prisoner of Roxburgh and Malcolm mac Eth are two different people. They haven't explained their reasoning, so Ross is undertaking this paper to explain it.

Is something happening on Geni? - I've just had the entire project disappear while I was working on it, and all I get is Geni FAQ when I try to access previous links to it: http://www.geni.com/p…/Malcolm-MacHeth-vs-Malcolm-Alexandair-....

My text: "So this is the timeline I can piece together, with the profiles we know for definite hypertexted. 1115 - 1130: Áed, Mórmaer of Moray and/ or Mormaer of Ross,.." is still visible on Projects list - but no way to access the project?!!

A whole days' work in that!!! Maybe time to leave the building and wander off to the New Years' party early :-)

Oh no.

Hoping this comes back later.

Do you have the project ID?

So, we seem to have *three* guys, with three different fathers, making trouble at three(?) different times.

Malcolm mac Alaxandair, son of Alexander I but not by his official Queen Sybilla (possibly from an earlier marriage, possibly from no marriage), c. 1130-1134; imprisoned from 1134 to at least 1156.

Wimund (mac Uilliam?), possible bastard son of William fitz Duncan by unknown Cumbrian woman, c. 1140-1150; bribed with Furness and environs, but the populace stirred up against him (apparently his own arrogance worked against him too); kidnapped, blinded, castrated and turned over to the Scottish King (David I), who imprisoned him for a while and then banished him to Byland Abbey in Yorkshire, where he relived his glory days at garrulous length to anyone who would listen (including, apparently, William of Newburgh).

Malcolm MacHeth, possibly an actual son of Oengus of Moray, got crosswise of the Scottish Crown sometime prior to 1157, reconciled 1157 and bought off with a piece of Moray broken off and renamed as the "Earldom of Ross". It looks as though Malcolm didn't stay bought off, though, as in 1161 (after an uprising of "six earls" in 1160) the title Earl of Ross was granted to Floris III of Holland upon his marrying the King's sister Ada of Huntingdon. On the other hand, MacHeth is addressed as Earl of Ross in a royal writ c. 1160-1162 requiring him to protect and maintain the monks of Dunfermline. Malcolm died in 1168 and the Earldom of Ross went back into obscurity until c. the 1220s, when it was formally granted to the ferocious Ferchar mac in tSagairt, who had put an effective end to the MacHeths and routed their allies the MacWilliams in 1215.

The project seems to be back now. Yay!

Never a dull moment, really.

Mike rescued the project, which had had its name wiped: http://www.geni.com/projects/Malcolm-MacHeth-vs-Malcolm-MacAlexanda...

All that's left, as far as I can see, is to ratify the Malcolm MacHeths on the tree at the moment - and insert a link on the project for the one we decide is this guy:
1157: (Malcolm MacHeth was reconciled with the king of the Scots). Holyrood Chronicle (c1200 - 1355)

Discussion here: http://www.geni.com/discussions/152098?msg=1061397

I've deleted some of my earlier comments from this discussion at Sharon's request.

Eew that makes it sound as though I thought you were being rude:-)

Sharon didn't think I was being rude. I make this statement of my own free will, and not acting under any pressure.

And it would be more exciting if he'd said something rude :-)

Help we have two Donalds for the same person again: Donald mac Malcolm? not Donald MacEth?

Regarding Donald: Donald MacEth? We had removed him as a son of Malcolm MacEth, Earl of Ross because of this more updated research: https://www.geni.com/projects/Malcolm-MacEth-vs-Malcolm-MacAlexande... that suggested that he was a son of Malcolm MacAlexander. Noone has got hold of Cawley to tell him.

1153 (Somerled, king of the Hebrides and his nephews, the sons of Malcolm MacAlexandair, allied with themselves very many men, and rebelled against Máel Coluim IV mac Eanric, King of Scots, and disturbed and disquieted Scotland to a great extent.) Holyrood Chronicle (c1200 - 1355)

1156: (Donald mac Malcolm son of Malcolm MacAlexandair was captured at Whithorn and imprisoned with his father) Holyrood Chronicle (c1200 - 1355)

1156: (Donald mac Malcolm son of Malcolm MacAlexandair was captured at Whithorn and imprisoned in the keep of Roxburgh with his father.) The Chronicle of Melrose (- 1270)

1157: (Malcolm MacEth, Earl of Ross was reconciled with the king of the Scots). Holyrood Chronicle (c1200 - 1355)

So - Current research suggests that Donald was actually the son of Malcolm MacAlexander - the brother in law of Somerled - and the prisoner of Roxburgh with his father.

cf also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacHeths

cf https://www.geni.com/discussions/220569

After things get cleaned up as to current thinking and research, it all needs to get locked down, cause there will be more Donalds showing up again.

Good point. I think I've done that everywhere - but please lock any relationships I've overlooked.

cf Malcolm MacAlexandair